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A FEW churches only take that POV. But in addition, I think that you've mistaken the idea of the grace received through this (or any other) sacrament for being some kind of guarantee of salvation. It's not. It is not thought that the part in which we read "has eternal life" is some Quid Pro Quo.
Very well. However, you and at least one other poster seemed to want to press the point that there is something wrong with our view. All those mistaken points being made about Communion conferring salvation and being 'out of luck' if one can't commune with bread and wine for some reason....
Anyway, have we now covered all that we should have?
The Roman Catholic church, EO, the Lutherans and many others hold this view.
I'm sure you do, but little changes in words here or there can lead to misunderstandings, so I can appreciate how you made this mistake. By the way, I read the same threads you are speaking of.I've been here two years and have had numerous discussions regarding John 6 with members of these churches, so I think I know what I'm talking about.
Nope. You're you are dead wrong about that..
I'm sure you do, but little changes in words here or there can lead to misunderstandings, so I can appreciate how you made this mistake. By the way, I read the same threads you are speaking of
Do you really think that any of those churches teaches that anyone, just by receiving Holy Communion once, is free and clear, no more worries, can go and do whatever he wants thereafter...with the complete assurance that, having received the bread and wine, he's going to heaven no matter what??
It really is ridiculous when we see spelled out exactly the view you have said is the position of those church bodies.
Just to let you know, that's a rather offensive comment. Protestants are not that wide-open even on things we consider symbolic.
That is a fair comment, and I alluded to it a number of posts ago. From the Protestant point of view of Catholic communion doctrine, the Protestant doctrinal derivation of immersion baptism has the same foundational validity as (from the Protestant point of view, remember) the Catholic doctrine of the Euchrist.
From a Protestant point of view, we're living in a glass house in that particular respect.
Oh, but doesn't everyone view their way as the right way? Seriously, I have no doubt that someone could pick up on that. It wasn't my desire, I honestly do my best to not run around telling Christians they are worshiping God wrong very oftenThere is no doubt that when a Christian (or group/church/whatever) practices something in a way that I completely don't understand and don't see scriptural support for, that I'll view it wrong as you say... I think most of us do that to varying degrees.
Nope. You're quite wrong about that.
I'm sure you do, but little changes in words here or there can lead to misunderstandings, so I can appreciate how you made this mistake. By the way, I read the same threads you are speaking of.
But ask yourself...
Do you really think that any of those churches teaches that anyone, just by receiving Holy Communion once, is free and clear, no more worries, can go and do whatever he wants thereafter...with the complete assurance that, having received the bread and wine, he's going to heaven no matter what??
It really is ridiculous when we see spelled out exactly the view you have said is the position of those church bodies.
Who said that?
I said the RCC, EO, Lutherans teach that John 6:53-55 is referring to the LORD's supper. You, on the other hand, are bringing something up I never said.
But in addition, I think that you've mistaken the idea of the grace received through this (or any other) sacrament for being some kind of guarantee of salvation. It's not. It is not thought that the part in which we read "has eternal life" is some Quid Pro Quo.
The Roman Catholic church, EO, the Lutherans and many others hold this view.
So, grape juice will be wine, if left alone? IOW, there is natural ferment on the grape.
The Roman Catholic church, EO, the Lutherans and many others hold this view. I've been here two years and have had numerous discussions regarding John 6 with members of these churches, so I think I know what I'm talking about.
Well, you're attempting to alter the record now. Why not just admit that you could have made a mistake?
I wrote:
To which you replied:
But those churches DO NOT hold "this view," i.e. that receiving Communion is a guarantee of salvation, a Quid Pro Quo. They do not, and you have not shown that they do because that would be impossible to do.
Let's end it here. There is nothing more that needs to be said.
Then Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55
Numerous churches today teach that the above passage is referring to the LORD's Supper. They claim that only those who partake in the LORD's Supper have life in them.
Makes sense why most of these churches also have a very strict communion.
post #6.
I think Paul explains fairly directly that this is in reference to the Real Presence in the sacrament of the Eucharist.What did Jesus Christ mean by those words?1 Cor. 11:27-29 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.You see bread with your eyes. But you discern the body. This is the essence of a sacramental sign.
Originally Posted by Albion
OK, if you can't name individuals, name the churches that you imagine are teaching such an idea.
Originally Posted by Lion King
Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55
Numerous churches today teach that the above passage is referring to the LORD's Supper. They claim that only those who partake in the LORD's Supper have life in them.
Originally Posted by Albion
A FEW churches only take that POV. But in addition, I think that you've mistaken the idea of the grace received through this (or any other) sacrament for being some kind of guarantee of salvation. It's not. It is not thought that the part in which we read "has eternal life" is some Quid Pro Quo.
Good pointI think that what you wrote in the above reply is evidence that you do not know what you're talking about as far as Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran beliefs go.
Actually, the Lutheran view of John 6 is that it is about faith in Christ primarily, and only an oblique reference to actual Holy Communion.Who said that?
I said the RCC, EO, Lutherans teach that John 6:53-55 is referring to the LORD's supper. You, on the other hand, are bringing something up I never said.
You do understand that grape juice is of the fruit of the vine right?
Wine (fermented grape juice) = fruit of the vine
Unfermented grape juice = fruit of the vine.
Now, where is your evidence that the Scriptures says we are only to use wine at the LORD's Supper?
Actually grapes. Grapes are the fruit of the vine.
And you taking that to an extreme literal is not proof, that's just plain stupid.
You are wrong, just deal with it.
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