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Without a moral foundation, you're only left with dysfunction

Spiribala

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I´m still not entirely convinced that this trend is as dramatic as you perceive it (e.g. while there is indeed an overall trend, I see pretty sudden rises and falls from one year to the next; and if I am not mistaken, it´s not a permanent trend throughout 20 years: from 1994 to 2004 it rather goes in the opposite direction).

I´m also not entirely convinced that Christian denominations were basically agreeing on actual social and political matters, while today they are more polarized. (In Germany, for example, still in the fifties the Catholic and the Protestant churches - pretty much the only two significant Christain groups here - were acting like dog and cat, while today they work hand in hand. But that´s Germany....).

Anyway, let´s for argument´s sake just say your analysis (the trend and the reasons) is entirely accurate: the American society is more polarized than 20 or 70 years ago).

The more interesting questions in regards to your hypothesis, in my opinion, are:
How do you determine that a society is "dysfunctional"?
(E.g. personally, I would say that a society that separates by races - as the USA did in your Golden Times, the fifties, is dysfunctional. A society that leads aggressive wars is dysfunctional. Etc.)

and

If this trend is reason for concern (of which I am not entirely sure, either):
What do you think can and/or needs to be done in order to reverse it?


This is going to be short, since I'm pressed for time at the moment. There are many factors at play for the recent trend of polarization and for for less polarization between 1994-2004. I believe it was more stable between 1994-2004 for a few reasons. First, the American economy was quite good during most of that time. Even when you disagree with the other side of the aisle on fundamental issues, if the economy is good, you see them as less of a threat. Also, the terrorist attacks on 9/11/01 unified people if only for a few years. When groups, in this case a nation, undergoes an attack like we had, their is increased unity for at least a short period of time. Also, it wasn't until probably the partway through the mid aughts (the decade) that most people really started consistently using the Internet. Papers by this time we're starting to weaken and more people used the Internet as their main source of news. Off the top of my head, I don't have data for this, but I do believe that's led to confirmation bias and therefore has helped increase polarization.

I'll have to get to the rest later.
 
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Ken-1122

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I mentioned the 1950's as a high point in shared culture and a common understanding of morality in America, not any time before it.

The 1950's as a HIGH POINT of shared culture and common understanding of morality in America? I think many will agree that any moral division of morality today, will pale in comparison to the divisiveness we had during the Civil Rights era of the 1950’s.

Ken
 
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Spiribala

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Perhaps I am missing your point, but to be fair you haven't articulated it very clearly in the OP or in the post to me. Your OP is very wordy, but doesn't really covey what you believe a moral foundation is. Or how a lack of one has tangibly caused dysfunction for all of society. A concise OP would have been way more helpful. I asked qs to try to better understand you, & your answers were too vague to give clarity. I asked you what a moral foundation was to you, and you started off with "Well, I'm a Christian, so I think it should be Christianity." That's really ambiguous. The rest of the response was as well. It didn't detail anything about what the policies that you think should be in place to have a moral foundation would be. Can you please clarify what exactly that means to you? 100 Christians would have 100 different ideas as to what a moral foundation built on Christianity would mean, so you explaining to me what you think that would be would be helpful. It's really off base to say that I'm misrepresenting you. I'm tired & trying to understand you.



I disagree completely! Just look at how acrimonious disagreements between people who support Ted Cruz & Donald Trump have been. Both of them have a lot of evangelical Christians who follow them & they both say they're Christians.

Can you give a straightforward explanation of what you think common morality entails? I mean an explanation with specifics.
I don't think the media & entertainment of the past really showed a common culture. I mean most of the TV shows in the 50s showed a nuclear white family & even back then that's not how many Americans lived.




Specifically, how was the 1950s a high point in shared culture? Tbh I haven't studied that decade as in depth yet. I'm in 10th & will take US History next yr, but I think I've studied it enough so far to say that I think you're glossing it. There was way more blatant racism, sexism & anti-Semitism then. There was McCarthyism. Gay ppl who came out could be subjected to horrible treatment. I don't think it was a more moral society at all. It might have just looked that way on TV.



I know all that. I was giving it as something we both have in common bc we don't know one another irl & how things are where you live could be way different. I know disagreements don't necessarily entail a lack of respect but I sure have seen a TON of disrespect between Christians on this board. Tons of different ideas of what it means to be a moral Christian. Some say you can't be a real Christian & vote Republican & others say the exact same thing except vote Democrat.


A moral foundation is a set of beliefs about what it means to live ethically. An example of such a belief that was very common in the 1950's and is now divides the country is that the nuclear family as an ideal. In the 1950's most children were raised in traditional two parent families. It was true of white families and black families. Today, it's not at all true in black families and it's also not true for the general population - fewer than half of children under 18 live with two married parents in their first marriage. In 1960 9% of children lived in a single parent home. Today 34% do. Regardless of what you think about these trends they have definitely significantly divided the country. Many think the trends are ok or beneficial and many think it's a cause of social disintegration. It's an example of a generally broad agreement among people changing to strong disagreements and divisions.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-u-s-kids-today-live-in-a-traditional-family/

My argument is not that previous decades were more moral. My argument is that previous decades were less polarized, and that polarization in itself is a bad thing because it prevents measured and reasoned public discourse and encourages hate towards people who are on the other side of the political aisle from you. Let's ignore the 1950's for a moment. Let's focus on the difference between the 1990's and today because we actually have data on this. I may have posted this in this thread before but maybe you didn't see it, so here is a pew report showing the change:

http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/section-2-growing-partisan-antipathy/

You bring up the animosity between Trump and Cruz, and dismissed Christianity as a factor that provides a common moral outlook among people. I would say, religion is one such factor that helps provide a common moral foundation. There are many other factors, and yes, those other factors can certainly outweigh Christianity. A very big factor is, for instance, where you live and your own specific social milieu. People in small towns, for instance, think very different from people in big cities. Farmers think differently and have different experiences than tech wizards. Another major factor is economics. Poor people have very different life experiences than rich and those experiences do influence how they think about most aspects of life and obviously includes politics. Just because I firmly believe that Christianity plays a very important role in how people think about morality does not at all mean I think it's the only factor or even the most important factor in many instances.
 
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quatona

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A moral foundation is a set of beliefs about what it means to live ethically. An example of such a belief that was very common in the 1950's and is now divides the country is that the nuclear family as an ideal. In the 1950's most children were raised in traditional two parent families. It was true of white families and black families. Today, it's not at all true in black families and it's also not true for the general population - fewer than half of children under 18 live with two married parents in their first marriage. In 1960 9% of children lived in a single parent home. Today 34% do. Regardless of what you think about these trends they have definitely significantly divided the country. Many think the trends are ok or beneficial and many think it's a cause of social disintegration. It's an example of a generally broad agreement among people changing to strong disagreements and divisions.
[...]
My argument is not that previous decades were more moral. My argument is that previous decades were less polarized, and that polarization in itself is a bad thing because it prevents measured and reasoned public discourse and encourages hate towards people who are on the other side of the political aisle from you. Let's ignore the 1950's for a moment.
It seems to me there´s a significant gap in your argument:
A greater diversity doesn´t necessarily lead to greater polarization.
E.g.: Personally, I have never been a fan of marriage, nuclear family and related "traditional values". My life has always been circled around other values, and I had a totally different outlook on life. It doesn´t logically follow that I am hateful towards those who live up to their "traditional" life plan, and vice versa.
Thus, if we recognize greater diversity plus greater polarization (and we ignore the possibility that it´s mere coincidence), there must be at least a third factor that leads from one to the other.
 
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quatona

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A very big factor is, for instance, where you live and your own specific social milieu. People in small towns, for instance, think very different from people in big cities. Farmers think differently and have different experiences than tech wizards. Another major factor is economics. Poor people have very different life experiences than rich and those experiences do influence how they think about most aspects of life and obviously includes politics.
Sure, but these differences aren´t recently acquired factors. They have always existed.
 
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Spiribala

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It seems to me there´s a significant gap in your argument:
A greater diversity doesn´t necessarily lead to greater polarization.
E.g.: Personally, I have never been a fan of marriage, nuclear family and related "traditional values". My life has always been circled around other values, and I had a totally different outlook on life. It doesn´t logically follow that I am hateful towards those who live up to their "traditional" life plan, and vice versa.
Thus, if we recognize greater diversity plus greater polarization (and we ignore the possibility that it´s mere coincidence), there must be at least a third factor that leads from one to the other.

I'd nominate tribalism for that third factor. People join groups, form a common group identity and if that group identity is strong enough, form friendships and make enemies based on that identity. If you're especially reasonable, or especially individualistic or are part of a more important (to you) tribe that considers family structure a neutral issue than it makes sense you wouldn't have as big of an issue with it.

Also, most people don't have much of a libertarian inclination. Generally, if someone supports certain things strongly, they will want the government to favor those things. Most people, I think, see politics as a zero sum game - where if some group wins, the other group loses.
 
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Spiribala

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Sure, but these differences aren´t recently acquired factors. They have always existed.

I think it's just much easier to find groups that confirm your own biases today. As I've mentioned before, it's true demographically. People generally move to areas with people more like them. And of course technology has accelerated this trend. If you believe the earth is flat their is an internet forum for you. So of course it's very easy for people with more mainstream views, especially political ones, to find online communities and news that confirm their biases.
 
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quatona

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I think it's just much easier to find groups that confirm your own biases today. As I've mentioned before, it's true demographically. People generally move to areas with people more like them. And of course technology has accelerated this trend. If you believe the earth is flat their is an internet forum for you. So of course it's very easy for people with more mainstream views, especially political ones, to find online communities and news that confirm their biases.
So you feel that centralized propaganda is required for keeping a society functional?
 
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quatona

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I'd nominate tribalism for that third factor. People join groups, form a common group identity and if that group identity is strong enough, form friendships and make enemies based on that identity. If you're especially reasonable, or especially individualistic or are part of a more important (to you) tribe that considers family structure a neutral issue than it makes sense you wouldn't have as big of an issue with it.
This looks like we are getting closer to identifying conservativism (appeals to tribalism, traditionalism, the fear of change, the fear of diversity, unified bias and propaganda, unified values, anti-intellectualism, anti-individualism...) as the problem.
Also, most people don't have much of a libertarian inclination. Generally, if someone supports certain things strongly, they will want the government to favor those things. Most people, I think, see politics as a zero sum game - where if some group wins, the other group loses.
Which is also nothing new - hence doesn´t explain the trend.

But let´s keep in mind: I am not American, and your culture is certainly different than ours.
Not that my anecdotal evidence counts for much, but ever since I have observed and partaken in American political discussion forums (which must be ca 15 years ago), I got the impression that Americans tend to get a kick out of polarization. In comparison to where I come from, they tend to demonize countries that they disagree with, they tend to demonize people who disagree with them. They don´t go about solving an issue, they start a "war on X".
Again, that´s just my anecdotal impression. And the internet isn´t necessarily reprensenting real life - so take all that with a grain of salt.

Anyway, if you get the chance, I´d recommend you to watch the BBC documentary "Century of Self" (used to be on YouTube, not sure if it´s still there). It´s a couple of hours long, but given your inclination towards sociology I´m sure you´ll find it interesting.
 
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quatona

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I'd nominate tribalism for that third factor. People join groups, form a common group identity and if that group identity is strong enough, form friendships and make enemies based on that identity. If you're especially reasonable, or especially individualistic or are part of a more important (to you) tribe that considers family structure a neutral issue than it makes sense you wouldn't have as big of an issue with it.
While I get your idea, I think you are stretching the term "tribalism" in a way that makes it a distinction without the actual difference it usually denotes: A tribe is what you are born into ("race", nation, familiy,....), not the friends and allies you have chosen for having similar opinions as you do.

Also, most people don't have much of a libertarian inclination. Generally, if someone supports certain things strongly, they will want the government to favor those things. Most people, I think, see politics as a zero sum game - where if some group wins, the other group loses.
Seems like this is the thing to start working on when we want to create a pluralistic yet not overly antagonizing society.
 
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Cimorene

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A moral foundation is a set of beliefs about what it means to live ethically.

That's still incredibly vague. It provides no clarity about what you think a moral foundation would consist of. The 1 example you gave is really flawed to me. Can you give specifics about the set of beliefs you think are necessary to live ethically? Are those beliefs unique to Christianity?

An example of such a belief that was very common in the 1950's and is now divides the country is that the nuclear family as an ideal. In the 1950's most children were raised in traditional two parent families. It was true of white families and black families. Today, it's not at all true in black families and it's also not true for the general population - fewer than half of children under 18 live with two married parents in their first marriage. In 1960 9% of children lived in a single parent home. Today 34% do. Regardless of what you think about these trends they have definitely significantly divided the country. Many think the trends are ok or beneficial and many think it's a cause of social disintegration. It's an example of a generally broad agreement among people changing to strong disagreements and divisions.

I don't think that really has as much to do w morality but w conforming in order to be accepted by society at that time. So I don't think that's an example of society having a moral foundation. A lot of it also has to do w how laws were different back then. It was a lot harder to get divorced so more stayed married, even if the marriage was toxic. Less women had an education or a job to be able to support themselves so that made divorce harder too. There were also parents who abandoned their kids but were still technically married. We just read Revolutionary Road in my English class. It definitely portrays the 50s differently than you do. People were still having affairs back then, but they stayed married bc that was part of keeping up appearances. It wasn't even about what was best for the kids lots of times & lots of times it wasn't for their best anyway. It was motivated not by morality really but fear of judgment. The whole keeping up w the Joneses & keeping face thing. Women still wanted abortions but fewer had them bc it was illegal. It's why April gave herself an abortion at home & died from it. Teen girls got pregnant & lots were treated cruelly for it while the boys got a pass.

You are right in the sense that back then conforming was a huge part of the culture. More people did agree on what looked better. Idk that it actually was better. As the book shows, that conformity really wasn't more moral or healthier. I know it's just fiction but one of the reasons it got so much praise is bc it conveys a lot of truth.

Isn't the divorce rate of Christians about the same as the divorce rate for non-Christians? I thought deeply religious states like Kentucky had some of the highest divorce rates.

My argument is not that previous decades were more moral. My argument is that previous decades were less polarized, and that polarization in itself is a bad thing because it prevents measured and reasoned public discourse and encourages hate towards people who are on the other side of the political aisle from you. Let's ignore the 1950's for a moment. Let's focus on the difference between the 1990's and today because we actually have data on this. I may have posted this in this thread before but maybe you didn't see it, so here is a pew report showing the change:

http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/12/section-2-growing-partisan-antipathy/

Yes, in the past people conformed more. So there was less polarization in that respect. I think a lot of that was bc they feared being judged & ostracized if they didn't conform. I agree that polarization is a bad thing but I think it's caused by having a cookie cutter mindset to begin w.


You bring up the animosity between Trump and Cruz, and dismissed Christianity as a factor that provides a common moral outlook among people. I would say, religion is one such factor that helps provide a common moral foundation. There are many other factors, and yes, those other factors can certainly outweigh Christianity. A very big factor is, for instance, where you live and your own specific social milieu. People in small towns, for instance, think very different from people in big cities. Farmers think differently and have different experiences than tech wizards. Another major factor is economics. Poor people have very different life experiences than rich and those experiences do influence how they think about most aspects of life and obviously includes politics. Just because I firmly believe that Christianity plays a very important role in how people think about morality does not at all mean I think it's the only factor or even the most important factor in many instances.

I didn't dismiss it. I just disagree w you. It can provide a common moral outlook. It can cause a ton of divisions as history has shown repeatedly. I do agree w you that where you live & your financial status has a huge impact on how you think & act.
 
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Spiribala

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That's still incredibly vague. It provides no clarity about what you think a moral foundation would consist of. The 1 example you gave is really flawed to me. Can you give specifics about the set of beliefs you think are necessary to live ethically? Are those beliefs unique to Christianity?

I think our conversation is a good example of the difficulty I mention in the opening post - that two people who look at things through very different moral lenses, have difficulty understanding each other. This misunderstanding can often grow into hostility, especially where politics are concerned and the stakes involve real issues that affect peoples' lives.

Anyway, I'm going to post an extended quote from a book titled Understanding Paul: The Early Christian Worldview of the Letter to the Romans. In this introductory chapter the author is writing about how Paul's writings can seem so very foreign, bizarre and judgmental to many people in modern society. So the author compares and contrasts a modern secular view (the first view in the quote) to a view more in line with how Paul thought of reality (the latter view in the quote) which is similar to the view of many Christians today. As you're reading this, think about how many of the so many of the ethical issues of today look completely different depending on which of these two worldviews you might have.

"According to the first view, we live in a world thrown together by the chance assembly of particles of matter. The suitedness to survival that we discern in its life-forms must represent, not the work of some supernatural designer, but merely those random combinations of globules that have proved capable of perpetuating themselves. To speak of the beauty or goodness of all-that-is or of any of its parts is merely a poetic (or naive) way of saying that certain conglomerations of globules seem pleasing or useful to us. Furthermore, humans are completely free to reshape what nature has thrown together into something that better suits their tastes or convenience; after all, a nature with no purpose of its own provides only raw material for purpose-driven human beings. Nor can there be any inherent rightness or wrongness in the nature of things, haphazard and unstructured as things are.
In principle, then, humans are free to choose what they think best or most desirable for themselves. Since their choices will be diverse, the greatest premium will be placed on the virtue of tolerance (that is, on our ability to live with people who choose differently than we), whereas a great vice will be seen in any attempt to impose one’s own choices on others. Any constraint placed upon us not of our choosing (apart from those required for mutual coexistence) can only be an arbitrary, unjustifiable expression of a “will to power,” a desire to dominate, on the part of the constrainer. (People whose thinking is governed by such a worldview can only view would-be apostles with grave suspicion!)”

“On the second worldview sketched above, however, trouble springs precisely from the human presumption that we are free to remake the world to our own specifications, that nature itself has no order or goodness that we need to respect. Words like “beauty” and “goodness,” while reflecting human perceptions, put us on the right track: they express an awareness of a presence and purpose in nature not our own, to which we appropriately respond with wonder and appreciation. Nor, on this view, can the language of right and “wrong, at its root, be the sheer invention of human beings who want to impose their will on others. However subject to abuse and distortion such language may be, it is nonetheless grounded in a proper sense that there are adequate and inadequate, appropriate and disastrously inappropriate, ways of responding to the reality of life in our world. Obviously, human choice is pivotal to this worldview, as it is to the first. According to the first view, humans choose how to shape an unstructured world to their liking. But according to the second view, the distinctiveness of human beings lies in their capacity to grasp, affirm, and celebrate the already-existing goodness of the created order. They are thus called upon to add a peculiarly human dimension to the goodness and glory of the whole. Yet, alas, the capacity for affirming and celebrating the good inevitably opens to humans the contrary possibility as well: they can refuse to acknowledge or respect any good in the cosmos but that of personal ambition and pleasure. The self-absorption of the latter choice breeds rivalry, distrust, conflict, and destruction."
 
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Cimorene

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I think our conversation is a good example of the difficulty I mention in the opening post - that two people who look at things through very different moral lenses, have difficulty understanding each other. This misunderstanding can often grow into hostility, especially where politics are concerned and the stakes involve real issues that affect peoples' lives.

I asked you very clear, simple, straightforward qs to try to understand you. I was hoping you'd answer this time, but you didn't. Again you've used a lot of words to not actually convey much at all. I can't see through your "moral lens" bc you've got a cap on the end of yours. All you've given is rhetoric w no real examples that would let me actually see what you mean. There's no hostility on my part. Just a tiny bit of frustration bc it feels like a waste of time. The long quote you posted really doesn't give any practical understanding of what you mean by a moral foundation in modern time.

Here are the qs again. If you're not going to answer them, in your own words & not a quote from someone else, please don't write a reply.
Can you give specifics about the set of beliefs you think are necessary to live ethically? Are those beliefs unique to Christianity?
 
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Ana the Ist

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What's become noted today, is that America does not have a common moral underpinning.

A big part (perhaps the biggest part) of the principles our nation was founded upon is the notion of personal/individual freedom. You don't have to do what others want you to, believe what others want you to, or say what others want you to.

While I do think there are issues stemming from the exaltation of personal liberty...in general, I think it's a benefit and not to be restricted lightly.

What kind of trends are developing right now because of this that are harmful to society? Are their any aspects to this which are good?

I'm not aware of any trends which haven't always existed in some degree or another...and they always have good aspects to them.

Probably the most perplexing and distressing problem, at least to me on a personal level, is that due to not having common moral ground with others, conversation is halted. Views are unmoved even after argumentation because you're just so far apart from the other person in your system of beliefs. I have a coworker, who has in bundles, intelligence, rationality, passionate views and a desire to change the world for what she thinks of as the better. I like to think I have those things as well. However, our moral foundation is so far off that we never actually had a substantive conversation that didn't end in "let's agree to disagree." I've stopped having those conversations, because we don't have a moral bedrock on which we can agree and which we can build subsequent points on top of. And while I respect her as a person, it's a deeply disturbing feeling to have.

Could you be more specific? I understand that you think your disagreement may be a result of different moral values...but it may be due to other more basic differences in perspective. There's just no real way of knowing without more details.

While I don't think this is yet the case among conservatives and liberals in general, it's increasingly moving in that direction. If you took, say, the most liberal 20% of liberals and the most conservative 20% of conservatives, you may have a situation like my coworker and I have - that all conversations among such people can only end in frustration.

Were you hoping that the conversations you had with your coworker ended with her changing her mind? I also have a coworker who I disagreed with on a lot of topics, from politics to religion to the economy. I never expected to get him to change his views though...rather, I simply wanted to understand his and for him to understand mine.

Because of this, the personal becomes the political. If people have a moral bedrock on which they can agree, politics will still be heated but at least you can be confident that both sides, while using different means, have the same overall end in mind. Without this, then, you're left questioning motives. What we consider foundational to our own moral views, are not views that we can take or leave. What we consider foundation to our moral views is foundational precisely because it's incredibly personal and valuable to us. A phrase I've heard my coworker use to describe those she views as political opponents is that they "hate the very fact I exist." The point is that when two people's moral centers are extremely far apart, the very act of one of those people working towards their own moral goals, may in fact, be beyond the pale, and in fact evil to those with a different moral view.

I can only think of one time when I heard a conservative take a position on an issue that I considered "evil"...and so I only attributed it to him, not conservatives in general. It was a discussion on welfare, jobs, and generally his perception about people who needed government assistance. It ended with him suggesting that perhaps those who couldn't survive without government assistance should be left to die from starvation.

I thought that his belief was evil...but not him. I simply thought that he was narrow-minded, uneducated, and rather callous towards the plight of others less fortunate.

On a personal and political level this leads to distrust and people being increasingly emotionally combative. If you have no rational foundation on which to agree, you may be able to agree to disagree on a personal level. On a political level, this just isn't possible, at least not unless we go towards a much more libertarian form of government which seemingly has no popular appeal (but also an aspect of libertarianism which really makes sense to me). When reasoning to the other side becomes impossible, the other option is to rally the base by stronger and stronger denunciations of the other side. The incentive to hold a pluralistic or moderate position, or to elect those type of politicians evaporates. You can already start to see the signs. That might means Trump style language or it might mean the Obama administration threatening to cut off federal aid to North Carolina due to their new law on gay and transgender people. The signs are obvious.

They aren't anything new though. I think Trump's only real appeal is that he's something "different" in the eyes of many because he isn't a politician and their dissatisfaction with politicians is at a breaking point.

This is a problem that solves itself though. If elected, he'll make even an average president like Obama look like Abraham Lincoln by comparison.

What do you think? Am I right to be so pessimistic or are their signs for optimism? How can their be improvement if their is no agreement as to what the public good can even mean?

I think if perhaps you look more closely at history...you'll find that such periods of strife are nothing new. I think that you'll also see that often at the height of such periods...the "public good" becomes more apparent to most people and positive changes begin to occur.
 
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bhsmte

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What's become noted today, is that America does not have a common moral underpinning. What kind of trends are developing right now because of this that are harmful to society? Are their any aspects to this which are good?

Probably the most perplexing and distressing problem, at least to me on a personal level, is that due to not having common moral ground with others, conversation is halted. Views are unmoved even after argumentation because you're just so far apart from the other person in your system of beliefs. I have a coworker, who has in bundles, intelligence, rationality, passionate views and a desire to change the world for what she thinks of as the better. I like to think I have those things as well. However, our moral foundation is so far off that we never actually had a substantive conversation that didn't end in "let's agree to disagree." I've stopped having those conversations, because we don't have a moral bedrock on which we can agree and which we can build subsequent points on top of. And while I respect her as a person, it's a deeply disturbing feeling to have.

While I don't think this is yet the case among conservatives and liberals in general, it's increasingly moving in that direction. If you took, say, the most liberal 20% of liberals and the most conservative 20% of conservatives, you may have a situation like my coworker and I have - that all conversations among such people can only end in frustration.

Because of this, the personal becomes the political. If people have a moral bedrock on which they can agree, politics will still be heated but at least you can be confident that both sides, while using different means, have the same overall end in mind. Without this, then, you're left questioning motives. What we consider foundational to our own moral views, are not views that we can take or leave. What we consider foundation to our moral views is foundational precisely because it's incredibly personal and valuable to us. A phrase I've heard my coworker use to describe those she views as political opponents is that they "hate the very fact I exist." The point is that when two people's moral centers are extremely far apart, the very act of one of those people working towards their own moral goals, may in fact, be beyond the pale, and in fact evil to those with a different moral view.

On a personal and political level this leads to distrust and people being increasingly emotionally combative. If you have no rational foundation on which to agree, you may be able to agree to disagree on a personal level. On a political level, this just isn't possible, at least not unless we go towards a much more libertarian form of government which seemingly has no popular appeal (but also an aspect of libertarianism which really makes sense to me). When reasoning to the other side becomes impossible, the other option is to rally the base by stronger and stronger denunciations of the other side. The incentive to hold a pluralistic or moderate position, or to elect those type of politicians evaporates. You can already start to see the signs. That might means Trump style language or it might mean the Obama administration threatening to cut off federal aid to North Carolina due to their new law on gay and transgender people. The signs are obvious.

What do you think? Am I right to be so pessimistic or are their signs for optimism? How can their be improvement if their is no agreement as to what the public good can even mean?

And who should decide, what this "common morality" is?
 
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Fantine

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Theologian Hans Kung, President of the Foundation for a Global Ethic, studied the commonalities between religions and established a set of global moral principles on which all nations could agree. A document was signed by numerous nations in 1993.

In an era of diversity we need to find what principles we can agree on and support them wholeheartedly.
 
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