Witchcraft and Games

[CWLite]

Whatching witchcraft on tv and in movies is from what I understand wrong. The word says the our eyes and hears are the gates to our soul. When we whatch and hear the wrong stuff, it effects us and our actions. I know this to be true, cause advertising works on the same premise, and advertising works. So, would the same be in videogames? Games that deal with witches, wizards, warlocks, and what have you deal with magic of some sort.

Would whatching let alone interacting with these games like these be detrimental to one's health? I have asked myself this question and I now ask you.

 

[Bushido216]

Only if you're already susceptible to the notion that a game's made-up-world's sense of morality somehow translates into the real world.

 

[CWLite]

In every game, the makers put a peice of their own morality into the game. What is the differance between Harry Potter and an RPG? Many say the Harry Potter is pro-witchcraft but has no problems on picking up the average RPG. The Bible clearly is against all witchcraft and such.

I believe in truth, which has no grey areas. So I don't think it is goes by how susceptible a person is. There is an answer, but what is it?

 

[armyman_83]

What people need to do is make games that are less.......shall we say......evil? I mean, I don't play games that do with wizards and stuff, and to be truthfull, that stuff was cool, but I have shaken it off and I see that alot of that stuff was not great. I mean I'm no D&D freak, I never played that kind of stuff but mainly video games was what I was into. I mean it is wrong when tere is false gods and wizard things. We just need to make games that don't have that stuff in them, and people who say that "so long as you know it isn't real" there is a flaw there, look at Cyber sex...[sorry to bring this in] but just because it is fake doesn't mean that it is wrong.

Sure we all make mistakes, I have and I try to play only good games, but it is hard. And if you do those kindof games but won't stop then try not to do the magic stuff in them[this way is probly not good at all but hey who knows?]

 

[seebs]

I see nothing at all wrong with fantasy games have fantasy elements in them. They have no connection to actual witchcraft, and I don't see what the big deal is.

I've been playing D&D for more than twenty years now, and it doesn't seem to have hurt me any. In fact, I credit it with some of the insights that eventually brought me to Christianity.

It's what you make of it.

 

[Silent Enigma]

I keep wondering where abouts the line should be drawn myself. Say, for example, you have a game where a character wields a sword. Then later on, you get a "magic sword", the difference being the latter causes 50% more damage. Now a person (me) could say that just because some programmer arbitrarily labelled some item "magic" doesn't mean I can't play it. To me it's no more magical than a "magic marker". But there is a lot of grey area after this point that would be nice to have cleared up.

Let me illustrate a little. The Israelites were given this warning prior to entering the promised land:

Deut 18:9-12

"When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.
NKJV

Many will be quick to point out that playing an imaginary game and actually DOING sorcery are two different things. Granted.

But I think it would be scripturally sound logic to assume that we as God's children should consider abominations... well... abominable.

Obviously if we are finding ourselves being softened to the notions of witchcraft, sorcery, and idolatry, that would be a definite dividing line.

When posting a questiong like you have, CWLite, you'll often get the two polar responses:

1.> It's not real, so do whatever.
2.> Everything down to a "magic mushroom" is a sin.

Perhaps someeone else here can delve into the nuances of this issue as well.

 

[armyman_83]

I keep wondering where abouts the line should be drawn myself. Say, for example, you have a game where a character wields a sword. Then later on, you get a "magic sword", the difference being the latter causes 50% more damage. Now a person (me) could say that just because some ...programmer arbitrarily labelled some item "magic" doesn't mean I can't play it. To me it's no more magical than a "magic marker". But there is a lot of grey area after this point that would be nice to have cleared up.

Let me illustrate a little. The Israelites were given this warning prior to entering the promised land:



Many will be quick to point out that playing an imaginary game and actually DOING sorcery are two different things. Granted.

But I think it would be scripturally sound logic to assume that we as God's children should consider abominations... well... abominable.

Obviously if we are finding ourselves being softened to the notions of witchcraft, sorcery, and idolatry, that would be a definite dividing line.

When posting a questiong like you have, CWLite, you'll often get the two polar responses:

1.> It's not real, so do whatever.
2.> Everything down to a "magic mushroom" is a sin.

Perhaps someeone else here can delve into the nuances of this issue as well.

Great post, you hit the nail on the head. Most people just say it isn't real, and the others are crazy on the other side. We should, as Christians, make games that don't do all the magic stuff, sure it may seem cool;but can't you just shoot an arrow insted?
But yeah, spell casting, necromancing(sp), or wichcraft+anything=not right with God

 

[seebs]

Perhaps someeone else here can delve into the nuances of this issue as well.

You make interesting points.

IMHO, the "sorcery" in video games, D&D, and so on, is just science fiction with the serial numbers filed off. A D&D wizard knows a series of incantations that will send a message to someone a thousand miles away. So do I. I call it "AOL Instant Messenger". It's pure technology.

Ars Magica actually has something that has some of the notions that people who believe in magic talk about. Still... It's a game. In the end, I don't see a problem there.

To be fair, I don't really care much about "magic". I don't particularly believe in it, and insofar as I think there's anything to it, I don't have any way to distinguish between natural phenomena we just don't understand yet and "real" magic. I don't worry, because I don't need to know; prayer works well enough for me.

Still... I know some people who believe that a person can acquire the power to say words over wine and turn it into blood. I have never seen a good explanation of what makes one thing "magic" and another "not magic".

 

[CWLite]

What is the difference between a witch putting a curse on their enemy, and doing to same thing in the game? Sure, you can say the game is not real, but isn't the intent the same? I think that it is all about how our thoughts react to stimuli, real or fake.

 

[Matt Never Existed]

Honestly, I'm an avid RPG fan. Its one of the few types of games that I really get into and enjoy, even though I'm just mildly 'ok' at them.

The way I see it, as long as the game doesn't need me to do anything other than type or click to cast a 'spell', or simply state to the GM "I cast ______ on ______" and roll dice, then I don't have a problem with it.

Besides, I don't like magic-using classes in RPGs. I'm more of an Archer-type of person. ^.^

 

[Silent Enigma]

To be fair, I don't really care much about "magic". I don't particularly believe in it, and insofar as I think there's anything to it, I don't have any way to distinguish between natural phenomena we just don't understand yet and "real" magic. I don't worry, because I don't need to know; prayer works well enough for me.

Well, that's kind of another issue. Regardless of whether the incantations in a game would "work" in real life, God considers sorcery a sin.

The question at hand is how should we consider games.

Now seebs, you brought up another point. In a game - what is the difference between technology (say a "laser beam") and a "magic spell" other than the label. In effect all that is happening is your computer is displaying light patterns on a screen. Sounds logical to me.

But people also could use a similar argument to defend viewing cartoon pornography. "It's not real - it's just entertainment." (Albeit of a very different sort.)

Back to the subject, it often boils down to-- "well, it depends if it affects the person playing it." But we can end up like the proverbial frog in the pot, with the gradual influx of negative influences affecting our outlook on things, but not noticing any sudden changes along the way.

I'm trying to look at all sides of this issue.

More later.

 

[morningstar2651]

People...get over your Satanic panic already.

First off -- Witchcraft isn't neccisarily Satanic.

Second -- The bible doesn't even condemn witchcraft -- King James didn't like a divination he recieved and altered the translation of poisoner to witch. If you don't believe me then do the research yourself.

Third -- Witchcraft isn't detrimental to your health. I'm just fine.

Fourth -- If you're that easily influenced by games, perhaps you aren't mature enough to be playing them...this coming from me as a game developer -- not a pagan. In fact...if you're that easily influenced, you may as well disconnect from the internet right now.

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

To me, a game is just a game, a work of fiction. Fiction cannot harm anyone or anything, because it's fiction. However...

If a person was perhaps mentally unstable, a work of fiction could harm them. But, not only a work of fiction could cause harm. Generally, someone that unbalanced is perceiving all things differently, not just fictional things. We can't very well go off and say that all things are dangerous because someone may take it all the wrong way.

Consider, perhaps, the various crimes people have committed when they were mentally unbalanced and perceived their world radically different from the people around them. They went off and did a heinous crime for a strange and non-sensical reason. If that reason was something like a book they read, or a song they heard on the radio one day, or their next-door neighbors' dog, is that thing a bad thing? No, the person was crazy, that doesn't mean that dogs/books/songs are influencial in serial killings. I believe video games to be the same way. They don't influence a person badly, they are just an object, a work of fiction.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Whatching witchcraft on tv and in movies is from what I understand wrong. The word says the our eyes and hears are the gates to our soul. When we whatch and hear the wrong stuff, it effects us and our actions. I know this to be true, cause advertising works on the same premise, and advertising works. So, would the same be in videogames? Games that deal with witches, wizards, warlocks, and what have you deal with magic of some sort.

Would whatching let alone interacting with these games like these be detrimental to one's health? I have asked myself this question and I now ask you.

If you really get down to it, what kind of video games could we play anyway? I don't know of many at all that don't involve magic, shooting/killing, building armies/waging war. It seems a bit hypocritical to say a game is wrong because it contains magic, then sit down at my PC, grab an M1 and start capping enemy soldiers with abandon. Or amass an army and conquer the world. Or jack a car, roll some old man then whack some drug dealers in a drive-by.

Most games that are enjoyable contain morally gray (at least) parts. I'm playing a dark Jedi guardian in KOTOR 2 right now and he makes Vader look like a choir boy. But then I have a paladin on World of Warcraft who is a selfless champion of the weak and innocent. I will throw him at a powerful monster and scream for everyone else to run. It's playing a role in a game.

If we want to take it to its logical conclusion, we will have to restrict ourselves to racing games, sports games (no Street or Outlaw sports games) and card/puzzle games.

I guess magic in games doesn't bother me because I dabbled with the real thing when I was involved in the occult and it is nothing like what is in the games.

 

[CWLite]

Is there anything spiritual in witchcraft?

(it can relate)

 

[Alexander Nissi]

Second -- The bible doesn't even condemn witchcraft -- King James didn't like a divination he recieved and altered the translation of poisoner to witch. If you don't believe me then do the research yourself.

The bible doesn't condemn witchcraft? What about Leviticus 20:6 that says "I will set my face against the person whoturns to witchcraft or sorcery and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them."

Fourth -- If you're that easily influenced by games, perhaps you aren't mature enough to be playing them...this coming from me as a game developer -- not a pagan. In fact...if you're that easily influenced, you may as well disconnect from the internet right now.

I couldn't agree more with this statement~Alec

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

Is there anything spiritual in witchcraft?

(it can relate)

I believe there are already a ton of debates and general faqs kind of things over in the Philosophy and Morality folder. They should be near-ish the top of the folder.

 

[morningstar2651]

Is there anything spiritual in witchcraft?

Many forms of witchcraft are spiritual and worship some aspect of the divine. There is a fairly long thread in Non-Christian religion explaining about one of the more popular forms of witchcraft that can be found here. I recommend reading it to clear up misconceptions.

Some worship Yahweh, some do not.

 

[CWLite]

Many forms of witchcraft are spiritual and worship some aspect of the divine. There is a fairly long thread in Non-Christian religion explaining about one of the more popular forms of witchcraft that can be found here. I recommend reading it to clear up misconceptions.

Some worship Yahweh, some do not.

Thanks. I thought that I had better know a little more before I stick my foot in my mouth.

 

[Eve_Sundancer]

That's a great thing to hear! We need more people like you nice and willing to learn about something before stating an opinion.