Windows Vista, I mean, Windows "Theft"

momalle1 said:

True enough, but Microsoft is far from the only player that "steals" ideas, it's rampant in the computer world.

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Microsoft is by far the most consistent. In addition Microsoft claims to have pioneered the very technologies they ripped.
Apple was actually sued by Xerox because a misunderstanding of the contract, but the lawsuit was dismissed.

JordanF said:

Microsoft is by far the most consistent. In addition Microsoft claims to have pioneered the very technologies they ripped.
Apple was actually sued by Xerox because a misunderstanding of the contract, but the lawsuit was dismissed.

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So we should all stop using KDE?

Vista is nothing more than another piece of garbage. Let me say expensive garbage at that.

People are tired of getting ripped off. I am seriously considering a linux based OS in the future as I am sick of M$. Of all the OS of M$ Windows XP is about the most worthless piece of crap there is. NO more of this garbage for me.

momalle1 said:

So we should all stop using KDE?

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lol I certainly hope you know the difference the idea of the GUI and an exact copy of one. KDE, GNOME, etc. are not rips of previously established GUIs (Microsoft used the exact implementation as Apple, but Microsoft improved it a lot).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System#History

total garbage but i still have to get it

JordanF said:

lol I certainly hope you know the difference the idea of the GUI and an exact copy of one. KDE, GNOME, etc. are not rips of previously established GUIs (Microsoft used the exact implementation as Apple, but Microsoft improved it a lot).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System#History

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Yeah, but KDE acts a lot like windows, I know linux guys that won't use it because it's too much like windows (there's some intelligent thinking!)

Garry, you should try Linux and OS X before you knock Windows, like I said before, they all have their good points, but there is a reason why Windows is so far ahead of the others in usage, and it's not because MS is evil. Try Mandriva or Suse for your first Linux distro, when you feel comfortable, try building Gentoo from scratch, by far my favorite, now if I could just find the time to build it again...

faith guardian said:

Improved it a lot?
No way. Mac OS as a GUI has always been superior to Windows. In most ways anyway. Maybe except a couple of features.

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In the early days Apple didn't know what to do with it. Actually the Mac OS has been pretty crappy until recently. OS X is very excellent.

Thanks for posting that video, I had heard about it but had not tracked it down yet.

I've often heard the MAD doctrine talked about when it came to Apple and Microsoft. MAD was a cold war acronym meaning Mutually Assured Destruction and was applied to the idea that the US and the USSR had the ability to unleash such massive destruction on each other that it kind of kept the peace.

MAD as applied to Apple and Microsoft is that both companies are in violation of so many of each others patents that if either one of them ever acted on one the legal battle involved would escalate to massive levels and cost the companies untold amounts of cash. As such, both just let it be.

I mean think about it, what if Apple won a patent they had that was a critical part of every Windows OS on the market today and demanded a licensing fee...or vice versa with Apple.

As far as Vista goes, I am not sure how much is stolen vs. how much is part of a technology sharing program the two companies have. They just formalized this arrangement recently and only announced it yesterday.

The deal is that MS will continue to support Office on the Mac for at least five years in exchange for Apple sharing new technologies with MS on a timely basis.

While the deal was apparently just put into writing it has existed informally between these two companies for a long time.

So when all us OSX users gasp at how similar Vista looks to Tiger we don't know how much MS ripped off vs. how much Apple shared with them in exchange for continue support of Office.

But to be perfectly fair, Apple didn't exactly "innovate" Tiger's Dashboard...they got that idea from Konfabulator (we could always revisit Sherlock and Watson too).

What does surprise me about Vista are the hefty requirements to run the Glass UI.

I am currently running Tiger on a 1.33 ghz iBook with 512 RAM and a 32 MB ATI graphics chip.

Windows Vista recommendations are:

As a general guideline, just about any mid-range and better processor shipping from Intel or AMD is a good fit for basic functionality in Windows Vista. The lower end of the current processor range will work, but those processors wont provide the optimal experience for most users and definitely wont provide the best experience for high-end gaming or video editing.

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and

Both Intel and AMD are starting to ship dual-core processors at the upper end of their processor lines. These powerful processors will be excellent choices for Windows Vista.
Now is the time to decide whether youre ready to make the jump to a 64-bit processor. The current x64 processors from Intel and AMD will be excellent processors for Windows Vista, and I think well see a widespread move to 64-bit by the time Windows Vista ships.

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Microsoft

From Intel:

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 600? sequence with HT Technology1 and Intel® Extended Memory 64 Technology?

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Intel

From AMD:

AMD

RAM:

To take better advantage of Windows Vista functionality, you should have at least 512 MB of RAM, on your PC. This provides enough memory for both the operating system and a typical application workload. And while 512 MB is great for many scenarios, more advanced users will want 1 GB of memory or more.

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Microsoft

Video Card Requirements:

If you are building or buying PC today, you probably want to avoid the low end of the current GPU range and make sure you get a GPU that supports DirectX 9 and has at least 64 MB of graphics memory.

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Whether you are building or buying a PC today, choose a design that includes a separate PCI Express or AGP graphics card. This way, even if the card you choose ends up not being an optimal choice, you can easily upgrade just the graphics card. And the choice of AGP or PCI Express will ensure that you have sufficient bandwidth to support the enhanced graphics of Windows Vista.

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This is the part that makes the least sense due to the increasing demand for thin, light portable laptops:

When choosing a notebook today for use in Windows Vista, you may run into the trade-off between better graphics or thinner and lighter ultra portables. Exactly which chipsets for mobile PCs will end up fully supported is still open at this point. However, if you are purchasing a mobile PC today, and want to get AERO Glass experience, you will need a discrete card. When buying a notebook today, ask your PC vendor for more concrete information regarding graphics cards that would support WDDM.

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Microsoft

If you don't have all of this stuff it is supposed to scale down to look like Windows XP but good grief, I ran Tiger on my 1.25 ghz Mac Mini, 32 MB ATI graphics and 256 MB RAM perfectly fine without the system turning off things.

I was just thinking about this...the minimum requirements for running Glass on Vista exceed the requirements to run DoomIII.

DoomIII requirements:

3D Hardware Accelerator Card Required - 100% DirectX® 9.0b compatible 64MB Hardware Accelerated video card and the latest drivers*.

English version of Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP

Pentium®IV 1.5 GHz or Athlon® XP 1500+ processor or higher

384MB RAM

8x Speed CD-ROM drive (1200KB/sec sustained transfer rate) and latest drivers

2.2GB of uncompressed free hard disk space (plus 400MB for Windows® swap file)

100% DirectX® 9.0b compatible 16-bit sound card and the latest drivers

100% Windows® compatible mouse, keyboard, and latest drivers

DirectX® 9.0b (included)


Note: DoomIII lists the ATI Radeon 8500 as a supported card but ATI is recommending a minimum of an ATI Radeon 9600 for Windows Vista.

as much as i will admit to wanting more out of an OS, i have not felt your 'agony' about Microsoft... until Microsoft actually kills my inner child, i will tolerate it...

troglodyte said:

....snip....
until Microsoft actually kills my inner child, i will tolerate it...

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Ever read there EULA ?

Apple isn't completely innocent. Just look at the iPod. They stole the mp3 player interface from Creative and then threw a fit when Creative was awarded the patent. Creative even used the name "nano" (Creative Zen Nano) before apple "stole" the name for the iPod.

Just Me Garry said:

... Of all the OS of M$ Windows XP is about the most worthless piece of crap there is. NO more of this garbage for me.

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LOL - you obviously not experienced working with Windows ME as your o/s have you?? If you had, you'd NEVER say XP is a "worthless piece of crap." That poor excuse for an o/s was a real 'joke'!


Ray

The windowing systems originated at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto). According to lore and what probably is the case, the Apple guys got a good look at it and then created their own system for Apple to sell; then Microsoft, during a time of coziness with Apple, studied Apple's implementation and developed Windows. Typical Linux GUIs have been, visually, almost outright copies of Windows 95 give or take a little sliding.

toastytech.com/guis/alto.html

Computers running Windows XP SP2 with DEP enabled and with a CPU with the no-execution bit feature are very resistant to the decades old plague of the buffer overrun. For instance, the recent WMF exploit would not work on such a configured computer. That, and considering Windows has to be everything to everyone, makes Windows, in my opinion, a pretty good general purpose operating system.

That video is a real hoot. Having the Vista beta sitting on my HDD, I can assure you that it looks nothing like it. Unfortunately it is sliding more towards MacOS though, with its horrid UI. Ah well, as long as the Windows classic theme is there, I'm happy.

osx said:

I think thats some sort of joke. here's the vista screen shots that ive seen

http://www.pro-networks.org/vista/screenshots/

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Funny! They even ripped off the shutdown timer and the Search graphic in Explorer. Pathetic!!! LOL But what should we be expecting really tho? It's always been like this...