Will your belief system stand the test of Scripture?

[k4c]

What are your thoughts on these verses?

Do they teach a yoke of bondage? Do they teach the Ten Commandments are done away with? Do they teach new covenant believers to disregard the Ten Commandments? Do they teach grace does away with responsibility to God's Law? What saith thou?

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, `You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve."

Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.''

The New Covenant teaches us a principle that God is the only one to be worshiped.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make yourselves any idols neither shall you worship them.

The New Covenant teaches us to keep ourselves from idols.

Luke 1:49 because the Powerful One has done great things for me. His name is holy.

Exodus 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

The New Covenant teaches us that God's Name is holy.

Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."

The New Covenant says Jesus is Lord of THE Sabbath. The word (THE) is referring to a specific amount of holy time identified in the fourth commandment as the Sabbath day.

Matthew 12:12 "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The New Covenant teaches us that doing good during that specific holy time called, the Sabbath, is not a violation of it.

Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth."

Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.''

The New Covenant tells us to honor our mother and father and in doing so we have a promise. That promise was established in the fifth commandment.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people's matters.

Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder."

The New Covenant tells us not to be a murder confirming the sixth commandment.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Exodus 20:14 "You shall not commit adultery".

The New Covenant tells us not to commit adultery.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people's matters.

Exodus 20:15 "You shall not steal".

The New Covenant tells us not to steal.

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, each one speak truth with his neighbor, for we are members of one another.

Exodus 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

The New Covenant tells us not to lie.

Luke 12:15 And He said to them, "Take heed and beware of covetousness.

Exodus 20:17 "You shall not covet".

The New Covenant tells us not to covet.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Servant of the Lord]

What saith thou?

The Ten Commandments cannot be done away with. Could they have been done away with, Christ need not have come to earth to die for the sins of the world.

Without a law, there is no sin. Without sin, there is no need of a Saviour.
---

The Commandments were written on stone with the finger of God.

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 31:18
​

Christ's words regarding the law.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:16-18

And from Matthew Henry, a respected Bible commentator:

Christ came to confirm the law.



Let none suppose that Christ allows his people to trifle with any commands of God's holy law. No sinner partakes of Christ's justifying righteousness, till he repents of his evil deeds. The mercy revealed in the gospel leads the believer to still deeper self-abhorrence. The law is the Christian's rule of duty, and he delights therein. If a man, pretending to be Christ's disciple, encourages himself in any allowed disobedience to the holy law of God, or teaches others to do the same,
whatever his station or reputation among men may be, he can be no true disciple. Christ's righteousness, imputed to us by faith alone, is needed by every one that enters the kingdom of grace or of glory; but the new creation of the heart to holiness, produces a thorough change in a man's temper and conduct. (Mt 5:21-26)
​

​

 

[wpage]

There is one law for all...

 

[k4c]

The Ten Commandments cannot be done away with. Could they have been done away with, Christ need not have come to earth to die for the sins of the world.

Without a law, there is no sin. Without sin, there is no need of a Saviour.
---

The Commandments were written on stone with the finger of God.

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 31:18
​

Christ's words regarding the law.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:16-18

And from Matthew Henry, a respected Bible commentator:

Christ came to confirm the law.



Let none suppose that Christ allows his people to trifle with any commands of God's holy law. No sinner partakes of Christ's justifying righteousness, till he repents of his evil deeds. The mercy revealed in the gospel leads the believer to still deeper self-abhorrence. The law is the Christian's rule of duty, and he delights therein. If a man, pretending to be Christ's disciple, encourages himself in any allowed disobedience to the holy law of God, or teaches others to do the same,
whatever his station or reputation among men may be, he can be no true disciple. Christ's righteousness, imputed to us by faith alone, is needed by every one that enters the kingdom of grace or of glory; but the new creation of the heart to holiness, produces a thorough change in a man's temper and conduct. (Mt 5:21-26)
​

​

Amen...

There is a deep seated spiritual blindness today. What people say to avoid the commandments doesn't even make sense.

They say we're not under the law. But when you question them regarding sin, which is defined by the law they say you're not allowed to sln. Then when I post A thread like this they say I'm trying to put a yoke of bondage on them. Go figure, Babylon 101.

 

[k4c]

There is one law for all...

Is that all you got?

 

[Pythons]

Will your belief system stand the test of Scripture?

Indeed it does and has for 2000 plus years.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

WPAGE: There is one law for all...

Welcome! Not sure if I've interacted with you before. It's always nice to see new faces. You've offered an intriguing question. I too have wondered whether there is an implied distinction between laws and, if so, why we would wish to divide laws into categories.

BFA

 

[k4c]

Indeed it does and has for 2000 plus years.

If you teach or believe that the Ten Commandments are a yoke of bondage or that the Ten Commandments are done away or teach new covenant believers to disregard the Ten Commandments or believe God's grace does away with responsibility to God's Law. Then I would rethink your reply.

By the way, you look good for being 2000 plus years...you must be living by the Adventist health principles.

 

[Pythons]

If you teach or believe that the Ten Commandments are a yoke of bondage or that the Ten Commandments are done away or teach new covenant believers to disregard the Ten Commandments or believe God's grace does away with responsibility to God's Law. Then I would rethink your reply.

By the way, you look good for being 2000 plus years...you must be living by the Adventist health principles.

There was one law delivered to the Children of Israel and that one law was composed of ceremonial and natural laws...
...The natural or moral laws are eternal and not subject to change.
...Because they reflect the nature or character of God.

The Sabbath commandment had both a moral and ceremonial aspect.....
...As man, by nature, has always dedicated or set aside some time to the worship of god's.
...The specific timing of that worship is 'ceremonial'.

A heathen by nature knows it's wrong to steal, lie, sleep with another man's wife, etc....
...A heathen is not commanded by nature to observe a seventh day Sabbath.
...Therefore the "Saturday Sabbath" commandment was absolutely ceremonial.

The law of God is always in force 24/7 365 days a year......
...And you will notice that every one of those laws are natural or moral.

 

[k4c]

A heathen by nature knows it's wrong to steal, lie, sleep with another man's wife, etc....
...A heathen is not commanded by nature to observe a seventh day Sabbath.
...Therefore the "Saturday Sabbath" commandment was absolutely ceremonial.

A heathen by nature knows it's wrong to steal, lie, sleep with another man's wife, etc....this is true but they would not know of the One true God and how He deisres His people to worship Him only, not use His name in vain, rememerber the seventh day to keep it holy. These things are taught and learned once a heathen comes alive to God.

The Sabbah is not ceremonial, it's memorial.

Memorial: something designed to preserve the memory of a person, event, etc., as a monument or a holiday.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Memorials can't be changed so as long as we have a seven day week the seventh day remains a memorial.

 

[Pythons]

A heathen by nature knows it's wrong to steal, lie, sleep with another man's wife, etc....this is true but they would not know of the One true God and how He deisres His people to worship Him only, not use His name in vain, rememerber the seventh day to keep it holy. These things are taught and learned once a heathen comes alive to God.

The Sabbah is not ceremonial, it's memorial.

Memorial: something designed to preserve the memory of a person, event, etc., as a monument or a holiday.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Memorials can't be changed so as long as we have a seven day week the seventh day remains a memorial.

A ceremonial commandment requires instruction, a moral or natural commandment does not...
...You quote Exodus 20,8-11 which is a distant view of what happened.
...Deut 5 is an up close and personal view on what took place "that day".

And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: Hear, O Israel, the ceremonies and judgments, which I speak in your ears this day: learn them, and fulfil them in work. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. He made not the covenant with our fathers, but with us, who are now present and living. He spoke to us face to face in the mount out of the midst of fire. I was the mediator and stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you his words, for you feared the fire, and went not up into the mountain, and he said: I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage

Thou shalt not have strange gods in my sight. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any things, that are in heaven above, or that are in the earth beneath, or that abide in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, and thou shalt not serve them. For I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the third and fourth generation, to them that hate me, And shewing mercy unto many thousands, to them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for he shall not be unpunished that taketh his name upon a vain thing.

Observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. The seventh is the day of the sabbath, that is, the rest of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not do any work therein, thou nor thy son nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant nor thy maidservant, nor thy ox, nor thy ass, nor any of thy beasts, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest, even as thyself. Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the sabbath day.

Honour thy father and mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee, that thou mayst live a long time, and it may be well with thee in the land, which the Lord thy God will give thee.

Thou shalt not kill. Neither shalt thou commit adultery. And thou shalt not steal.

Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife: nor his house, nor his field, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his.

These words the Lord spoke to all the multitude of you in the mountain, out of the midst of the fire and the cloud, and the darkness, with a loud voice, adding nothing more: and he wrote them in two tables of stone, which he delivered unto me. But you, after you heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, and saw the mountain burn, came to me, all the princes of the tribes and the elders, and you said: Behold the Lord our God hath shewn us his majesty and his greatness, we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire, and have proved this day that God speaking with man, man hath lived. Why shall we die therefore, and why shall this exceeding great Are consume us: for if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any more, we shall die. What is all flesh, that it should hear the voice of the living God, who speaketh out of the midst of the fire, as we have heard, and be able to live? Approach thou rather: and hear all things that the Lord our God shall say to thee, and thou shalt speak to us, and we will hear and will do them. And when the Lord had heard this, he said to me: I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they spoke to thee: they have spoken all things well. Who shall give them to have such a mind, to fear me, and to keep all my commandments at all times, that it may be well with them and with their children for ever? Go and say to them: Return into your tents. But stand thou here with me, and I will speak to thee all my commandments, and ceremonies and judgments: which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land, which I will give them for a possession. Keep therefore and do the things which the Lord God hath commanded you: you shall not go aside neither to the right hand, nor to the left. But you shall walk in the way that the Lord your God hath commanded, that you may live, and it may be well with you, and your days may be long in the land of your possession.

So, the ONLY reason God ceased speaking the commandments was because the people were terrified.....
....God instructs Moses to tell the people to return to their tents.
....And orders Moses to stay put on the mountain so God call complete giving Moses ALL the commandments.

Therefore the 10 commandments were "some" of God's commandments.....
...The text explicitly states they were not ALL of God's commandments.
...Therefore the law is ONE.
...Which is why the first five books are called Torah ( The Law ).

There were many "memorials" mentioned in Scripture.....
...How many of them aside from the Sabbath do you observe?
...Do you observe the feast of the dedication?
...The feast which celebrated the outing of the little horn of Daniel?
...Jesus celebrated this 'memorial'.

 

[k4c]

A ceremonial commandment requires instruction, a moral or natural commandment does not...
...You quote Exodus 20,8-11 which is a distant view of what happened.
...Deut 5 is an up close and personal view on what took place "that day".

So, the ONLY reason God ceased speaking the commandments was because the people were terrified.....
....God instructs Moses to tell the people to return to their tents.
....And orders Moses to stay put on the mountain so God call complete giving Moses ALL the commandments.

Therefore the 10 commandments were "some" of God's commandments.....
...The text explicitly states they were not ALL of God's commandments.
...Therefore the law is ONE.
...Which is why the first five books are called Torah ( The Law ).

There were many "memorials" mentioned in Scripture.....
...How many of them aside from the Sabbath do you observe?
...Do you observe the feast of the dedication?
...The feast which celebrated the outing of the little horn of Daniel?
...Jesus celebrated this 'memorial'.

The Ten Commandments is the standard God gave to His creation for godly love and true worship. He wrote them with His own finger in stone. No other law was given in such a way. This is the same Law that God writes in our hearts and mind, which was the new covenant promise found throughout the OT.

Just because people need instruction in righteousness does not mean it's ceremonial. Nice try...

Circumcision is ceremonial and what does God say about that?

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

 

[Pythons]

The Ten Commandments is the standard God gave to His creation for godly love and true worship. He wrote them with His own finger in stone. No other law was given in such a way. This is the same Law that God writes in our hearts and mind, which was the new covenant promise found throughout the OT.

Just because people need instruction in righteousness does not mean it's ceremonial. Nice try...

Circumcision is ceremonial and what does God say about that?

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Where do you read in the Scriptures that the ten commandments are the standard God gave to His creation?
...The texts I quoted demonstrate God made a specific covenant with Israel.
...That was not made with the fathers of those who were at the mountain.

And Abram went forward, going, and proceeding on to the south.

10And there came a famine in the country; and Abram went down into Egypt, to sojourn there: for the famine was very grievous in the land.
11And when he was near to enter into Egypt, he said to Sarai his wife: I know that thou art a beautiful woman:
12And that when the Egyptians shall see thee, they will say: She is his wife: and they will kill me, and keep thee.
13Say, therefore, I pray thee, that thou art my sister: that I may be well used for thee, and that my soul may live for thy sake.
14And when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians saw the woman that she was very beautiful.
15And the princes told Pharao, and praised her before him: and the woman was taken into the house of Pharao.
16And they used Abram well for her sake. And he had sheep and oxen, and he asses, and menservants and maidservants, and she asses, and camels.
17But the Lord scourged Pharao and his house with most grievous stripes for Sarai, Abram's wife.
18And Pharao called Abram, and said to him: What is this that thou hast done to me? Why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife.
19For what cause didst thou say, she was thy sister, that I might take her to my wife? Now therefore, there is thy wife, take her, and go thy way. 20And Pharao gave his men orders concerning Abram: and they led him away, and his wife, and all that he had.

Pharao was evidently under "moral" or "natural law" because he knew it was wrong to sleep....
...With another man's wife.
...Do you suggest that Pharao also was instructed "by nature" to observe a Saturday Sabbath?
....In addition to the natural law of adultery.
....And just opted to blow off the Sabbath commandment.

Pharao demonstrated more "morality" and observance of the natural law ( God's law )...
...Then King David.

It is interesting that you would bring up circumcision given it even more aptly demonstrates Sabbath terminated....
....God would direct others to kill violators of the Sabbath commandment.
....While God would Himself kill for violation of circumcision.

And when he was in his journey, in the inn, the Lord met him, and would have killed him.

25Immediately Sephora took a very sharp stone, and circumcised the fore skin of her son, and touched his feet and said: A bloody spouse art thou to me. 26And he let him go after she had said A bloody spouse art thou to me, because of the circumcision

 

[k4c]

Where do you read in the Scriptures that the ten commandments are the standard God gave to His creation?

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[Pythons]

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

Would you say that the phrase "keep His commandments"....
...Would allow individuals to cease keeping Passover, New Moons, circumcision, etc?
...If in fact it is the whole duty of man to continue to keep "all" the commandments.

 

[k4c]

Would you say that the phrase "keep His commandments"....
...Would allow individuals to cease keeping Passover, New Moons, circumcision, etc?
...If in fact it is the whole duty of man to continue to keep "all" the commandments.

The Father says, "This is my beloved Son, hear him."

 

[Pythons]

The Father says, "This is my beloved Son, hear him."

Yes, and Jesus said those who listen to His Apostles here him....
...According to the Scriptures.

The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

We can see this power 'exercised' later on in the same Book....
...There is no other meaning.

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things

The Scribes and Pharisees 'previously' had this power.....
...However it was taken away from them.
...When Judaism became a dead religion.

 

[k4c]

Yes, and Jesus said those who listen to His Apostles here him....
...According to the Scriptures.

We can see this power 'exercised' later on in the same Book....
...There is no other meaning.
Originally Posted by Acts 15,28

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things

​

The Scribes and Pharisees 'previously' had this power.....
...However it was taken away from them.
...When Judaism became a dead religion.

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

You know, I stole a puse from a pew in my church and was caught by the pastor. I quoted Acts 15 in my defense but he didn't go for it so I stabbed him to death. According to Acts 15, God is okay with that...

I love being a Gentile Christian...

Do you see the folly in trying to use Acts 15 to avoid the Law?

What Acts 15 is talking about, in context, is how when new converts turn to God don't burden them with so much doctrine right up front. He then tells them to just watch out for the short list he gave them, probably because they were the main issues at that time in that area. If you read the whole context he tells them how they will learn the rest of what they need to know because Moses is taught every Sabbath.

Acts 15:19-21 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. "For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."