Wines Of The Bible

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The full spiritual meaning of the Holy Days were never understood by the Israelites of old. They were revealed by Christ to the church under the New Covenant. My point was not the meaning of the feasts, but how they were actually observed.

 

[k4c]

OntheDL; Didn't you say you prefer NKJV? Now you quote from NLT because it fits your belief better?

KJV and even NKJV tell a different story, don't they?

KJV 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

NKJV 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;

I didn't quote it from the NLT to fit my belief, I quoted it from the NLT to help you see it better because the words, "Not given to wine" is the same as the words "Not drinking too much" "Not given to too much wine""Must not be a heavy drinker". Either way, this is talking about fermented wine and how a deacon is not to drink too much of it.

Again, what you are doing is text proving: taking text out of context to fit your agenda.

You quoted Number 6:20 to show the Nazarites 'may drink wine'. But in the context it was a part of the sacrificial ceremony to eat the sacrifice and drink the drink offering (grape juice) to mark the completion of the Nazarite vow while you totally ignored a few verses early it forbids the Nazarites to drink alcohol. Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

The word used for wine in Numbers 6:20 is the Hebrew word, yayin, Strong's #h3196 which means fermented wine.

Numbers 6:20 'and the priest shall wave them as a wave offering before the LORD; they [are] holy for the priest, together with the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the heave offering. After that the Nazirite may drink wine (yayin).'

There is another Hebrew word for wine which is the word, tiyrowsh, Strong's #h8492. This word is used for fresh grape juice.

Genesis 27:37 Then Isaac answered and said to Esau, "Indeed I have made him your master, and all his brethren I have given to him as servants; with grain and wine (tiyrowsh) I have sustained him. What shall I do now for you, my son?"

Furthermore the use of alcohol is strictly forbidden inside of the sanctuary on the penalty of death.

Leviticus 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

No doubt there are times and areas where alcohol consumption is forbiden. I'm not allowed to drink on my job but that does not mean drinking wine in general is a sin.

The burnt offerings were by-law accompanied by drink offerings: unfermented grape juice.

Yeah, so?

It's petty because you have been on CF for how long? Almost 10 years, and as far as I can remember since I joined in 05/06, you have been posting the same type of posts. You have never grown to the weightier matter of our faith: the core, fundamental beliefs.

Do you know how many relationships were and are destroyed because of this false belief that drinking wine is a sin? Do you know how many people, who know the truth, refuse to attend SDA churches because of this false belief? Do you know how many people refuse the truth we do have because of the wrong teaching of wine use? They say, "Hey, if they're wrong on wine use they could be wrong on the Sabbath and the state of the dead" and so on. I don't care how long I've been posting the truth on this forum, I want people to see that not all SDA's believe as you do. Abstaining from fermented wine is a personal choice, not a biblical command. I personally would encourage people to abstain just because of the negativity alcohol use manifests and the fact that it can cause a weak brother stumble. But not because it's a command from God. To say it's a command from God to abstain, outside of a personal choice, is going one step further than the Bible allows.

Sound biblical truth is established by what the bible teaches as a while, not by text-proving the way you manipulate the text. The bible does not endorse alcohol consumption and it can not contradict itself. In the OT, God condemns the use of alcohol and warns against the evil nature of alcohol: calling it bites like a serpent, stings like an adder and makes you think and do perverse things, calling whosoever drink strong drink is not wise, admonishing anyone from drinking strong drink and pronouncing it a curse to drink strong drink.

Psalms 104:14-15 God causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; And wine (yayin) that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Genesis 14:18-19 "Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and WINE (yayin); he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said: "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth;".

There are many more verses that speak positive regarding using fermented wine, but I'll stop at two even though one would be enough.

How do you reconcile these teachings with your interpretation of the few verses you quoted?

There is a time to drink fermented wine and a time not to drink it. It's like that in the secular world too.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23

Before continuing with the verse, let us also ask, what is the context of this verse, in the immediate [local, chapter], surrounding [regional, book] and even wider perspective [global, Bible], and what does Paul mean by this? Let us look at all of 1 Timothy and also consider 2 Timothy and elsewhere of Scripture to see together what Paul says to Timothy, so that we will not misunderstand or misuse the text to our own destruction, even as Peter hast said of Paul's epistles:

As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

It would be very dangerous to assume in this instance that Paul advocated to Timothy to drink fermented [alcoholic] "wine". We need to be most cautious and careful, lest we advocate sin and rebellion towards the Word of God. We are warned in the Epistles to Timothy by the Holy Spirit Himself that such dangers would come, even from those professing Christianity and having a "form of godliness" but are rather "deceived" and "speaking lies in hypocrisy":

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 4:1

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1 Timothy 4:2

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 Timothy 3:1

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2 Timothy 3:2

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 2 Timothy 3:3

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2 Timothy 3:4

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3:5

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 2 Timothy 3:8

But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was. 2 Timothy 3:9

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2 Timothy 4:3

And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:4

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1 Timothy 1:6

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 1 Timothy 1:7

[This very time that has come in our day, of "perilous times" when many "evil men" and "seducers" are waxing "worse and worse", "deceiving and being deceived", and are not enduring "sound doctrine" and have begun to "turn away [their] ears from the truth", even "unto fables" and they withstand the truth and "resist the truth", preaching to be "unholy" and "incontinent", even as "Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses" or as Alexander who has, "greatly withstood our words" [2 Timothy 4:5]. Let not one of us be among that number of those who have departed "from the faith", "having swerved aside unto vain jangling" and "desiring to be teachers of the law" but yet "understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm", and so let us not be counted as one who resists Him [who first loved us], blaspheming the Holy Spirit.]

We are to be as Paul has exhorted Timothy, to "keep thyself pure", and to be "sober", "grave", "blameless", an "example of the believers...in conversation...in purity", doing "nothing by partiality", exercising ourselves unto "godliness", nourished up unto "good doctrine", and "good works", being "not given to wine", but to rather be most "vigiliant", continuing in "holiness with sobriety", with "shamefacedness", being of "good report", so that we may "lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty", doing that which "is good and acceptable before God", departing "from iniquity" and not "giving heed to fables", having "made shipwreck" of the faith by "seducers" and "evil men", and not to be "turned aside after satan" doing, teaching and partaking of other "men's sins" and of those things which are "contrary to sound doctrine" which gives the devil "occasion...to speak reproachfully". Please read and look for those words:

1 Timothy 1:1 --> 1 Timothy 6:21
2 Timothy 1:1 --> 2 Timothy 4:22

For our doctrine of food must be according to the clear and pure Word of God, it must first be "sanctified by the Word of God" and we must by "prayer" ask Him in faith to know the truth, and so "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" and have our "instruction in righteousness" and "thoroughly furnished unto all good works" having been called with "an holy calling" and so not to drink of the fermented wine, the very symbol of corrupted doctrine, rebellion, confusion and hypocrisy, that "cruel" venomous beverage of "Belial" [1 Samuel 1:15-16] that "biteth like a serpent" and "stingeth like an adder" and of those who teach that it is acceptable to partake of it, scripture says that they "concerning the truth have erred ... and overthrow the faith of some" and who, unless they repent and turn, will "increase unto more ungodliness".

So, when Paul, after exhorting for so long about those things of "godliness", "sobriety", "vigiliance" and "truth" and the stark contrast of "ungodliness", "evil", "sin" and "error", etc, when then of the text at hand?

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23

Let us look closer at each individual part:

"Drink no longer water, but..."

"...use a little wine for..."

"...thy stomach's sake and..."

"...thine often infirmaties."

Let us consider as we shall, that many times Luke [“Only Luke is with me. ...” 2 Timothy 4:11;p], the beloved physician, was with Paul on his journeyings, and so could help with medical advice about health concerning "infirmaties" which Timothy seemed to have and that concering his "stomach's sake". Let us begin to consider what is being said by Paul to Timothy, by what we have learned in those Epistles and shall yet learn from the "scriptures" on the subject of "wine", for far be it from us to build a doctrine from scripture to advocate the drinking of alcohol from such a text as this when all of the context itself goes against such an idea to begin with.

 

[k4c]

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23

Before continuing with the verse, let us also ask, what is the context of this verse, in the immediate [local, chapter], surrounding [regional, book] and even wider perspective [global, Bible], and what does Paul mean by this? Let us look at all of 1 Timothy and also consider 2 Timothy and elsewhere of Scripture to see together what Paul says to Timothy, so that we will not misunderstand or misuse the text to our own destruction, even as Peter hast said of Paul's epistles:

As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

It would be very dangerous to assume in this instance that Paul advocated to Timothy to drink fermented [alcoholic] "wine". We need to be most cautious and careful, lest we advocate sin and rebellion towards the Word of God. We are warned in the Epistles to Timothy by the Holy Spirit Himself that such dangers would come, even from those professing Christianity and having a "form of godliness" but are rather "deceived" and "speaking lies in hypocrisy":

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 4:1

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1 Timothy 4:2

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 Timothy 3:1

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 2 Timothy 3:2

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 2 Timothy 3:3

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 2 Timothy 3:4

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3:5

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 2 Timothy 3:8

But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was. 2 Timothy 3:9

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2 Timothy 4:3

And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:4

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1 Timothy 1:6

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 1 Timothy 1:7

[This very time that has come in our day, of "perilous times" when many "evil men" and "seducers" are waxing "worse and worse", "deceiving and being deceived", and are not enduring "sound doctrine" and have begun to "turn away [their] ears from the truth", even "unto fables" and they withstand the truth and "resist the truth", preaching to be "unholy" and "incontinent", even as "Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses" or as Alexander who has, "greatly withstood our words" [2 Timothy 4:5]. Let not one of us be among that number of those who have departed "from the faith", "having swerved aside unto vain jangling" and "desiring to be teachers of the law" but yet "understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm", and so let us not be counted as one who resists Him [who first loved us], blaspheming the Holy Spirit.]

We are to be as Paul has exhorted Timothy, to "keep thyself pure", and to be "sober", "grave", "blameless", an "example of the believers...in conversation...in purity", doing "nothing by partiality", exercising ourselves unto "godliness", nourished up unto "good doctrine", and "good works", being "not given to wine", but to rather be most "vigiliant", continuing in "holiness with sobriety", with "shamefacedness", being of "good report", so that we may "lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty", doing that which "is good and acceptable before God", departing "from iniquity" and not "giving heed to fables", having "made shipwreck" of the faith by "seducers" and "evil men", and not to be "turned aside after satan" doing, teaching and partaking of other "men's sins" and of those things which are "contrary to sound doctrine" which gives the devil "occasion...to speak reproachfully". Please read and look for those words:

1 Timothy 1:1 --> 1 Timothy 6:21
2 Timothy 1:1 --> 2 Timothy 4:22

For our doctrine of food must be according to the clear and pure Word of God, it must first be "sanctified by the Word of God" and we must by "prayer" ask Him in faith to know the truth, and so "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" and have our "instruction in righteousness" and "thoroughly furnished unto all good works" having been called with "an holy calling" and so not to drink of the fermented wine, the very symbol of corrupted doctrine, rebellion, confusion and hypocrisy, that "cruel" venomous beverage of "Belial" [1 Samuel 1:15-16] that "biteth like a serpent" and "stingeth like an adder" and of those who teach that it is acceptable to partake of it, scripture says that they "concerning the truth have erred ... and overthrow the faith of some" and who, unless they repent and turn, will "increase unto more ungodliness".

So, when Paul, after exhorting for so long about those things of "godliness", "sobriety", "vigiliance" and "truth" and the stark contrast of "ungodliness", "evil", "sin" and "error", etc, when then of the text at hand?

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23

Let us look closer at each individual part:

"Drink no longer water, but..."

"...use a little wine for..."

"...thy stomach's sake and..."

"...thine often infirmaties."

Let us consider as we shall, that many times Luke [“Only Luke is with me. ...” 2 Timothy 4:11;p], the beloved physician, was with Paul on his journeyings, and so could help with medical advice about health concerning "infirmaties" which Timothy seemed to have and that concering his "stomach's sake". Let us begin to consider what is being said by Paul to Timothy, by what we have learned in those Epistles and shall yet learn from the "scriptures" on the subject of "wine", for far be it from us to build a doctrine from scripture to advocate the drinking of alcohol from such a text as this when all of the context itself goes against such an idea to begin with.

I'm biting my tongue... I have to let the Holy Spirit shine His light on what I've already posted.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I'm biting my tongue... I have to let the Holy Spirit shine His light on what I've already posted.

Let us all be persuaded in our own minds

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. 1 Timothy 5:23[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]"Drink no longer water, but..."[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]"...use a little wine for..."[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]"...thy stomach's sake and..."[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]"...thine often infirmaties."[/FONT]

Other translations also help to bring out what Paul is saying to Timothy:

Bible in Basic English
5:23 Do not take only water as your drink, but take a little wine for the good of your stomach, and because you are frequently ill.

World English Bible
5:23 Be no longer a drinker of water only, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities.

Young's Literal Translation
5:23 no longer be drinking water, but a little wine be using, because of thy stomach and of thine often infirmities;

etc...

We see that Timothy was only a "water drinker" and was refusing to accept any "wine" [pure grape juice]. Why should this be so? For Timothy was very strict in his duty toward God, in that he understood "that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way" [Romans 14:13;p], "take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak" [1 Corinthians 8:9;p], he being exhorted to be an "example of the believers" and was making sure that he ate or drank nothing that would by outward appearance cause the downfall of another:

Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:22,

... for it was obvious to "abstain from all evil" and yet also better still to even "abstain from all appearance of evil", for some in the scripture have not that knowledge of the difference between "wine" [unfermented; grape juice] and "wine" [fermented; alcohol], and from this second, many were taken by its evil, while others still were to even place blame upon those partaking of the first, just as had been done at Pentecost by the unbelievers ["mocking"; Acts 2:13] and also of those concerning the meats and idols.

"Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge:..." 1 Corinthians 8:7;p

"... to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;" Colossians 1:9;p

And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 1 Corintians 13:2

Timothy, just as Paul, would rather "drink water only" in Christian "charity" [love] than cause anyone to stumble even over that which is perfectly fine to partake of according to the Word of God [in this case, the grape juice]. He was placing himself in more of a "nazarite" position, "sober", "grave", "sobriety", "pure", "holy", etc, by conscious choice, without actually taking any such vow. However, it seemed he was doing so even at the cost of his own health, which was unsafe, in his condition, to do.

Paul then gives advice [likely by the aid of Luke the physician and Holy Spirit] on this condition of Timothy, in letting him know that he could relax on the severe strictness of his current position [which was to partake not even of the pure fruit of the vine], without compromise to integrity and conscience, in saying to Timothy, "Drink no longer water, but..." so that he may "...use a little wine..." [grape juice] "...for..." his particular "stomach" ailments and "often infirmaties".

It is well known of the powerful antioxidants and curative properties of the pure grape juice, especially in stomach ailments and other infirmaties, for it is truly a "revitalizing" drink, full of flavonoids, vitamins, etc. Medical research is confirming even the scriptures here.

However, to recommend alcoholic beverage to someone constantly ill and suffering from stomach ailments would cause them greater harm and suffering.

In fact, Timothy could mix the two [water and grapejuice] even reducing the strength of the grape juice by cutting it or mixing it with water, in case others may yet complain that Timothy had become a "winebibber" and "drunkard" [as the Pharisees had falsely accused and so done to Jesus]:

"...thy wine mixed with water." Isaiah 1:22;p

The disciples could drink the juice of the grape [that "fruit of the vine" or “new wine”, being unfermented], as had been done at the Wedding in Cana, the Passover [wave sheaf and "first-fruits", the time of the "first ripe grapes", even that which came directly from "the vine" and "branches", "the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes", "took the grapes, and pressed them into ... cup", or from the "winepresses" which are "burst out with new wine", being the thanks giving of "joy and gladness" of the "blessing" from God of the great harvest to come, etc] and at Pentecost, etc.

However, even as Paul has said elsewhere, that even that which is normally good [pure juice of the grape], may not be immediately expedient or edifying in certain situations [just as was the [clean] meats]:

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 1 Corinthians 6:12

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. 1 Corinthians 10:23

It would be the same as someone personally abstaining from Carob [perfectly fine to eat, even healthy] from people who may have health issues and dietary problems with their choice of chocolate. Or like eating almond/soy/oat "ice cream" in front of them which have issues in their own diet [perhaps they cannot yet cease from sweets or even dangerous sugars, thus becoming diabetics].

Paul would never advocate or recommend to Timothy an action which could lead to his downfall, stumbling, causing others to stumble, into sin, or to a practice which could lead away from Christ Jesus and/or "cause one to forget" His Law and Word.

Alcohol is an intoxicant, a posion and causes one to not be in full control of their senses or reasoning.

Yet the pure Juice of the Grape and unfermented was revitalizing and refreshing, excellent for health and restoration, quickening the mind and body:

And what the land [is], whether it [be] fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now the time [was] the time of the firstripe grapes. Numbers 13:20

And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee. Deuteronomy 7:13

And when David was a little past the top [of the hill], behold, Ziba the servant of Mephibosheth met him, with a couple of asses saddled, and upon them two hundred [loaves] of bread, and an hundred bunches of raisins, and an hundred of summer fruits, and a bottle of wine. 2 Samuel 16:1

And the king said unto Ziba, What meanest thou by these? And Ziba said, The asses [be] for the king's household to ride on; and the bread and summer fruit for the young men to eat; and the wine, that such as be faint in the wilderness may drink. 2 Samuel 16:2

Who would give alcohol [known to cause dehydration], to someone "faint in the wilderness"? What physician or Apostle would give advice to Timothy to drink alcohol for his illness? "Foolishness" and "folly" of those who try to turn the "blessing" and "gift of God" and His judgment into "gall" and of His righteousness into "hemlock" [Amos 6:12].

 

[Torah]

.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

A "Nazarite" [either man/woman] could not partake of anything "made of the vine tree, from kernels even to the husk" while under the days of his/her "vow of a Nazarite", in his/her "separation".

Any Hebrew/Jew, not under such a vow [or some other special occurance or vow], could partake of the "wine" [unfermented, pure juice of the grape] in joyous celebrations, such as at the harvest feasts, weddings, sabbaths, etc., however, the Nazarite vow was to also even exclude even this grapejuice drink and all else that came from "the vine tree" ["wine" [unfermented or fermented], "strong drink", "vinegar of wine", "vinegar of strong drink", "liquor of grapes", "moist grapes", or "dried", etc.]:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate [themselves] to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate [themselves] unto the LORD: Numbers 6:2

He shall separate [himself] from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. Numbers 6:3

All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk. Numbers 6:4

It was only after the "days of his separation" "unto the LORD" were completed, and the person brought to the "door of the Tabernacle of the congregation " [Temple/church] with "a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings" and then the Priest was to "take the sodden shoulder of the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one unleavened wafer, and shall put [them] upon the hands of the Nazarite, after [the hair of] his separation is shaven".

So once the Nazarite vow was over, he/she could then go back to being able to partake of the "wine" of "joy", "rejoicing" and "blessing", the unleavened pure juice of the grape, as other Hebrew/Jews could [that were not under vows, etc]. But, as it is said, in many places of God's Holy Word [some of which has already been listed previously], the fermented "wine" of "sorrow", "woe" and "cursing" was to be avoided afterwards, even if it had not been before the vow. The whole point of the Nazarite vow was to "to separate [themselves] unto the LORD" in a special manner, and at the end to be presented before the "door of the Tabernacle of the congregation", which was the Temple/Church, with that which was unleavened, symbol of purity.

And the priest shall wave them [for] a wave offering before the LORD: this [is] holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine. Numbers 6:20

All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth [himself] unto the LORD, he shall be holy, [and] shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow. Numbers 6:5

All the days that he separateth [himself] unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body. Numbers 6:6

He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God [is] upon his head. Numbers 6:7

All the days of his separation he [is] holy unto the LORD. Numbers 6:8

...

And this [is] the law of the Nazarite, when the days of his separation are fulfilled: he shall be brought unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: Numbers 6:13

And he shall offer his offering unto the LORD, one he lamb of the first year without blemish for a burnt offering, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish for a sin offering, and one ram without blemish for peace offerings, Numbers 6:14

And a basket of unleavened bread, cakes of fine flour mingled with oil, and wafers of unleavened bread anointed with oil, and their meat offering, and their drink offerings. Numbers 6:15

And the priest shall bring [them] before the LORD, and shall offer his sin offering, and his burnt offering: Numbers 6:16

And he shall offer the ram [for] a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD, with the basket of unleavened bread: the priest shall offer also his meat offering, and his drink offering. Numbers 6:17

And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation [at] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put [it] in the fire which [is] under the sacrifice of the peace offerings. Numbers 6:18

And the priest shall take the sodden shoulder of the ram, and one unleavened cake out of the basket, and one unleavened wafer, and shall put [them] upon the hands of the Nazarite, after [the hair of] his separation is shaven: Numbers 6:19

And the priest shall wave them [for] a wave offering before the LORD: this [is] holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine. Numbers 6:20

This [is] the law of the Nazarite who hath vowed, [and of] his offering unto the LORD for his separation, beside [that] that his hand shall get: according to the vow which he vowed, so he must do after the law of his separation. Numbers 6:21

Another example of the Nazarite vow can be found in Judges 13 - Manoah, his wife and her child, Samson. She was told that even her actions and choices were to affect the child. She was told not to eat anything "unclean" either, even as the Nazarites and any Hebrew/Jew truly following God from their heart were also not to do. We can know by the Word of God, that even after she had weened Samson, and Samson was grown, still neither were to eat of the "unclean":

But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean [thing]: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death. Judges 13:7

This same principle applies to the fermented "wine". For the laws of God on this subject of the fermented "wine" have not changed:

And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; Leviticus 10:10.

That a Nazarite vow ended and ritual accomplished, and the scripture says, "after that the Nazarite may drink wine". "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD," and ask, "Which of the two "wine" [unfermented or fermented] does God [the very God who loves us and created us and redeemed us, and the very same God of our Health and body Temples] mean is again allowable for them of His "chosen" people [Exodus 6:7; etc.], His "peculiar treasure" [Exodus 19:5; etc.] which had accomplished their Nazarite vow?"

Shall we begin to think that God actually means that they which completed their Nazarite vow could now freely partake of that fermented "wine", that "wine" of "sorrow", "woe", "contentions", "wounds", "babbling", that "biteth like a serpent", "stingeth like an adder", the "cruel venom of asps" and the "poison of dragons" [all symbols of the serpent, the devil and satan], and wherein "thine heart shall utter perverse things"?

Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. Proverbs 31:5

Is "...Christ [Jesus] the minister of sin? God forbid!" [Galatians 2:17;p]

Is God Holy or no? Does He not declare that we also should be Holy?

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1 Peter 1:15

Scripture is clear, God is clear:

Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright. Proverbs 23:31

When sin entered into this world, things of the natural world changed. Weeds, thorns and unconsumable things entered in, along with Death and corruption.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. ..." Matthew 7:16;p [see also Matthew 7:20]

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit. Matthew 12:13 [see also Luke 6:44]

Though the passages are speaking about people, it can also be applied to any number of things. Alcohol produces what kind of "fruit"/results in any amount? Wickedness, sloth, depravity, disease, wounds, death and sin ["...the fruit of the wicked to sin." [Proverbs 10:16;p]]. There is a reason that it is in many places called "spirits", "unclean spirits" associate themsleves with it and their worship.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

In 1 and 2 Corinthians we are given several examples of how bad a church can become when they leave off of true doctrine and from following Christ Jesus. Paul is constantly trying to set to rights the happenings in this particular church.

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul begins by again setting forth a true example:

Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1

Paul then, after again reprimanding the church for indecent behavior, continues with events even more serious, namely that of the communion of the saints in the "Lord's Supper":

Now in this that I declare [unto you] I praise [you] not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 1 Corinthians 11:17

It was not that Paul advocated anything that they were doing, for they were obviously doing everything wrong and in the wrong spirit, and it was truly a fallen condition, for there were "divisions", and worse still, "heresies":

For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 1 Corinthians 11:18

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19

When this poor church gathered together for this occasion, they came together in haphazard and chaotic fashion, eating and drinking what they would, a bacchanal feast of drunkeness and gluttony, rather than the sober meal of remembrance of the love of Christ Jesus and His death for us/them [Luke 22:19]:

When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is not to eat the Lord's supper. 1 Corinthians 11:20

For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 1 Corinthians 11:21

This fallen church was bringing their own food to eat and their own concoctions to drink [fermented beverages]. This was in no way approved by Paul in any manner, and in fact is part of the "heresies" he spake of that were "manifested". So, they did not come together in the manner as Christ Jesus commanded, but rather in their own way and manner. They were not worshipping God, and so Paul says, if you do not want to worship the true God in spirit and in truth and come together in communion, go home and "not worship" God there, rather than parade such licentiousness in the church of the Living God...,

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] not. 1 Corinthians 11:22

As is plain, Paul in no way "praise" them ["I praise [you] not"], but rather rebukes their iniquity and foolishness, that they could so openly "despise ... the church of God".

Paul gives in the clearest language how the "Lord's Supper" was to be rightly conducted in all reverence and holiness and purity and in soberness:

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: 1 Corinthians 11:23

And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 1 Corinthians 11:24

What kind of "bread" was this to be? "Unleavened", for in the "[same] night" was the reference to the night of the Passover meal, in which absolutely no "leaven" was to be anywhere in the house. Then Paul follows with:

After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. 1 Corinthians 11:25

What "cup" was this to be? The "cup of blessing which we bless", the very "cup" of the "unleaven" of the Passover meal, which afterward becomes the "Lord's Supper", and the "cup" was filled with the "fruit of the vine", as at the Lord's table, the pure juice of the grape - the pure "blood" of the "New Testament".

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 1 Corinthians 10:6

Scripture is clear that the "wine" of the "cup" was to be a "blessing", unfermented "wine", for it represents the pure blood and sinlessness of Christ Jesus:

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 1 Corinthians 11:26

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 11:27

And each person was to "examine" themselves, and ask God to search their hearts, and to have partaken of an alcoholic beverage, would not have allowed this to happen, as the fermented drink would becloud the mind, distort the memory, impair judgment and allow the influence of satan to gain a greater advantage, and thus they would be "guilty" of the "blood of the Lord":

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 1 Corinthians 11:28

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 1 Corinthians 11:29

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5

Those who failed to do so and "eateth" and "drinketh" "unworthily" [such as fermented "wine" would be, unworthy], and still continue in their wickedness:

For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Corinthians 11:30

An acoholic beverage causes one to not have clear judgment or discernment and cannot honor God rightly, for these were "weak", "sickly" and many "sleep" [fermented stupor, even as a symbol of darkness and death], thus being impossible to reverence God for His "so great salvation" and "love" or give to Him pure and true worship:

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 1 Corinthians 11:31

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 1 Corinthians 11:32

Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 1 Corinthians 11:33

Those who had made such a wreck of the "Lord's Supper" were coming together "unto condemnation". Paul no where approves of the uses of alcohol that were present in this church gathering, but even sterner still, "and the rest will I set in order when I come", and would cast them out of the church who would not cease from their evil ways:

And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. 1 Corinthians 11:34

Advocating alcoholic "wine" for consumption from these texts is extremely dangerous to do to one's salvation, as it would present the Lord Jesus Christ in such a manner so as to make Him the dispenser of corruption and disorder.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1 John 3:5

 

[k4c]

In 1 and 2 Corinthians we are given several examples of how bad a church can become when they leave off of true doctrine and from following Christ Jesus. Paul is constantly trying to set to rights the happenings in this particular church.

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul begins by again setting forth a true example:

Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1

Paul then, after again reprimanding the church for indecent behavior, continues with events even more serious, namely that of the communion of the saints in the "Lord's Supper":

Now in this that I declare [unto you] I praise [you] not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 1 Corinthians 11:17

It was not that Paul advocated anything that they were doing, for they were obviously doing everything wrong and in the wrong spirit, and it was truly a fallen condition, for there were "divisions", and worse still, "heresies":

For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 1 Corinthians 11:18

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19

When this poor church gathered together for this occasion, they came together in haphazard and chaotic fashion, eating and drinking what they would, a bacchanal feast of drunkeness and gluttony, rather than the sober meal of remembrance of the love of Christ Jesus and His death for us/them [Luke 22:19]:

When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is not to eat the Lord's supper. 1 Corinthians 11:20

For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 1 Corinthians 11:21

This fallen church was bringing their own food to eat and their own concoctions to drink [fermented beverages]. This was in no way approved by Paul in any manner, and in fact is part of the "heresies" he spake of that were "manifested". So, they did not come together in the manner as Christ Jesus commanded, but rather in their own way and manner. They were not worshipping God, and so Paul says, if you do not want to worship the true God in spirit and in truth and come together in communion, go home and "not worship" God there, rather than parade such licentiousness in the church of the Living God...,

What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] not. 1 Corinthians 11:22

As is plain, Paul in no way "praise" them ["I praise [you] not"], but rather rebukes their iniquity and foolishness, that they could so openly "despise ... the church of God".

Paul gives in the clearest language how the "Lord's Supper" was to be rightly conducted in all reverence and holiness and purity and in soberness:

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: 1 Corinthians 11:23

And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 1 Corinthians 11:24

What kind of "bread" was this to be? "Unleavened", for in the "[same] night" was the reference to the night of the Passover meal, in which absolutely no "leaven" was to be anywhere in the house. Then Paul follows with:

After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. 1 Corinthians 11:25

What "cup" was this to be? The "cup of blessing which we bless", the very "cup" of the "unleaven" of the Passover meal, which afterward becomes the "Lord's Supper", and the "cup" was filled with the "fruit of the vine", as at the Lord's table, the pure juice of the grape - the pure "blood" of the "New Testament".

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 1 Corinthians 10:6

Scripture is clear that the "wine" of the "cup" was to be a "blessing", unfermented "wine", for it represents the pure blood and sinlessness of Christ Jesus:

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 1 Corinthians 11:26

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 11:27

And each person was to "examine" themselves, and ask God to search their hearts, and to have partaken of an alcoholic beverage, would not have allowed this to happen, as the fermented drink would becloud the mind, distort the memory, impair judgment and allow the influence of satan to gain a greater advantage, and thus they would be "guilty" of the "blood of the Lord":

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 1 Corinthians 11:28

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 1 Corinthians 11:29

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Corinthians 13:5

Those who failed to do so and "eateth" and "drinketh" "unworthily" [such as fermented "wine" would be, unworthy], and still continue in their wickedness:

For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1 Corinthians 11:30

An acoholic beverage causes one to not have clear judgment or discernment and cannot honor God rightly, for these were "weak", "sickly" and many "sleep" [fermented stupor, even as a symbol of darkness and death], thus being impossible to reverence God for His "so great salvation" and "love" or give to Him pure and true worship:

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 1 Corinthians 11:31

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 1 Corinthians 11:32

Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 1 Corinthians 11:33

Those who had made such a wreck of the "Lord's Supper" were coming together "unto condemnation". Paul no where approves of the uses of alcohol that were present in this church gathering, but even sterner still, "and the rest will I set in order when I come", and would cast them out of the church who would not cease from their evil ways:

And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. 1 Corinthians 11:34

Advocating alcoholic "wine" for consumption from these texts is extremely dangerous to do to one's salvation, as it would present the Lord Jesus Christ in such a manner so as to make Him the dispenser of corruption and disorder.

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 1 John 3:5

You could save yourself a lot of time and ink if you would just read and understand. The issue at the Lord's supper was not about what they ate and drunk, but rather, how they ate and drank.

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Romans 14, so often abused, "wrested" and misused by all manner and walks to justify the breaking of God's Laws [antinomian], not only of the very Ten Commandments [the 4th Commandment in particular, the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord thy God] and also of the Health laws [from self-sanctifying the "unclean" for consumption to the drinking and consumption of alcohol], etc.

"Unclean", God's Word clearly says,"Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing." (Dt 14:3)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7561668/

The 7th Day "the Sabbath of the Lord thy God", God's Word is clearly spoken in awesome majesty in Ex 20:8-11.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7561463/

Beginning in Rm 14:

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations. Rm 14:1

We are dealing not with the abolition or setting aside of Gods Commandments or Laws, but rather we are dealing with Christians [followers of God in His Commandments and ways] that are "weak in the faith", but not to "doubtful disputations". The "weak in faith" were to be "receive[d]" [Rm 15:7] and helped.

The 4th Commandment and the Health Laws of Clean and Unclean, and that between Holy and unholy were never ever "doubtful" [Ex 20:8-11; Dt; Lv and Isa 66:17, etc].

In Rm 14:5 we see even further that we are still dealing with what "man esteemeth" [that which is allowable in following after Christ Jesus] and not what God esteems as permanent, right and so.

Fermented "wine" was always associated with false worship [1 Sam 1:15-16; "belial"]:

And they lay [themselves] down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned [in] the house of their god. Amos 2:8

Fermented "wine" was always associated with wickedness, transgression and lawlessness:

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isa 5:20

Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Isa 5:22

Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Isa 5:23

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, [so] their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isa 5:24

Who is it that drinks when the "wine is red" and "full of mixture"? The "wicked of the earth" and they shall "drink" the "dregs thereof".

In Rm 14:7, Paul makes it clear that we are to live unto Christ Jesus [who Created and Redeemed us, purchased us by His own blood] and that no man is an island unto himself, and that our choices affect not only ourselves, but also those around us:

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. Rm 14:7

For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. Rm 14:8

In Rm 14:10, we also see that dealing with incorrect judging and judgment of/by other Christians, over such personal matters of "fasting", "vows", "feasting/mourning" ["days" associated with "eating" or not "eating"] practices and also the matter of what to do with that which had been, or possibly was at one point in close connection with or associated with an idol [which is nothing, but some have not the knowledge, and all things edify not]:

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Rm 14:10

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Rm 14:12

Therefore, the matter was Christian "charity"[love] not being expressed as it ought:

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. Rm 14:13

In order to understand the context of Rm 14:14-23, and to not "wrest" the scriptures, other texts should also be considered:

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean. Rm 14:14

[It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Rms 14:21

"...being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,..." 1 Cor 9:21;p

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Rm 6:15

Read also 1 Cor 8 and 10, for that which was not "unclean of itself" is given there.

Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 1 Cor 8:7

So, we see that Pauls use of "all things" is limited to that which was permissible within the clear Laws and Instruction of God. The unfermented "wine" was fine to drink normally, but it could still be a problem, isssue or stumbling block with somone under a Nazarite vow, or some other such vow [fasting, etc], or with one who was "weak" in faith and "doubting", not understanding. Paul would not therefore even drink of such or eat of something that might have been at one point associated with an idol [though an idol is nothing], if it meant that it would cause another to offend in their conscience. This is the Christian love and "charity", considerate of others.

Paul does not advocate the use of fermented "wine" by anyone, anymore than he would advocate the eating of swine. For it would be an offense to God, transgression and to all other brethren, including Paul himself, who was not "weak in the faith", but rather "strong" [Rm 15:1].

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Cor 3:16

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 1 Co 6:19

Would God ever allow an "unclean", impure and "unholy" sacrifice?

The fermented cup of "wine" and the abominations of such a "cup of devils" [see Isa 65:4; etc], deals with idolatry, and false worship [Dn 1:8, 5:1-2,4, etc]:

Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. 1 Cor 10:21

For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter: Dt 32:32

Let us "serveth Christ" aright:

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law. Rm 13:10

Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to [him], and makest [him] drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! Hab 2:5

Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. Rm 14:19

We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Rm 15:1

Let every one of us please [his] neighbour for [his] good to edification. Rm 15:2

"For even Christ pleased not himself ..." Rm 15:3;p

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 1 Cor 10:31

Fermented "wine" cannot make for "peace", for it is the very "bitter" "wine of violence" and "shame for glory".

The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Rm 13:12

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

Other texts commonly quoted are from Proverbs 31:6-7 for the advocation of alcohol consumption, but in so doing the context is always ruined:

Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. Proverbs 31:3

[It is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Proverbs 31:4

Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. Proverbs 31:5

We immediately see the wise counsel and burden of a mother for the instruction of her son [verse 1] in the ways of God being remembered. We should see that the fermented "wine" [that which causes one to "forget the law" and also that which "perverts the judgement ... of the afflicted"] belongs to the "ways to that which destroyeth kings", therefore "not for kings to drink wine" "nor for princes strong drink".

As has been previously noted from the scriptures, Christians are all "kings" and "priests" of the Most High God:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7579986/#post58099665

So, already knowing this, what do the following passages reveal?

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Proverbs 31:6

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. Proverbs 31:7

Do these passages advocate the consumption of alcohol in an everyday use, as many would like them to say? Far be it.

We see that this fermented "wine" and "strong drink" does not bring life, vitality, alertness or health, but rather death, sleep, forgetting and decay.

The words themselves in the following verses [6-7] reveal to whom it [the fermented] may "benefit" [and this term is used loosely], that is to say, those that are already dying, and in agony and perishing ["ready to perish", being "heavy [bitterness [of death], in pain, agony in dying] of heart"], so that they may not be in "misery" [travail or anguish of soul] any more.

Why? For it [fermented wine] benumbs the senses, clouds and darkens the mind, causes a hazy warmness in the physical body and dulls the pain it is in, it aids in the process of one who is suffering in misery while dying and as such heavy of heart and mournful [even unto death].

[This is why they offered the thieves and Jesus Christ upon the Cross [Matthew 27:34; Mark 15:23], vinegar/wine mixed with gall, yet He would not drink it even then, for His mind had to be clear until the very end.] Christ Jesus offers to man His pure unfermented "wine", while mankind offered to Him in return, fermented and "sour".

The texts do not advocate alcohol for social drinking in the least for anyone living, nor for "transgression by wine", but these texts rather speak on the subject of [fermented] "wine" to be given as a last resort to those who are in a critical, miserable and unrecoverable way - "ready to perish" and soon to pass into the forgetful sleep of death [Psalms 88:12] - that is to those that were already dying in death in a miserable way, easing into the sleep of death [Proverbs 13:3].

The punishment for the wicked will be the same, in that they will "drink the wine of the wrath of God" [Revelation 14:8,10, also 16:19 and Psalms 75:8] so that they would "drink down", and become as though they "had not been" [Obadiah 1:16], "destruction to the wicked" and a "strange [punishment] to the workers of iniquity" [Job 31:3; also Isaiah 28:21].

Let us also take heed to the counsel of God and His Word and avoid fermented "wine" and do not even "look" "upon it" when "it moveth itself aright", that we may live, "sober" and "holy" lives unto God and "be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and ... shall be filled with the Holy Ghost" [Luke 1:15;p] who is "given to them that obey Him" [Acts 5:32;p] and "shall not want a man to stand before me for ever" [Jeremiah 35:19;p].

 

[k4c]

You are taking a lot of unauthorized liberty when you say fermented wine always represents evil. It would be like saying that leaven always represents evil. Context, context, context, context.....

How would you interpret it if I said, "No drinking fermented wine while in the sancuary or while on duty"? Would you interpret that to mean that you could never drink fermented wine?