With the blood

doubtingmerle said:

Why would the devil want a dead body?

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A king offers his prince and heir to trade for the freedom and lives of his people. That's the analogy, in simple terms.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

It's not that we owe the devil anything, it's that the devil has/had held us captive. The ransom is paid to free us from that unlawful and cruel captivity.

The devil thought this was a good deal, since he gets the very Son of God, but it is turned against him. His new prize is his defeat, destruction, and downfall.

-CryptoLutheran

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What I see is that the Devil saw an opportunity, he was taking out yet another leader that opposed him. The Devil did what the Devil normally does, death is a weapon for him. The powers and principalities threw everything at him they had and couldn't hold him. That's not exactly why they lost, the angels in heaven when they fight against him overcome through the blood of the Lamb. Life wins over death, I think that is the whole idea here. Justice being satisfied, mercy can now move forward and rescue those who were in bondage, the Devil who is the ultimate opportunist, continues to pursue lies and murder.

But there was at least one life he could not end, bear in mind Jesus wasn't killed, he laid down his life. Perhaps the Devil can be seen as the jailer who thought he had an unbreakable bond, only to see the captives freed. I just don't like the term 'ransom', it's like a ransom paid for a hostage, it really doesn't work that way.

I sometimes wonder about the crucifixion, how it broke the stranglehold the Devil had on the world. I've never been comfortable with Satan being allowed into the heavenly courts, always wondered why God doesn't just shut this nonsense down. Then you encounter the angels fighting against the dragon, and they overcome through the blood of the Lamb. For me, it's the power of an indestructible life that brings the demise of the Devil, sin and death.

I guess I have some issues with ransom theory, nothing all that meaningful. Atonement is a very big deal in Leviticus and very much emphasized in the New Testament witness. The price of sin is paid to God, and as the gospel teaches, by God.

doubtingmerle said:

Kinda like trading your star quarterback for a thousand first round draft picks.

Small problem: The devil only got the quarterback for 3 days, and then the deal was off.

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The devil is the loser in this situation, because he's supposed to be the loser in this situation--the point isn't to make a fair trade with the prince of darkness, but to utterly wreck him.

-CryptoLutheran

doubtingmerle said:

Revelation 5:9 says:

And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
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What does that even mean? How did Jesus purchase men unto God with blood?

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You cannot take the words of revelations seriously in my mind. It is entirely a work of theology and gives us no insight into what Jesus or the earliest Christians thought.

doubtingmerle said:

Why wouldn't you just send in the marines?

So we are to believe salvation is all a big trick that God played on the devil. He traded his son for all of us, then, after freeing the hostages, he backed out on the deal.

If this is true, are you sure you can trust the one who pulled this off?

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And, as I said in the first place, that's where some have a problem with some aspects of Ransom Theory.

-CryptoLutheran

doubtingmerle said:

Other books talk about the blood. I don't understand how blood can buy salvation.

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It cannot!