Windows of Heaven and the Firmament

[Diamond72]

don't forget how Jesus fed the 5,000 ?????

We do that all the time. There is always plenty of food. I have jars of food that get down to 10% and they never seem to run out from there. Eventually we throw it away and replace it with a new one, even though the 10% is still there in the container. We have 50 or 60 people all the time in our home. They eat all they want and then they have plenty left over they can take as much home as they want.

For us everything is a miracle. For some people nothing is a miracle. Everyone has their own measure of faith. They use to use the term spontaneous remission for people who get healed when they did not expect them to improve and get better. Even people with the power of suggestion or positive thinking can get results. Just from the placebo effect. So we have to go beyond that to prove a miracle took place.

Have you ever heard of the observer effect? When we observe a system, our very act of observation can alter its behavior. the observer effect has sparked intriguing discussions about the relationship between consciousness and reality. The observer effect has sparked intriguing discussions about the relationship between consciousness and reality.

I have a friend that just had surgery. I told him in six months to a year he will have a complete recovery. I know he will because he trusts me and I know how powerful the power of suggestion is.

I did know a church that did not seem to be able to multiply the food like that. They had to order in a lot of pizza and chickens so they had enough to feed everyone. Feeding people at church is very very common. We can bring people in that just want the food, but hopefully they will want to stay and get involved in other activities.

Anyways, don't get me started because I can tell you story after story after story of the miracles we have seen and experienced. There is an abundance with God. Above and beyond all we could ever think or imagine.

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

 

[Diamond72]

I've heard of other bird infestations were hundreds of some species will suddenly come out of nowhere.

Alford Hitchcock did a movies about this in the 60's . With birds it is most likely turbulence. They depend on wind currents the way fish depend on the currents in the water. On an airplane if there is turbulence you are suppose to put your seatbelt on incase there is a sudden drop in the airplane. We see this in cars also if there is an accident. The car stops but the people keep on going. This is why we have seat belts and airbags.

I use to wonder how birds flew in the pattern they do. Then I found out it had to do with the wind and air currents. Again we see this with big trucks. You can get into a sweet spot where the truck will pull you along. If the truck driver wants to mess with you he can create an air suction that can pull our car two or three feet over. There are a lot of good reasons not to mess with big trucks. The air current is a big part of that.

 

[Apple Sky]

I don't recall the specifics off hand but I don't recall it being said that the manna was some totally supernatural substance. It could be though that it didn't exist before the time of Exodus since they had never seen it before and had no idea what it was. And also maybe it was in greater abundance than usual to feed so many people.

King James Bible
And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

I thought manna was supposed to go off...............

As for the Bible’s double portion (lechem mishneh) of manna on Friday, to last for two days, no one has yet found a scientific explanation.

 

[Diamond72]

And what about the Quails that rained down

African quail, or common quail (Coturnix coturnix), are game birds in the pheasant family that migrate between Europe and Africa for breeding and wintering.

It is easier to prove the Bible to be right and accurate compared to trying to prove the Bible wrong. Because it is impossible to prove the Bible wrong. There is NO ERROR in the Bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

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The raqia is the sky above our heads, also is known as the 1st heaven

An interesting topic, indeed:

 

[Apple Sky]

It is easier to prove the Bible to be right and accurate compared to trying to prove the Bible wrong. Because it is impossible to prove the Bible wrong. There is NO ERROR in the Bible.

I am defending that the Bible has no errors & is the truth from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Diamond72]

I am defending that the Bible has no errors & is the truth from Genesis to Revelation.

The Bible has no errors but there is a lot of Bible that does not get translated. That is why we learn how to read the Bible in the original language. My point is that people want to disregard the oral tradition because they do not realize how much of our Bible is a product of the Oral tradition.

 

[Apple Sky]

An interesting topic, indeed:

This video recognizes that the waters above are the clouds, this is so untrue as Genesis 1-6 states;

King James Bible
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

The clouds are not above the firmament.

The new word for firmament is expanse, this is totally wrong.

 

[trophy33]

I am defending that the Bible has no errors

The Bible has no errors but there is a lot of Bible that does not get translated.

In the context of this thread - a non-literal genre is not an error. The error originates in your misunderstanding of what you are reading.

Outside of the scope of this thread - The Bible has quite a lot of errors:

1. Preservation errors - copy errors, different textual families errors
- the Bible you are holding in your hand is a compilation made by various scholars from many various manuscripts; many places differ greatly
- probably the most known problem is that the NT writers used a different OT that differs from the OT in the majority of Bibles

2. The ambiguity of the original languages and texts
- this is not technically an error, but its an imperfection that leads to many errors in copying, translations and interpretations

3. Internal errors and mistakes, in the "original" text
- can be seen when comparing two gospels side by side - inspiration certainly is not a perfect dictation; basically any fundamentalist view of the Bible can be easily debunked by the Bible itself, when comparing two gospels

4. Canonical problems - there are no clear rules why some writing should be in the Bible or not, its all more or less based upon what the majority used and what some human authority said

 

[Apple Sky]

Canonical problems - there are no clear rules why some writing should be in the Bible or not, its all more or less based upon what the majority used and what some human authority said

This is the problem, it all comes down to the decision of the Authority's again, why should we be told what is Canonical & what is not. This is why I read most of the banned books of the Bible because these books give a more in depth knowledge of the Bible.

Especially 'The Book of Enoch', 'The book of Jasher', Maccabees, Jubilees & 'The book of Baruch'.

 

[Job 33:6]

This video recognizes that the waters above are the clouds, this is so untrue as Genesis 1-6 states;

King James Bible
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

The clouds are not above the firmament.

The new word for firmament is expanse, this is totally wrong.

The video doesn't say that the firmament are clouds. What are you talking about? Maybe you didn't watch the video?

 

[Apple Sky]

The video doesn't say that the firmament are clouds. What are you talking about? Maybe you didn't watch the video?

My apologies, I didn't watch the video correctly - Sorry..........

 

[trophy33]

This is the problem, it all comes down to the decision of the Authority's again, why should we be told what is Canonical & what is not. This is why I read most of the banned books of the Bible because these books give a more in depth knowledge of the Bible.

Especially 'The Book of Enoch', 'The book of Jasher', Maccabees, Jubilees & 'The book of Baruch'.

Well, in that case you believe that the Bible does and does not contain any error, in the same time?

 

[Ace777]

I've never had any qualms about the days being literal days,

There had to be a literal week before God created Adam. Bishop Ussher says the began Oct 29 in 4004 BCE. So if they want to try to fit everything into that week in some way that is fine with me. Just like Jesus was born on 4 BCE. I believe Adam was died "spiritually" at the age of 33 and that is when Jesus when to Calvary to die a physical death in his place at the age of 33.