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Wives submitting to Husbands-- how?

LinkH

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I was reading through a Bible study guide that couple put together for a night program Bible study program that has a huge number of participants in this area. I was looking at the marriage section. It got to the topic of wives submitting to husbands. This isn't a quote, but this was more or less the gist

Yes, wives are supposed to submit to their husbands. This verse has been used to club women over the head with for a long time. But what a man has to do is a lot greater than that. He has to love his wife like Christ loves the church...

What bothered me about this is that it glossed over the whole issue of women submitting to their husbands, downplaying its importance. I didn't see any teaching on how to carry this out.

I grew up in church, and whenever this topic comes up in the various churches throughout the US I've been in, it seems like the preacher almost always says something along the lines of this verse being used to club women with, and how men have to love their wives. It seems like no one takes the verse as important and teaches on how to apply it. They just gloss over it and de-emphasize it. I don't recall any teaching on what it looks like to have wives submitting to husbands in marriage. Since such a concept is somewhat alien to us, I believe Christians need instruction on it.

Submission is an unpopular word. I admit it isn't my favorite word or concept. I did some cross cultural research. One of the big values surveys shows that 'submission' is an important cultural value in some cultures, but not in others. In the western world, the US at least, it is not highly valued. Submission to governors, etc. is not considered important. We have a problem with it.

I believe this is something we need teaching on. We need our church leaders to teach on it. Older women need to teach younger women. How many put submitting to their husbands into practice? We all know that men not loving their wives properly and not leading is a problem in our society.

Here is a verse to consider:
Ephesians 5
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
(NIV)


Here are my questions:
Wives, how do you submit yourselves to your husbands? Specifically, how does this submission manifest itself? What specifically do you do or not do? What advice would you give to other women

Husbands, how do your wives submit to you?

What about people whose mothers submitted to their husbands? Can you share testimonies about that?

How can churches teach on this topic to help women, and men, appreciate and obey this instruction, so that they can obey it to please the Lord and have healthier marriages and a more fulfilling Christian walk?

What is a husband's role in helping his wife fulfill this command? What should his vision be for his marriage in this regard and how can he lovingly help his wife grow and/or maintain her walk in this area?
 

JRSut1000

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I just originated a topic on the issue of submission yesterday. I do agree, it's a topic that just rubs most women the wrong way. And it is often used as a condition statement. Wives submit, but you husbands had better love your wives because this is more important! Is it? Isn't BOTH important? I think men have been addressed enough on this issue and it's time to touch that dreaded topic at it's very core.

Speaking of core, the core 'how' of submission is the heart. One can obey, but it doesn't mean they are submitted. The practicality of submission is a little tricky as every marriage is slightly different. Submission first of all is not blind as another suggested in a different thread. This is a given, but it doesn't give us the right to throw submission out the window. I Peter emphasizes that in submitting and being like Sarah, we shouldn't be afraid.

The Scriptures were created for imperfect people, God's guidelines are for imperfect people. No husband is perfectly loving and certainly no woman is perfect either. But it doesn't mean that a husband shouldn't try to love or that a woman shouldn't try to submit. Both are out of love for each other, but God created men and women differently and it's because of these differences (and the fact they we are human), He has given us instruction concerning family life.

I for one need all the help I can get and to ignore the instruction that's there would be completely foolish.
 
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JRSut1000

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I know I didn't answer each question fully, that's almost impossible while watching my baby girl try to tear up all the electronics in the room. But I will admit this, I've been thinking about the topic a lot the last few days and I've raised a lot of internal questions. I'm not questioning whether the Scriptures pertain to women today. But I am questioning 'what does this look like practically and in my marriage? Am I actually doing this now and what can I do better and what is too far?' That's the questions I'm asking myself and I'm totally willing to bounce back and forth ideas with other like-minded ladies!
 
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JaneFW

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Here are my questions:
Wives, how do you submit yourselves to your husbands? Specifically, how does this submission manifest itself? What specifically do you do or not do? What advice would you give to other women

I don't. I did, and he didn't want me to. He didn't like it. He doesn't agree with it.

Therefore, my advice to other women would be to do whatever works for their marriage, and their husband.
 
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JaneFW

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I submit myself to any decision that he has more knowledge or experience. Of course, we still discuss it before hand but it's just to get an idea of our needs.

When we are about to make a decision about something, we talk about it. If we cannot agree, we compromise. To consistently submit to his every decision would imply inferiority on my part.
^^^ this too.
 
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c1ners

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When I think of submission this is what I'm thinking of:

The husband and wife "both" discuss any concerns with each other. If something gets disagreed upon, the last answer should go to the husband. However, before claiming to know it all, the husband should either take it to God in prayer or make darn well that he does know it all. It isn't an excuse to get your way all the time. And if it is used that way, the wife has every right to stop submitting to her husband and to submit to the will of God instead.

If it's used right, submission is a good thing. Some people take it a little too far. Both men and women. To me it's nothing more then repect and common sense.
 
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JaneFW

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Both spouses are to love and respect and submit to each other. I believe in the Bible as a whole, and there is no getting out of the command to love, because it is commanded time and time again that we are to love each other. It's not conditional upon anything. It's a requirement.
 
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Everlasting33

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So then it IS conditional? Maybe husbands should only love their wives if the wives submit? Technically, one could use this same logic right?

I think its far "healthier" to not look at it like man=love, woman=submit and just see two individuals who must do both for a healthy marriage. My favorite marriage book, "7 Principles of making marriage work," highlights the importance of compromise and I think its far harder to do that than "well, he's the man let him make the decision."
 
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JRSut1000

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No where in the Bible does it command men to submit to their wives. It just isn't there. Even when it comes to the "submit to one another", there is still a specific verse targeting wives to submit to husbands as to God and husbands to love wives as God loved the church.

Now using the illustration of GOd and the church, does God submit to the church or does the church submit to His leaderhsip?
 
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JaneFW

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No where in the Bible does it command men to submit to their wives. It just isn't there. Even when it comes to the "submit to one another", there is still a specific verse targeting wives to submit to husbands as to God and husbands to love wives as God loved the church.

Now using the illustration of GOd and the church, does God submit to the church or does the church submit to His leaderhsip?
Ephesians 5:21: Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ

Does that not include husbands and wives?

There are lots of scriptures throughout the whole Bible commanding love and respect and equality. Picking on one single scripture and deciding that is the one scripture that absolutely must be obeyed in marriage just seems counter productive.

And the weird thing is that if he doesn't want submission, then you have to submit to him by not submitting. :cool:
 
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JRSut1000

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"Wives, how do you submit yourselves to your husbands? Specifically, how does this submission manifest itself? What specifically do you do or not do? What advice would you give to other women?"

In returning to the original post and this question, I'll respond best I can. One area that I'm actually really strong on when it comes to this topic is submitting to my husband as the spiritual head/leader of our home. He teaches me the Scriptures and I ask him questions privately at home as the Bible teaches. I do what I can to help him be the spiritual leader in ways that I know is helpful to him. I can type faster than he can, so often I'll type up his out-loud thoughts or whatever he needs me to type up for him. He works on sermons sometimes and is currently writing a book. I love to help him!

When it comes to decision-making, I admit that I could do better on this area. I do NOT believe that submitting means saying nothing. What kind of help-meet would I be if I never gave my opinion or suggestions? But it's the attitude of submission and being a helpmeet that is key. It's the way I approach him and discuss the matter that makes a difference. I believe it should be done in a way that still honors his leadership role. Just like an employee wouldn't barge in and say "hey, you really should be doing THIS" but rather suggests in such a way that would help the company. It's a similar concept. I chose my husband to be the head over me because he and I see this as Scriptural. I would not have married a man that I didn't respect enough to submit to his leadership. That's another reason picking the right marriage partner is so important! It's a pretty big deal!

I have to go for now, my baby is very fussy today. Hopefully I'll be back soon!
 
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dorig59

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JRS, when you say this: "He teaches me the Scriptures and I ask him questions privately at home as the Bible teaches," are you referring to the Scripture where it says that a wife should be quiet in church and if she has questions to ask her husband at home? Because if you are, that Scripture does not mean what it says at face value. And being a Torah Observant, Messianic person, I'm kind of surprised you don't know this.

During the time when this Scripture was written -- and I don't know if things are still like this, I know nothing of modern Jewish culture -- the women and the men would sit on different sides or areas of the temple, structure, wherever they were at. There was a mens section and a womens section. So something that had started occuring in this particular church was that the women were getting chatty during the service, and they would call out to their husbands, "Hey Harry, what does he mean by that?" So the author of this Scripture was pointing out simply a very practical issue. Be quiet in church, if you have a question for your husband, ask him after you get home, not during the service.

Now if you and your husband want to handle things a certain way in your marriage like with him teaching you the Scriptures or whatever, that's certainly fine. But I don't like it when people misunderstand this Scripture because they don't know what was going on at the time it was written.
 
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Everlasting33

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. He teaches me the Scriptures and I ask him questions privately at home as the Bible teaches.

I realize that every marriage is different but this saddens me. It implies that the male brain is superior to the female brain, especially when it comes to discerning Scripture. She has the questions (ignorance), he has the answers (knowledge).
 
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dallasapple

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My husand would have preffered I "submitted" to sex on tap 24/7...the rest?He doesnt want to decide because he didnt want to be the one to blame if it was a bad mistake..Im not the "submissive" type anyway so thats worked out..He married the wrong girl if thats what he had been looking for..(Im more exciting this way LOL)

But I agree with some here...as far as Im concerned it IS conditional..because the submit verse(even though I dont even think it means what many think it does)..was written with the ASSUMPTION that the husband WAS loving her as Christ loves the church..there is no getting around that..

Also I consider heavily the times the Bible was written in as well..women were considered inferior to men(by society in general)..there are no if ands or butts about it..and women were completely dependent on a man for her survival it woudl hav been for her benefit to be obedient to a man for her own protoection....wether it be her father ..her brother..her BIL..her husband..some man had to take care of her..she had LITTLE freedoms..so it might have been dangerous for her to NOT be submissive..Heck they were stoning women to death in the street by mobs for adultery.. sheesh use your noggin!

Slaves were also supposed to obey their masters..there are no more slaves..and women are no longer considered underclass to men...therefore the "man the ruler woman the obedient" is a completely unesessesarry dynamic for todays society..

If some people like it that way ???If it works and it makes them feel like better wives or better husbands go for it! More power to you ..Its hard to be happy these days and marriage is hard..so if thats one way you agree I think its awesome for you !

Dallas
 
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chaz345

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My husand would have preffered I "submitted" to sex on tap 24/7...the rest?He doesnt want to decide because he didnt want to be the one to blame if it was a bad mistake..Im not the "submissive" type anyway so thats worked out..He married the wrong girl if thats what he had been looking for..(Im more exciting this way LOL)

But I agree with some here...as far as Im concerned it IS conditional..because the submit verse(even though I dont even think it means what many think it does)..was written with the ASSUMPTION that the husband WAS loving her as Christ loves the church..there is no getting around that..

Also I consider heavily the times the Bible was written in as well..women were considered inferior to men(by society in general)..there are no if ands or butts about it..and women were completely dependent on a man for her survival it woudl hav been for her benefit to be obedient to a man for her own protoection....wether it be her father ..her brother..her BIL..her husband..some man had to take care of her..she had LITTLE freedoms..so it might have been dangerous for her to NOT be submissive..Heck they were stoning women to death in the street by mobs for adultery.. sheesh use your noggin!

Slaves were also supposed to obey their masters..there are no more slaves..and women are no longer considered underclass to men...therefore the "man the ruler woman the obedient" is a completely unesessesarry dynamic for todays society..

If some people like it that way ???If it works and it makes them feel like better wives or better husbands go for it! More power to you ..Its hard to be happy these days and marriage is hard..so if thats one way you agree I think its awesome for you !

Dallas

If it were conditional it would have been worded that way. Here's a question though. Is the command to husbands to love as Christ loved the church conditional upon her submitting?
 
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dallasapple

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I realize that every marriage is different but this saddens me. It implies that the male brain is superior to the female brain, especially when it comes to discerning Scripture. She has the questions (ignorance), he has the answers (knowledge).

I agree..and there were wmen in the Bible that werent just standing ther clueless waiting for a "man" to depart the knowledge..

Also ..hwo are women supposed to "work out their own salvation" in trembling and fear if she cant even interpret the word in the Bible without her husband telling her what it MEANS TO HER?

Women are accountable to GOD not her husband..her husband isnt her savior..

Dallas
 
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