wise men

[Macrina]

Whether three or seventy the Magi, and their treasures, would have been well guarded. Also, their whole entourage would have been impressive to say the least.

Sure -- I'm perfectly content to listen to research on the topic. I don't, however, think it will change the meaning of the scripture -- this impressive display still signified the coming of a new king, which threatened the current king. I'm not sure why this is a big deal...?

 

[izarya]

The killing of the children by Herod is also very interesting. This event is prophesied as "Rachael weeping for her children." As Leah was the mother of Judah (jews), it is likely that most of those children were Benjamites (as was Paul, and probably Peter, James, and other disciples) as their ancestral mother was Rachael. Of course Herod considered them all to be Jews, and that they were, religiously speaking.

They were called Jews because after the death of King Solomon, the kingdom split into two groups; The Northern and the Southern Kingdoms.

The Northern Kingdom is what is referred to as Israel in the books of the Prophets because it was the larger of the two being comprised of Ephraim and 9 other tribes (and a few Levites).

The Southern Kingdom was referred to simply as Judah, but was comprised of mainly of Judah, Benjamin, and the majority of Levi. Rather than differentiating between tribes, while they were in the Babylonian captivity or 'exile' their oppressors referred to them all as "Jews" which was more of a reference to their nationality, than their "religion" itself.

 

[izarya]

why is it so unlikely that god would have an army welcome his son into the world,

I agree, but according to modern Christian thought; why would God announce the birth of his son to a bunch of "star worshiping Pagans?" The Magi were of no particular "religion" and served more as stewards of the mysteries of religion in every culture.

Do some research on the Magi, they were very imprtant people and did not travel in small groups

Research will also show that they were greatly respected and humble, therefore would not travel in such pomp and grandeur. Nor was it necessary, because no one would harm these men.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

They were called Jews because after the death of King Solomon, the kingdom split into two groups; The Northern and the Southern Kingdoms.

The Northern Kingdom is what is referred to as Israel in the books of the Prophets because it was the larger of the two being comprised of Ephraim and 9 other tribes (and a few Levites).

The Southern Kingdom was referred to simply as Judah, but was comprised of mainly of Judah, Benjamin, and the majority of Levi. Rather than differentiating between tribes, while they were in the Babylonian captivity or 'exile' their oppressors referred to them all as "Jews" which was more of a reference to their nationality, than their "religion" itself.

While this is true it is interesting that the original tribal ancestry is never lost. The descendants of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin knew who they were (at the time of Christ, and maybe later as well.) This is important as it relates to the end time prophecies concerning all the tribes of Israel. While the northern kingdom is now 'lost' it must be 'found' to fulfill these prophecies. Many, including myself, believe that the WASP's comprise most, if not all, of those lost tribes.

 

[simplyg123]

quote:
I agree, but according to modern Christian thought; why would God announce the birth of his son to a bunch of "star worshiping Pagans?" The Magi were of no particular "religion" and served more as stewards of the mysteries of religion in every culture



the Magi were told of the prophecy by daniel, and they were believers of One God,as in before prophesies of jesus (from what i understand) there was mention of clean and uclean animals, i do not recall the exact reference to them though

 

[simplyg123]

you have totally got the wrong idea of these magi

 

[izarya]

you have totally got the wrong idea of these magi

Actually I don't. I'm in the middle of writing a book on the origin and structure of their belief system and the misconceptions associated with it. I am well aware of the whole concept of Jeremiah 39 and the title "Rab-Mag."

 

[simplyg123]

Actually I don't. I'm in the middle of writing a book on the origin and structure of their belief system and the misconceptions associated with it. I am well aware of the whole concept of Jeremiah 39 and the title "Rab-Mag."

well i would stop writing and do more research because, you are historically incorrect, theese men you call star worshipers were. were actually the worshipers of Our very God, they did not know of jesus yet. they were astronmers and astrologers, mathmaticians, . They were king makers and of great great importantce. I would keep studing if i were you

 

[izarya]

While this is true it is interesting that the original tribal ancestry is never lost. The descendants of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin knew who they were (at the time of Christ, and maybe later as well.) This is important as it relates to the end time prophecies concerning all the tribes of Israel. While the northern kingdom is now 'lost' it must be 'found' to fulfill these prophecies. Many, including myself, believe that the WASP's comprise most, if not all, of those lost tribes.

I am familiar with this theory, but I don't really agree personally. I have also read that the natives of North Central and South America comprise a good portion of these Lost Tribes. This seems to be supported to some extant by the writings of Esdras (Ezra) in the apocryphal 2 Esdras chapter 13.

39: And whereas thou sawest that he gathered another peaceable multitude unto him;
40: Those are the ten tribes, which were carried away prisoners out of their own land in the time of Osea the king, whom Salmanasar the king of Assyria led away captive, and he carried them over the waters, and so came they into another land.
41: But they took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42: That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43: And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44: For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45: For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.

Interestingly enough, research will show that this scripture played a vital role in Columbus' belief that there was land "out there." He also took with him Hebrew interpreters to aid him in communicating with the people he was sure he would encounter.

 

[izarya]

well i would stop writing and do more research because, you are historically incorrect, theese men you call star worshipers were. were actually the worshipers of Our very God, they did not know of jesus yet. they were astronmers and astrologers, mathmaticians, . They were king makers and of great great importantce. I would keep studing if i were you

You misunderstood. That was my fault. I was being semi sarcastic when I referred to them as "star worshiping Pagans" because that is the way most Christians see anything that is not Christian. I am well aware that they were indeed worshipers of the One True God.
Abraham was counted among their ranks.

 

[simplyg123]

QUOTE:"The Magi were of no particular "religion""

this is your exact quote, yet you know they worship the one true God.

Its like your in a crashing plane and your trying to pull up

PULL UP !!!! PULL UP!!!

sorry just messin around

 

[izarya]

QUOTE:"The Magi were of no particular "religion""

this is your exact quote, yet you know they worship the one true God.

Its like your in a crashing plane and your trying to pull up

PULL UP !!!! PULL UP!!!

sorry just messin around

As far as I know, the One True God never gave man Religion, that was man's invention.

 

[simplyg123]

As far as I know, the One True God never gave man Religion, that was man's invention.

religion = beliving in (my words, not dictionary)
magi = beleaving in One God
Magi = Has religion

 

[Yeznik]

The Three Wisemen?


My Church did a study recently on the "3 wisemen". I soon learned something that was amazing.

Mat 2:1¶Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him
"I believe King Herod was also called that"

Mat 2:3When Herod the king had heard [these things], he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

Now why would this be, why is all of jerusalem and A mighty King Herod troubled by 3 wise men??



well our study exposed the truth, the truth is their werent 3 wisemen, there were anywhere from 70 - 200, not to mention they traveled with over 1000 Guards, and they did not ride on camels, But the mighty steeds.

this would explain why Herod was so troubled along with the wholde city.


Our research showed us these wisemen were the Magi, which were thought to be arround since abraham. you can also read of them in Daniel

Actually there is an Armenian (legend) about the wise men. I will go into details at a later post. There is a book called the Armenian Gospel of Infancy.

 

[izarya]

religion = beliving in (my words, not dictionary)
magi = beleaving in One God
Magi = Has religion

Poppycock!
You need the dictionary to comprehend the full scope of the definitions of words, since the ability of words to communicate with us are limited by our understanding of them (or lack thereof).

Truth has nothing to do with religion and dogma, religion merely resembles truth. Truth transcends religious barriers.

The Magi comprehended this, thus had no need of religion.

Religion (especially ancient religion) separates cultures, Had the Magi (being presumably Persian) been "religious" they would not have come to pay homage to him that was born King of the Jews.

 

[christianmomof3]

Poppycock!

I never heard or saw anyone use that word before. (Although I have read it somewhere.) That is funny.

 

[simplyg123]

Poppycock!
You need the dictionary to comprehend the full scope of the definitions of words, since the ability of words to communicate with us are limited by our understanding of them (or lack thereof).

Truth has nothing to do with religion and dogma, religion merely resembles truth. Truth transcends religious barriers.

The Magi comprehended this, thus had no need of religion.

Religion (especially ancient religion) separates cultures, Had the Magi (being presumably Persian) been "religious" they would not have come to pay homage to him that was born King of the Jews.

i have here a couple links, check them out, yourself

http://www.thedyinggod.com/chaldeanmagi/index.html
http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=transcripts&aid=215972

 

[izarya]

i have here a couple links, check them out, yourself

http://www.thedyinggod.com/chaldeanmagi/index.html
http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=transcripts&aid=215972

I Already have the first link as a resource, but the second one...
let's just say that when it comes to study, I put my religious orientation aside and do not utilize anything written from any particular religious view as the information is usually biased, especially when it concerns a faith or practice that is not necessarily in line with those of the author.

There is also historical evidence that the Magi were around before Zoraster. One text that I have come across even suggests that an ancient sect of Magoi put Zoraster to death.

 

[CoolWater]

I want to know, where are all the wisemen today? It seems we need them more than ever.

 

[izarya]

I want to know, where are all the wisemen today? It seems we need them more than ever.

Staying as far away from mainstream conventional religion as possible.