Wish I Could Post

[ValleyGal]

I wish I could post this on the single's forum. But since I can't, I post it here in the hopes that singles might read and re-post, and also in the hopes that we will all raise our sons to be "real" men.

35 Things We’d Better Tell Our Sons About Harassment, Assault & “Boys will be Boys” | A Holy Experience

 

[Hetta]

It's good, and it also points out how the church can be a part of this - "boys will be boys". I have heard similar horror stories, including churches who kept the lid on pastors who raped girls. That's why church isn't always the answer, or even sometimes. It's up to parents and parents only to educate their kids basically.

 

[mkgal1]

I think this is a great example of how, as parents, we can train up our children to understand that while there's wrong in the world (even in churches) that doesn't mean our children have to be a part of the corruption. It even conveys how there's not always the kind of response there should be to calling out wrongdoing---and all we can do is govern our own behavior (and stand with those that are being treated unjustly).

Dismantling the belief of "boys will be boys" needs to start in home (like Ann--the author--and her husband are doing). I love this statement: "There are more than a few good men, Son — and the world desperately needs more of them.

Stand up and go out there and be one of them. "

Cheers for them.

 

[mkgal1]

This is a great point as well (I believe):

And, as well meaning as this has been, the thing is: You don’t value a woman by telling yourself that she’s some man’s sister, or daughter, or mother. A woman doesn't derive value from having men in her life that value and like her. A woman has value because she is made in the image and likeness of God. Period.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Hetta
It's up to parents and parents only to educate their kids basically.

By MKgal
Dismantling the belief of "boys will be boys" needs to start in home

The best way to prevent the “Boys will be Boys” and the other abuses that boys/men grow up to perpetuate is what Etta and MkGal said above.

One if the best ways parents can make a huge difference is that they teach children and DEMONSTRATE the sacredness of the scriptures. In fact the scriptures are quite clear on this as can be seen by a few scriptures reprinted below:



Deuteronomy 11:19
Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

Proverbs 22:6

6 Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.

I know that the scriptures may not be a 100% guarantee that all children/adults will not be abusers but I believe that the scriptures are the best guide and instructions for the way we should live our lives. Which in turn will greatly reduce abuses.

I just watched the CNN special on “The Sixties” and a few parts caught my attention. One was when one of the counter-culture hippe-drug leaders spoke of what the youth was looking for when they adopted the unrealistic ideology of the hippie movement. The leader said that they were spiritually empty and looking for something more than materialism and the American mainstream culture.

A person that has been taught and honors the scripture is so less likely to get convinced of an ideology that goes against scripture. In addition, they are less likely to fail to discern and separate the good from the bad. For example, the Hippie ideology of loving your brother and sister and sharing was not bad, however, when the hippie mixed in drugs and free love they violated the teachings of the scriptures and their naive destructive ideology came crumbling down.

Anti-scripture ideology is always most dangerous when mixed in with a few good attitudes and beliefs such as love and sharing.

When mankind’s spirit is empty they are vulnerable for all kinds of kooky ideas. Fill the spirit with God’s words and follow His ways and the abuses of girls/women/men and the damages done to marriages and families are much less likely! IMO

I think that this can be advantageous tfor singles and marred couples.

 

[Hetta]

When mankind’s spirit is empty they are vulnerable for all kinds of kooky ideas. Fill the spirit with God’s words and follow His ways and the abuses of girls/women/men and the damages done to marriages and families are much less likely! IMO

You can't have missed the fact that the church shrugged its shoulders at the fact that a young man was carrying out minor assaults on teenage girls, surely?

I always warned my kids that nobody had the right to touch them other than a doctor, and only then if mom/dad were present. They were told that this applied to all adults - teachers, church members, neighbors, policemen, etc ... I'm glad we did that.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Hetta
You can't have missed the fact that the church shrugged its shoulders at the fact that a young man was carrying out minor assaults on teenage girls, surely?

I do not put a lot of confidence in a church, Protestant or Catholic, to take strong action. My post was more about what you and MKgal said and that is the best preventative actions start at home. Children may not ever go to church but they will always be under the guidance and examples of their parents!

 

[Autumnleaf]

You can talk until you're blue in the face but its a waste of time.

Sons treat women the way mom lets men treat her, in a single mother household setup. In a marriage setup they tend to copy the relationship of the parents, unless they are rebelling in which case they'll act out.

The idea that you can give people a list of 35 ways to act and think is silly. If your father set you down when you were a young adult and told you 35 things about harrassment would you have diligently paid attention or would you have nodded politely at the right times as you were thinking of more important things that you would do after the wind bag dried up. Or maybe only my children are like that.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Autumnleaf
You can talk until you're blue in the face but its a waste of time.

Sons treat women the way mom lets men treat her, in a single mother household setup. In a marriage setup they tend to copy the relationship of the parents, unless they are rebelling in which case they'll act out.

The idea that you can give people a list of 35 ways to act and think is silly. If your father set you down when you were a young adult and told you 35 things about harrassment would you have diligently paid attention or would you have nodded politely at the right times as you were thinking of more important things that you would do after the wind bag dried up. Or maybe only my children are like that.

Autumnleaf


Who are you talking about?

I did not advocate giving children 35 ways to act. Did you read my post that is reprinted below? Did you notice the word DEMONSTRATE in capitals?

One if the best ways parents can make a huge difference is that they teach children and DEMONSTRATE the sacredness of the scriptures

 

[WolfGate]

autumn - if you do it as you said and sit the kids down for a single lecture, then yes, you're likely to get the response you see from your kids.

If you do as sdmsanjose is talking about, and demonstrate actions while also talking continually about what and why, then odds are much greater the children will learn and understand and mold into honorable people.

 

[WolfGate]

I cringe when I read the story about the teenagers going to the elders. Churches need to develop a process for how they handle even a hint of this type of activity so that when something happens they already have in place the steps to take. I know, it seems like that should be common sense. However, there are two common things that often occur in real situations that can be catastrophic. First, victims, particularly when abused by an authority figure or spouse/parent, often present the tip of the iceberg - sure they have said enough for anyone to see and grasp the full extent of the problem. The listener is often dealing with shock as well - they have just been told that someone they trust and know is doing something they would never have thought possible. Poor decisions are made in that situation way too often and the results of those decisions create long lasting damage for the victims and those around them.

 

[ValleyGal]

I think it's good when children go to the elders because they need to know what's going on. I would cringe if the elders did nothing about it, covered it up, did not report to the police, etc. Those children mustered up great courage to go forward and speak up. I think one of the hardest parts of speaking up is knowing who to go to, who to trust to be their advocate and walk through it with them. Often, their trust in any authority is shattered, so they just don't go forward.

 

[WolfGate]

I think it's good when children go to the elders because they need to know what's going on. I would cringe if the elders did nothing about it, covered it up, did not report to the police, etc. Those children mustered up great courage to go forward and speak up. I think one of the hardest parts of speaking up is knowing who to go to, who to trust to be their advocate and walk through it with them. Often, their trust in any authority is shattered, so they just don't go forward.

Yes, that is why I cringed at the story (in case that wasn't clear).

 

[mkgal1]

I would cringe if the elders did nothing about it, covered it up, did not report to the police, etc. Those children mustered up great courage to go forward and speak up. I think one of the hardest parts of speaking up is knowing who to go to, who to trust to be their advocate and walk through it with them. Often, their trust in any authority is shattered, so they just don't go forward.

From what was written in the article the elders *did* do nothing about it (well, besides saying, "boys will be boys") from what I can tell.

Fortunately, though, that didn't turn that boy (who is now a husband &father) who "stood with the wounded" in front of the church elders into a person that's anti-authority.....just maybe more of a realist in how pervasive today's assault culture really is. As parents, their response is:

And that is never the heart of God.

That’s what you have to get, Sons — Real Manhood knows the heart of God for the daughters of His heart.

 

[ValleyGal]

Yes, my point is summed up in the last half of my post: I think one of the hardest parts of speaking up is knowing who to go to, who to trust to be their advocate and walk through it with them. Often, their trust in any authority is shattered, so they just don't go forward.

 

[WolfGate]

Yes, my point is summed up in the last half of my post: I think one of the hardest parts of speaking up is knowing who to go to, who to trust to be their advocate and walk through it with them. Often, their trust in any authority is shattered, so they just don't go forward.

So true on the trust being shattered. There is an added dynamic that people who have suffered trauma and are afraid or unsure of how to bring it up will often float a "trial balloon", and if that balloon is not fully understood they often back away again with the exact loss of trust you indicated. It is incumbant upon authority (church and otherwise) to understand that often what they are shown initially is that trial balloon and not the full extent of what has happened. If they are not trained to accept the balloon and move forward with investigating if there is more beneath the surface, then even good people who care can miss the message and lead to the victim losing trust.

(Not saying that was the case in this story - taken as written they did more than that.)

 

[mkgal1]

I think the way this article is written it also brings up another good lesson---that trust is not really dependent upon a person's title or position, but in their perception of what really *is* just and right.

Another thing is.....just because this group of elders may have been off in their belief of "boys will be boys" doesn't automatically mean *all* their belief systems are off when it comes to God. There's that tendency (positive and negative) to sum people up solely on one belief or one response. On a larger scale, this also doesn't mean that all elder groups are going to respond the same way (even this very same group could have a different response another day).

I believe these parents (the author of the blog and her husband) are doing a great job in instructing their children how to properly discern who is "safe" and to not allow others to fully form their opinions of God.

 

[Hetta]

Autumnleaf


Who are you talking about?

I did not advocate giving children 35 ways to act. Did you read my post that is reprinted below? Did you notice the word DEMONSTRATE in capitals?

Yes. You talk AND you demonstrate. I hated lectures when I was a teenager, I wanted to see my parents walk the talk.

 

[mkgal1]

Yes. You talk AND you demonstrate. I hated lectures when I was a teenager, I wanted to see my parents walk the talk.

And really? It must be a matter of these parents (the author and her husband) demonstrating....and not just lecturing....because it was the son that initiated the conversation, and had came to the conclusion that, “I think assault culture is an assault against humanity.” Clearly......he's "catching" these lessons and not just being "taught" them.