• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Wizard of Oz Mass

Status
Not open for further replies.

Miss Shelby

Legend
Feb 10, 2002
31,286
3,286
59
✟114,636.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
RhetorTheo said:
What would be worse: a priest holding a Wizard of Oz mass, or a priest holding a tridentine mass without an indult?
I think both would be considered disobedience.

But with these clown masses and such I believe what you have is an attempt to reach people with a 'feel good' (hey at least they're coming to Church now, right?)attitude and I think the reason that there doesn't seem to be as much concern over it as we'd like is because we live in an era that caters to that kind of thinking.

I mean who wants to attend a boring ole Latin Mass?

I am being facetious to make a point. I wouldn't say the motivations of the priests doing this are necessarily bad, they could genuinely feel this is a way to get more people interested in faith. I'm not trying to condone either scenario, just maybe trying to offer an explanation.

Michelle
 
Upvote 0

Epiphanygirl

Don't De-Rock Me
Oct 6, 2004
7,016
977
Behind you :)
✟11,873.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
um, how do we truly even know if this actually happened? Not saying it didn't...not saying things like this don't even happen. I just abhore second hand internet posted things like this.
How many of us here have experienced something like this? I haven't.
If these "protestant innovations" are seeping in we have only ourselves to blame.....either by not caring, not being involved in our parish, not knowing our Faith and what is acceptable and not acceptable, etc....
Is it a big deal.........yes................but I don't think it is commonplace either.
 
Upvote 0

Sisof8

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2005
1,498
66
41
Virginia
Visit site
✟17,011.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
im sorry y'all... but i have to ask

Why is everyone so upset? Why is one mass where they have a "theme" in order to give them a association for their journey of Lent wrong?

I realize Mass is The Eucharist and we are to treat it with reverence and respect... but is one Mass where they dress up and do all of this decorating and stuff to connect it all...wrong?

Why? Where is it stated this would be wrong?

Would it be wrong if they decorated the lobby of the church, but it never entered the chapel?

confused....
 
Upvote 0

WarriorAngel

I close my eyes and see you smile
Site Supporter
Apr 11, 2005
73,951
10,060
United States Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟597,590.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Sisof8, it removes the holy prayeful meditative moments into a stage performance.

Its just...:sorry: Wrong.

I cant explain it, but it seems in defference to the solemnity of the season.

:hug:
 
Upvote 0

Miss Shelby

Legend
Feb 10, 2002
31,286
3,286
59
✟114,636.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Sisof8 said:
im sorry y'all... but i have to ask

Why is everyone so upset? Why is one mass where they have a "theme" in order to give them a association for their journey of Lent wrong?

I realize Mass is The Eucharist and we are to treat it with reverence and respect... but is one Mass where they dress up and do all of this decorating and stuff to connect it all...wrong?

Why? Where is it stated this would be wrong?

Would it be wrong if they decorated the lobby of the church, but it never entered the chapel?

confused....
There is a document that states what ligurgical guidlines are, I don't have it handy, Proud2bCatholic would know, but I'm sure this would be considered an abuse of those guidlines.

Michelle
 
Upvote 0

QuantaCura

Rejoice always.
Aug 17, 2005
9,164
958
43
✟29,262.00
Faith
Catholic
Sisof8 said:
im sorry y'all... but i have to ask

Why is everyone so upset? Why is one mass where they have a "theme" in order to give them a association for their journey of Lent wrong?

I realize Mass is The Eucharist and we are to treat it with reverence and respect... but is one Mass where they dress up and do all of this decorating and stuff to connect it all...wrong?

Why? Where is it stated this would be wrong?

Would it be wrong if they decorated the lobby of the church, but it never entered the chapel?

confused....

Mass is the re-presentation of Calvary. Wizard of Oz characters and costumes are not appropriate for that context. The focus of the Mass is also diluted by making it into a costume party/performance. Mass is not just a fraternal banquet--it is a solemn sacrifice.
 
Upvote 0

AMDG

Tenderized for Christ
May 24, 2004
25,362
1,286
75
Pacific Northwest, United States
✟54,522.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Mister Emu said:
This brings up a question, to me, what exactly is a liturgical abuse? More specifically, what is the threshold of different way of having Mass and abuse?

You might want to read Redemptionis Sacramentum. Believe the document will give you an idea and even has a list of liturgical abuses. (It will also show that it is our duty to report such abuses.) The Mass belongs to the entire Catholic Church. It is not the property of one person (or group of persons) to have a different way of celebrating it. We Catholics have a right to a valid Mass that is properly celebrated.
 
Upvote 0

Aaron-Aggie

Legend
Jun 26, 2003
14,024
423
Visit site
✟38,923.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
anawim said:
Apparently these pictures are from 2003. The priest was forced into retirement, and is now replaced by an orthodox priest.
Good then we can go back to trusting our Bishops and the holy spirt to do the right thing and all move on to something more imporatnat like adoration :)
 
Upvote 0

Miss Shelby

Legend
Feb 10, 2002
31,286
3,286
59
✟114,636.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
anawim said:
Apparently these pictures are from 2003. The priest was forced into retirement, and is now replaced by an orthodox priest.
Wouldn't it be gnarly if God took all of the prayers generated from this thread and retroactively applied it to this situation. Now THERE'S something to think about.

Michelle
 
Upvote 0

Filia Mariae

Senior Contributor
Jul 27, 2003
8,228
735
USA
Visit site
✟12,006.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Sisof8 said:
im sorry y'all... but i have to ask

Why is everyone so upset? Why is one mass where they have a "theme" in order to give them a association for their journey of Lent wrong?

Its not the theme that's a problem, but its insertion into the liturgy. We receive the liturgy from God, we can't just make it up. Otherwise its a product of our work, not God's. Instead of being taken up into the heavenly worship, we modify worship to make it how we want it.

I realize Mass is The Eucharist and we are to treat it with reverence and respect... but is one Mass where they dress up and do all of this decorating and stuff to connect it all...wrong?

Yes. Costumes and props are a big no no. Granted, we don't have the text of the homily, but I would bet it wasn't particularly focused on the Gospel but on the Wizard of Oz. The homily should explain the Scriptures and the doctrines they teach, as well as lead one to contemplation of the Eucharist. I don't think that's what happened here.

Why? Where is it stated this would be wrong?

It looks like others have already given you the names of the documents, but if you want a whole book Spirit of the Liturgy (Raztinger) is a good place to start.

Would it be wrong if they decorated the lobby of the church, but it never entered the chapel?

confused....

Questionable....I think its a bad idea. If they had this as a theme for religious ed, that would be different but it shouldn't be a part of the liturgy.

Hope that helps.:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: plainswolf
Upvote 0

anawim

Senior Veteran
Aug 24, 2004
3,105
183
71
NY suburbs
Visit site
✟27,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
Miss Shelby said:
Wouldn't it be gnarly if God took all of the prayers generated from this thread and retroactively applied it to this situation. Now THERE'S something to think about.

Michelle

I do all the time! It was a profound revelation to me when I realized that prayers don't have an expiration date, and that prayers today can be applied retroactively.
 
Upvote 0

Wolseley

Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu
Feb 5, 2002
21,883
6,555
64
By the shores of Gitchee-Goomee
✟357,221.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Sisof8 said:
im sorry y'all... but i have to ask

Why is everyone so upset? Why is one mass where they have a "theme" in order to give them a association for their journey of Lent wrong?

I realize Mass is The Eucharist and we are to treat it with reverence and respect... but is one Mass where they dress up and do all of this decorating and stuff to connect it all...wrong?

Why? Where is it stated this would be wrong?

Would it be wrong if they decorated the lobby of the church, but it never entered the chapel?

confused....
My take on this: the Mass is a continuation of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross for our salvation.

So, should we have pictures in our churches or homes with Mary standing at the foot of the Cross, dressed as Dorothy? St. John beside her as the Cowardly Lion? Maybe some flying monkeys overhead, as angels? The Centurion can be the Tin Woodman, the two thieves can be Munchkins, and Jesus on the Cross can be the Wizard.

See why such things are not appropriate for Mass? :)

As for trying to change the way the priest does things, I only tried that once, at an abuse-ridden parish I was attending at the time. I was given a smirking, condescending attitude with the comment that "Well, you know, we have paid liturgical experts, with degrees in liturgy who attend to our liturgies, and you, of course are a (sniff, sniff) police officer, and I don't know whether you have any kind of degree...."

"I have a Bachelor's degree."

"Yes, well, laymen do have opinions, of course, but perhaps you might do better to try to get into the spirit of what we're trying to do here, rather than complaining about it. Vatican II did call for much reform...."

"Can you show the specific document from the council which authorizes this, Father?"

(immediate hardening of the look on the priest's face, automatic defensive posture---replies are shorter and terser)

"I have several appointments this afternoon, so you of course understand that I do not have time to sift through every document from the council to find what you think you're looking for. Thank you for coming in and voicing your concerns, (walking me to the door) and we'll definitely put your suggestions to prayerful consideration."

Me out, door closed, seeya, come back some time when you can't stay so long.

And from that point forward, coolness on the part of the priest, since I was an obvious troublemaker, and outright hostility from both the "liturgical musicians" and the head of the "liturgy and worship committee".

So, hasta la vista, Padre, I went to a different parish. (shrug) Sometimes there is nothing else you can do.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.