Wives submitting to their husbands judgement made in love

IamwhoIam4now · Jun 8, 2012

2000 years since Christ and the insecurity of men is still perverting the Word. All you have to do with questions like these is simply ask yourself, "Am I loving my wife as I love myself?". If you can't hold yourself to the same standards, the answer is no. If your wife can't tell you not to go somewhere, it makes no difference how "lovingly" you tell her the same. It's still not loving your wife as yourself. It's just a perversion of scripture to retain control over her. For men who struggle with this, give your insecurities to God.

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

IamwhoIam4now said:
2000 years since Christ and the insecurity of men is still perverting the Word. All you have to do with questions like these is simply ask yourself, "Am I loving my wife as I love myself?". If you can't hold yourself to the same standards, the answer is no. If your wife can't tell you not to go somewhere, it makes no difference how "lovingly" you tell her the same. It's still not loving your wife as yourself. It's just a perversion of scripture to retain control over her. For men who struggle with this, give your insecurities to God.

Actually, the scripture reads that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. That kind of love goes beyond loving someone as you love yourself. It is deeper, more unconditional, more sacrificial. It is a pretty tall order, but I have seen husbands love like this - my own husband is a prime example.

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

IamwhoIam4now · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
Actually, the scripture reads that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. That kind of love goes beyond loving someone as you love yourself. It is deeper, more unconditional, more sacrificial. It is a pretty tall order, but I have seen husbands love like this - my own husband is a prime example.

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

I was actually saving that tid bit for anyone who may have objected to my post. . Thank you though!

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

IamwhoIam4now said:
I was actually saving that tid bit for anyone who may have objected to my post. . Thank you though!

Woohoo! We are an awesome team!

In the Spirit!

IamwhoIam4now · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
Woohoo! We are an awesome team!

In the Spirit!

God Bless!

katautumn · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
What you are describing is abuse of authority. It illustrates men who do not take their God given role seriously and with sobriety.

I am submissive to my husband. He is kind, loving and I am totally free. I am not his slave and he does not boss me around. He does not make selfish or unreasonable demands on me.

We discuss things openly and freely, he seeks my input on every household decision, about his career, about everything. We are a team, a partnership, yet I look to him for guidance when I struggle with a spiritual issue. He encourages me, helps me, leads me and helps me follow God's lead.

God is FIRST in our marriage. My husband takes his role as the head very seriously. I also will remind him when he does something that takes him out of his walk with God. We counsel each other, but God appointed him as my head and I respect that.

But it is not anything like what is being described in this forum. It is very free, very respectful, very loving and very mutual.

The way you describe your marriage sounds like mutual submission (as per Ephesians 5:21), not wife-only submission. Wife-only submission not only means the wife defers to her husband on big decisions when they disagree, but that the wife usually has no place to be her husband's spiritual counselor in the same manner he is called to be hers. Most popular books written on wife-only submission, from an evangelical Christian perspective, state emphatically that the wife is to never inform her husband when he has done wrong, or chasten him in any way.

The umbrella of authority works like this God>Husband>Wife>Children. And in most cases of wife-only submission, the wife isn't in any particular authority over her children, as she is to defer to her husband in matters of childrearing as well. The people who believe in wife-only submission purport that women are the weaker vessel, and as such we are wholly untrustworthy when it comes to vital spiritual and household decisions. She can't be trusted to disciple her children. She can't be trusted with the finances. She certainly can't be trusted on matters as important as selecting a church for her family or where they should live.

Wife-only submission proponents will claim, "it's not about being a doormat" and yet their books will state that a woman is to never act as her husband's conscience, by telling him things like, "smoking is bad for you" or "you really shouldn't be viewing pornography, especially as a Christian husband and father". She is to roll over, submit, pray, and then God will somehow work everything out. If nothing else, she will have peace in knowing she's doing God's will by playing out some alleged God-ordained role in her marriage.

Romanseight2005 · Jun 8, 2012

KatAutumn said:
The way you describe your marriage sounds like mutual submission (as per Ephesians 5:21), not wife-only submission. Wife-only submission not only means the wife defers to her husband on big decisions when they disagree, but that the wife usually has no place to be her husband's spiritual counselor in the same manner he is called to be hers. Most popular books written on wife-only submission, from an evangelical Christian perspective, state emphatically that the wife is to never inform her husband when he has done wrong, or chasten him in any way.

The umbrella of authority works like this God>Husband>Wife>Children. And in most cases of wife-only submission, the wife isn't in any particular authority over her children, as she is to defer to her husband in matters of childrearing as well. The people who believe in wife-only submission purport that women are the weaker vessel, and as such we are wholly untrustworthy when it comes to vital spiritual and household decisions. She can't be trusted to disciple her children. She can't be trusted with the finances. She certainly can't be trusted on matters as important as selecting a church for her family or where they should live.

Wife-only submission proponents will claim, "it's not about being a doormat" and yet their books will state that a woman is to never act as her husband's conscience, by telling him things like, "smoking is bad for you" or "you really shouldn't be viewing pornography, especially as a Christian husband and father". She is to roll over, submit, pray, and then God will somehow work everything out. If nothing else, she will have peace in knowing she's doing God's will by playing out some alleged God-ordained role in her marriage.

Well this sure doesn't line up with the Proverbs 31 wife, now does it? Her husband trusts her.

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

KatAutumn said:
The way you describe your marriage sounds like mutual submission (as per Ephesians 5:21), not wife-only submission. Wife-only submission not only means the wife defers to her husband on big decisions when they disagree, but that the wife usually has no place to be her husband's spiritual counselor in the same manner he is called to be hers. Most popular books written on wife-only submission, from an evangelical Christian perspective, state emphatically that the wife is to never inform her husband when he has done wrong, or chasten him in any way.

The umbrella of authority works like this God>Husband>Wife>Children. And in most cases of wife-only submission, the wife isn't in any particular authority over her children, as she is to defer to her husband in matters of childrearing as well. The people who believe in wife-only submission purport that women are the weaker vessel, and as such we are wholly untrustworthy when it comes to vital spiritual and household decisions. She can't be trusted to disciple her children. She can't be trusted with the finances. She certainly can't be trusted on matters as important as selecting a church for her family or where they should live.

Wife-only submission proponents will claim, "it's not about being a doormat" and yet their books will state that a woman is to never act as her husband's conscience, by telling him things like, "smoking is bad for you" or "you really shouldn't be viewing pornography, especially as a Christian husband and father". She is to roll over, submit, pray, and then God will somehow work everything out. If nothing else, she will have peace in knowing she's doing God's will by playing out some alleged God-ordained role in her marriage.

Ugh! It sounds as if the people who wrote those books have absolutely no clue what true submission is or what a husband's role is. In order for it to work, both people have to take their God appointed role seriously.

My husband looks to me to support him, to encourage him and to remind him if he steps where he should not.

At the same time, I look to him to lead me and protect me. He is supposed to tell me if I am doing something that is off of God's path. It is his job as my husband. He is responsible for me and for my salvation.

CounselorForChrist · Jun 8, 2012

My husband looks to me to support him, to encourage him and to remind him if he steps where he should not.

At the same time, I look to him to lead me and protect me. He is supposed to tell me if I am doing something that is off of God's path. It is his job as my husband. He is responsible for me and for my salvation.

Wow I love that! Thats how me and my fiance are.

TheDag · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
He is responsible for me and for my salvation.

Perhaps there is another way you could phrase this to make it clearer what your saying. Just doesn't seem to fit in with biblical instruction that we are each to work out our own salvation. I was going to respons to an earlier post of yours but before I had a chance you had posted another reply that clarified things. So i think maybe it is the same here you just didn't explain things as well as you could have. Certainly something I struggle with!

katautumn · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
Ugh! It sounds as if the people who wrote those books have absolutely no clue what true submission is or what a husband's role is. In order for it to work, both people have to take their God appointed role seriously.

My husband looks to me to support him, to encourage him and to remind him if he steps where he should not.

At the same time, I look to him to lead me and protect me. He is supposed to tell me if I am doing something that is off of God's path. It is his job as my husband. He is responsible for me and for my salvation.

I agree with everything you wrote except for the part I put in bold font. How is a husband responsible for his wife's salvation? If that is the case, there are quite a few Christian ladies out there (I'd hazard a guess the majority of them) who are in a perilous position either due to their husband's total lack of belief or not being on the same place in his walk with the Lord as his wife.

I became a Christian before my husband did. He was not responsible for leading me to Christ or making Him the center of my life. In fact, my husband says if it weren't for me, he would have probably never set foot in a church again. With that said, I am not responsible for his salvation. The Holy Spirit is. In fact, 1 Peter 3:7 states that the man and woman are joint heirs in eternal life.

I think we start getting into really shaky territory when we start claiming one partner in the marriage is more or less fit to hear from the Holy Spirit, especially when we begin to tell our spouse we've heard from God on a particular matter involving them. I believe the Holy Spirit speaks to each person as an individual and that we, alone, are responsible for our own salvation. We are to be disciples to one another, yes, but my husband cannot force me into maintaining my Christian walk. Hold me accountable? Absolutely. Encourage me to grow in the knowledge of God and His Word? Yes. But he cannot shoulder the burden of my entire spiritual state.

Naomanos · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
It is his job as my husband. He is responsible for me and for my salvation.

Mind showing me the scripture that states the above?

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

xfreakazoidx said:
Wow I love that! Thats how me and my fiance are.

That is so wonderful! Keep God at the center of your marriage and you can't go wrong. Follow the scripture and know your roles.

I know I talk about this author a lot, but she is awesome. She has a book on marriage that you and your fiancee might be interested in reading.

7 Steps to a Godly Marriage by Stephanie A. Mayberry

It is like a Bible study. You read the chapter, review the scripture and work through the questions. It is really good. It is paperback and Kindle.

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

KatAutumn said:
I agree with everything you wrote except for the part I put in bold font. How is a husband responsible for his wife's salvation? If that is the case, there are quite a few Christian ladies out there (I'd hazard a guess the majority of them) who are in a perilous position either due to their husband's total lack of belief or not being on the same place in his walk with the Lord as his wife.

I became a Christian before my husband did. He was not responsible for leading me to Christ or making Him the center of my life. In fact, my husband says if it weren't for me, he would have probably never set foot in a church again. With that said, I am not responsible for his salvation. The Holy Spirit is. In fact, 1 Peter 3:7 states that the man and woman are joint heirs in eternal life.

I think we start getting into really shaky territory when we start claiming one partner in the marriage is more or less fit to hear from the Holy Spirit, especially when we begin to tell our spouse we've heard from God on a particular matter involving them. I believe the Holy Spirit speaks to each person as an individual and that we, alone, are responsible for our own salvation. We are to be disciples to one another, yes, but my husband cannot force me into maintaining my Christian walk. Hold me accountable? Absolutely. Encourage me to grow in the knowledge of God and His Word? Yes. But he cannot shoulder the burden of my entire spiritual state.

The husband is responsible and it is his duty, given to him by God. That does not mean that a man will do what he is supposed to. It does not mean that he will fulfill the role God has given him.

Maybe it is clearer to say he is responsible for his wife the way a pastor is responsible for his congregation. The husband's pastor is his spiritual authority.

But many men do not fulfill the role given to them by God. That is what happens in marriages that are unequally yoked.

Then the wife is responsible for praying for her husband and setting a Godly example for her husband. The scripture says that through what she does her husband might be saved.

What is described in scripture, what I explained above is the, for lack of a better term, "ideal" Godly marriage. Sadly, many, many marriages do not hit the mark.

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

Naomanos said:
Mind showing me the scripture that states the above?

There are many scriptures that say the husband is responsible for his wife, he is her head (Ephesians 5:23), he is to love her as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:28-31), he is to be considerate, tender and kind to her (Colossians 3:19), he is to honor her (1 Peter 3:7), be gentle (Ephesians 4:32), manage his own household (1Timothy 3:4-5).

But it is the scripture that shows him to be the head, the authority over her (Genesis 3:16 and Ephesians 5:23) that encompasses his duties as her spiritual authority as his pastor is his spiritual authority.

That is the Biblical structure of marriage. The pastor is also the spiritual authority over the wife, but her first line authority is her husband and the husband's authority is his pastor.

It is much like an office where there is a branch chief under a director. A supervisor will answer the the branch chief and he answers to the director. The supervisor answers to the branch chief and the director, but answers to the branch chief first.

It is a big responsibility for a man, but that is the role God gave men. Unfortunately, many do not live up to that. In fact, many reject it, reject the scripture. It is sad.

seeingeyes · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
It is a big responsibility for a man, but that is the role God gave men. Unfortunately, many do not live up to that. In fact, many reject it, reject the scripture. It is sad.

So where does that leave women? Under the headship of Christ.

...I'm not understanding how that is unfortunate, though...

AmbryRye · Jun 8, 2012

seeingeyes said:
So where does that leave women? Under the headship of Christ.

...I'm not understanding how that is unfortunate, though...

It is unfortunate that so many people reject scripture and reject God's plan, particularly His plan for marriage.

When the man will not fulfill his role, then the woman is under the authority of her pastor.

seeingeyes · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
It is unfortunate that so many people reject scripture and reject God's plan, particularly His plan for marriage.

When the man will not fulfill his role, then the woman is under the authority of her pastor.

According to...

Romanseight2005 · Jun 8, 2012

Kat, maybe you should post your testimony here?

Naomanos · Jun 8, 2012

AmbryRye said:
There are many scriptures that say the husband is responsible for his wife, he is her head (Ephesians 5:23), he is to love her as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:28-31), he is to be considerate, tender and kind to her (Colossians 3:19), he is to honor her (1 Peter 3:7), be gentle (Ephesians 4:32), manage his own household (1Timothy 3:4-5).

But it is the scripture that shows him to be the head, the authority over her (Genesis 3:16 and Ephesians 5:23) that encompasses his duties as her spiritual authority as his pastor is his spiritual authority.

That is the Biblical structure of marriage. The pastor is also the spiritual authority over the wife, but her first line authority is her husband and the husband's authority is his pastor.

It is much like an office where there is a branch chief under a director. A supervisor will answer the the branch chief and he answers to the director. The supervisor answers to the branch chief and the director, but answers to the branch chief first.

It is a big responsibility for a man, but that is the role God gave men. Unfortunately, many do not live up to that. In fact, many reject it, reject the scripture. It is sad.

Thing is though that none of those Scriptures state that the husband is responsible for the wife's salvation.

As stated before, each person is to work out.their own salvation.

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