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Witch hunting

Uber Genius

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I never claimed the Buddha never used figurative language.

Being sarcastic due to the obvious use of these types of metaphorical language in all the parable genre. All the synoptics use these figures of speech over and over again qua KOG.

What is Luke 19:27 figurative for?
The sword. Common in both defense against thieves and in attack but means violent clash between Kingdoms. Not Jesus telling people to go murder and kill people in his name.

These are easy easy easy things to find all over the internet.

Your ignorance is suspect, and appears willful.
 
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ananda

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The sword. Common in both defense against thieves and in attack but means violent clash between Kingdoms. Not Jesus telling people to go murder and kill people in his name.

These are easy easy easy things to find all over the internet.

Your ignorance is suspect, and appears willful.
Sorry, but I just don't happen to agree with your personal interpretation - I don't find it convincing, or in line with the plain reading of the verses.

I've asked multiple Christians about this passage, and it either shocks them, or they dissemble. It was also one of the verses that shocked me, and was partially instrumental in me leaving 30-years of Christianity.
 
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Uber Genius

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your personal interpretation.

The fact that Christians currently are not generally intellectually developed or have understood exegetical or hermeneutical methods does not divorce us from understanding what early audiences would have understood.

It is not perfect but no knowledge area is.

Further why take a vox populi approach? That is a fallacy not a method for understanding the true external world.

Finally, their is nothing "personal" about the interpretation.

I see post modernism as self-refuting in its strong form. I am giving the generally accepted scholarly understanding of KOG theology qua your reference since George Eldon Ladd in the early 1960s. And he was working off of the early ante-nicene patristics. So your interpretation is a straw man. Nothing more.

The fact that others Christian or no refuse to invest a few minutes to "study to show oneself approved," in no way diminishes the truth-value of the Biblical message, anymore than someones misunderstanding of Buddha's message would undermine Buddhism's truth-value.
 
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ananda

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The fact that Christians currently are not generally intellectually developed or have understood exegetical or hermeneutical methods does not divorce us from understanding what early audiences would have understood.

It is not perfect but no knowledge area is.

Further why take a vox populi approach? That is a fallacy not a method for understanding the true external world.

Finally, their is nothing "personal" about the interpretation.

I see post modernism as self-refuting in its strong form. I am giving the generally accepted scholarly understanding of KOG theology qua your reference since George Eldon Ladd in the early 1960s. And he was working off of the early ante-nicene patristics. So your interpretation is a straw man. Nothing more.

The fact that others Christian or no refuse to invest a few minutes to "study to show oneself approved," in no way diminishes the truth-value of the Biblical message, anymore than someones misunderstanding of Buddha's message would undermine Buddhism's truth-value.
I used to be a teacher of both adults and children in Christianity, and taught apologetics as well as having learned Biblical Greek and some Hebrew. So, I wouldn't say that I have refused to invest a few minutes into the issue.
 
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rjs330

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You claim that the message is clear, but you're not 100% sure that your interpretation is correct?

How do you know if you are understanding something correctly? It doesn't have to be the bible, but anything someone says. How do we keep from misunderstanding something? Context right?
If you can't or won't or refuse to understand theses concepts I can't have any meaningful conversation with you at all. We might as well go our separate ways. Here are some popular sayings that are taken out of context and literary understanding and are misinterpreted.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-misunderstood-lines-in-literary-history.php
 
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rjs330

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I used to be a teacher of both adults and children in Christianity, and taught apologetics as well as having learned Biblical Greek and some Hebrew. So, I wouldn't say that I have refused to invest a few minutes into the issue.
But did you believe in Christ as your Lord and Savior? That is what is really important.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What's your interpretation of Luke 19:27?

It is probably a not so subtle reference to Archelaus. Further the nobleman in the parable is hardly a good person; and further it is interesting that the nobleman says to his servant that he should have deposited the money to build interest, considering that usury is condemned (see Deuteronomy 23:19-20).

I don't think it is an accident either that this parable occurs immediately following the episode with Zaccheus the tax collector, who declares that he will repay all the money he cheated out of people.

With these things in mind I would likely opt to see how it has been interpreted historically by different exegetes prior to attempting to reach a definitive conclusion. Though further from what I can see a frequent theme is the seriousness of future judgment, but it would be interesting that Jesus would use such a cruel and unlawful character to illustrate this point.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ananda

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How do you know if you are understanding something correctly? It doesn't have to be the bible, but anything someone says. How do we keep from misunderstanding something? Context right?
If you can't or won't or refuse to understand theses concepts I can't have any meaningful conversation with you at all. We might as well go our separate ways. Here are some popular sayings that are taken out of context and literary understanding and are misinterpreted.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-misunderstood-lines-in-literary-history.php
All I can say is that my understanding is what seems most reasonable to me in my mind, given all the information I personally possess. I acknowledge that your understanding is also what seems reasonable to you.
 
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ananda

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But did you believe in Christ as your Lord and Savior? That is what is really important.
I did, yes. If I didn't, I wouldn't have preached, nor led small groups, nor taught classes, nor done street evangelization.
 
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ananda

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It is probably a not so subtle reference to Archelaus. Further the nobleman in the parable is hardly a good person; and further it is interesting that the nobleman says to his servant that he should have deposited the money to build interest, considering that usury is condemned (see Deuteronomy 23:19-20).

I don't think it is an accident either that this parable occurs immediately following the episode with Zaccheus the tax collector, who declares that he will repay all the money he cheated out of people.

With these things in mind I would likely opt to see how it has been interpreted historically by different exegetes prior to attempting to reach a definitive conclusion. Though further from what I can see a frequent theme is the seriousness of future judgment, but it would be interesting that Jesus would use such a cruel and unlawful character to illustrate this point.

-CryptoLutheran
How does the fact that Jesus was 1. nearby "Jerusalem" and 2. those who heard him "thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear" (Luke 19:11) were the causes which prompted him to speak this parable about Archelaus?
 
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rjs330

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I did, yes. If I didn't, I wouldn't have preached, nor led small groups, nor taught classes, nor done street evangelization.
Then what kind of ground would you say you were? I am referencing what Jesus talked about with the seed and the sower.
 
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rjs330

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I completely disagree with the man being hateful and cruel. The meaning here is clear if you have the correct understanding of Christ. He was talking about the kingdom and himself. He is the man spoken of. The people hated him and did not want him to be king. Is that not Christ? The world and the people of the time hated him and the world still does. Jesus said that himself. Jesus will judge and for some the judgements will not be pretty. This is entirely about him and the kingdom. He is not cruel or unlawful. There is no usury here. The men just told h their money increased. It is not about usury. You don't have to have usury to gain an increase in money.
It is probably a not so subtle reference to Archelaus. Further the nobleman in the parable is hardly a good person; and further it is interesting that the nobleman says to his servant that he should have deposited the money to build interest, considering that usury is condemned (see Deuteronomy 23:19-20).

I don't think it is an accident either that this parable occurs immediately following the episode with Zaccheus the tax collector, who declares that he will repay all the money he cheated out of people.

With these things in mind I would likely opt to see how it has been interpreted historically by different exegetes prior to attempting to reach a definitive conclusion. Though further from what I can see a frequent theme is the seriousness of future judgment, but it would be interesting that Jesus would use such a cruel and unlawful character to illustrate this point.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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radhead

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But you didn't stay. Therefore you were one of the other types of ground. What did Jesus do to cause you to leave him?

Staying with traditional Christianity is indication that a person is NOT bearing fruit. That was his point I think.

Personally I don't think any true followers of Christ would have any association with Christianity.
 
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JackRT

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Staying with traditional Christianity is indication that a person is NOT bearing fruit. That was his point I think.

Personally I don't think any true followers of Christ would have any association with Christianity.

I tend to agree. Over the centuries what started as the religion of Jesus has morphed into a religion about Jesus and generally it is not a pretty sight.
 
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ananda

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But you didn't stay. Therefore you were one of the other types of ground. What did Jesus do to cause you to leave him?
He did nothing :) Christianity unwound itself in my eyes, the more I studied it.

The deeper I studied the Christian scriptures (even into the Greek), the more contradictions I found that I could not adequately resolve; logic and reason appealed to me, demonstrating the illogic and unreasonableness of an allegedly Almighty Deity delivering its message in such a fallible manner; I admitted that I could not prove to myself that anything in the Bible truly happened; its checkered history (like witch hunting) failed to inspire; etc.
 
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rjs330

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He did nothing :) Christianity unwound itself in my eyes, the more I studied it.

The deeper I studied the Christian scriptures (even into the Greek), the more contradictions I found that I could not adequately resolve; logic and reason appealed to me, demonstrating the illogic and unreasonableness of an allegedly Almighty Deity delivering its message in such a fallible manner; I admitted that I could not prove to myself that anything in the Bible truly happened; its checkered history (like witch hunting) failed to inspire; etc.

Well then you never really knew Jesus. You would fall under the type of person who Jesus spoke of when he said.

21 o“Not everyone who psays to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will qenter the kingdom of heaven, butthe one who rdoes the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 sOn that day tmany will sayto me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not uprophesy in your name, and cast out demons vin yourname, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 tAnd then will I declare to them, ‘Iwnever knew you; xdepart from me, yyou workers of lawlessness.’

Build Your House on the Rock
24 z“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like aa wiseman who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and thewinds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on therock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like aafoolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

You have left the faith and fall under Gods judgement. You my friend are without excuse and have been deceived.

19And so, dear brothers and sisters,10:19 Greek brothers. we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. 20By his death,10:20 Greek Through his flesh. Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.
23Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.
26Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. 30For we know the one who said,

“I will take revenge.
I will pay them back.”10:30a Deut 32:35.

He also said,

“The Lord will judge his own people.”10:30b Deut 32:36.

31It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32Think back on those early days when you first learned about Christ.10:32 Greek when you were first enlightened. Remember how you remained faithful even though it meant terrible suffering. 33Sometimes you were exposed to public ridicule and were beaten, and sometimes you helped others who were suffering the same things. 34You suffered along with those who were thrown into jail, and when all you owned was taken from you, you accepted it with joy. You knew there were better things waiting for you that will last forever.
35So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you! 36Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised.

37“For in just a little while,
the Coming One will come and not delay.
38And my righteous ones will live by faith.10:38 Or my righteous ones will live by their faithfulness;Greek reads my righteous one will live by faith.
But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”10:37-38 Hab 2:3-4.

39But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

I am sorry for you.
 
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