Will we sin when we get to heaven?

[Oncedeceived]

Really? Because when I said:

You quoted it and responded with this:


So which is it? Did He choose to do things this way, or was He limited by being unable to do it another way?

He is a Supreme Being there is only one such Being. We can not be that Being. Now while there may be an unlimited possibility for worlds and plans we can never be gods. All plans, all possible plans can not include us being gods because we are a created species. God could create us being any other type of created beings in an alternate possible world but we still could not be gods.

Edited to add: He has to be the one that covers our sins, He created us and has to have a plan to make it where He can co-exist with us which means that since He can't create gods (Godness is not a created thing)He has to be true to His righteousness and so HE had to plan a way to have justice for those who were wronged and mercy on all.

 

[Moral Orel]

Godness is not a created thing

So here is your assertion that I haven't seen founded yet. The one part of God's nature that I will concede is impossible for a created thing to have is the eternal part. If it has a beginning, then it can't stretch infinitely into the past, but it can stretch infinitely into the future. And maybe we could say that the created thing would never have the ability to make God cease to exist as well, as that, I will concede, can be considered an impossibility.

But barring that, you are merely asserting that it is impossible to bestow any other qualities in any other quantity on His creation. We've established that beings do eventually have a nature that never sins again infinitely into the future, that this state does not mean the absence of free will, and babies can achieve that state through no effort or choice on their part whatsoever, so I really don't see what the problem is.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So here is your assertion that I haven't seen founded yet. The one part of God's nature that I will concede is impossible for a created thing to have is the eternal part. If it has a beginning, then it can't stretch infinitely into the past, but it can stretch infinitely into the future. And maybe we could say that the created thing would never have the ability to make God cease to exist as well, as that, I will concede, can be considered an impossibility.

But barring that, you are merely asserting that it is impossible to bestow any other qualities in any other quantity on His creation. We've established that beings do eventually have a nature that never sins again infinitely into the future, that this state does not mean the absence of free will, and babies can achieve that state through no effort or choice on their part whatsoever, so I really don't see what the problem is.

Like you said, the baby has not sinned any sin on their own. The sin nature is still there and as of yet unactualized in them provide the means in which they are able to be in God's presence. Unrighteousness can not co-exist with God.

 

[Moral Orel]

Like you said, the baby has not sinned any sin on their own. The sin nature is still there and as of yet unactualized in them provide the means in which they are able to be in God's presence. Unrighteousness can not co-exist with God.

Okay, so where is the problem with what you quoted though, or is there none?

A baby comes into existence with sin, makes no choices, later becomes sinless.

If life begins at conception, then this whole process only needs to take a matter of moments to achieve the end results. The bit of having to start in a physical body contaminated with sin seems like a trivial and arbitrary matter.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Okay, so where is the problem with what you quoted though, or is there none?

A baby comes into existence with sin, makes no choices, later becomes sinless.

If life begins at conception, then this whole process only needs to take a matter of moments to achieve the end results. The bit of having to start in a physical body contaminated with sin seems like a trivial and arbitrary matter.

But it isn't. All of us will actualize sin. None even those babies would not sin. The fact that they have a sin nature is still there, they were just not guilty of sinning themselves personally yet.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Re-read my resposes.

Bye.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Why do you think God is omniscient?

God says that the hairs on your head are numbered, implying that he knows the number, implying that he knows everything.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

The laws of logic would not exist without God's thoughts. The laws of logic flow from God's thoughts.

So then the reason God cannot make a square circle is because he cannot conceive of what it would look like?

 

[Moral Orel]

But it isn't. All of us will actualize sin. None even those babies would not sin. The fact that they have a sin nature is still there, they were just not guilty of sinning themselves personally yet.

Fine. But the point stands that a creature can come into existence for a brief few moments and then have a perfect sinless nature without ever choosing anything. Which makes those brief few moments trivial and arbitrary in the grand scheme of accomplishing the act of creating a creature which has a perfect sinless nature.

 

[Oncedeceived]

So then the reason God cannot make a square circle is because he cannot conceive of what it would look like?

Seriously.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Fine. But the point stands that a creature can come into existence for a brief few moments and then have a perfect sinless nature without ever choosing anything. Which makes those brief few moments trivial and arbitrary in the grand scheme of accomplishing the act of creating a creature which has a perfect sinless nature.

No, they can not have a perfect sinless nature. Their nature is still the same as any created being.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Seriously.

Yes, seriously. From my perspective, everything you've contributed thus far is incomprehensible drivel so I'm doing my best to get a firm footing in your perspective. If you don't think I'm being serious, we can be done. I wouldn't feel like a good conversation is being flushed down the toilet by any means.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yes, seriously. From my perspective, everything you've contributed thus far is incomprehensible drivel so I'm doing my best to get a firm footing in your perspective. If you don't think I'm being serious, we can be done. I wouldn't feel like a good conversation is being flushed down the toilet by any means.

You haven't substantiated any point from your perspective. You haven't shown that logic is a separate entity from God.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

You haven't substantiated any point from your perspective. You haven't shown that logic is a separate entity from God.

Why do I have to refute a bizarre claim that has no bearing on my argument?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Why do I have to refute a bizarre claim that has no bearing on my argument?

It does have bearing on your argument.

 

[dcalling]

God says that the hairs on your head are numbered, implying that he knows the number, implying that he knows everything.

That is some interesting augmenter. Yes God did say our hairs are numbers, implying he knows the number, it implies God most likely knows all things physical.

However it is my option that by creating free will, God has given up the ability of knowing everything (on the mind level)

 

[Nihilist Virus]

It does have bearing on your argument.

No it doesn't and you already showed you don't understand my argument. You cannot follow it, summarize it, or respond to it. I do not follow your argument either, I do not understand how God is not limited by logic yet is unable to violate it.

We do not meet the most basic requirements for conversation so I think we're done.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

That is some interesting augmenter. Yes God did say our hairs are numbers, implying he knows the number, it implies God most likely knows all things physical.

However it is my option that by creating free will, God has given up the ability of knowing everything (on the mind level)

Then you're the only Christian, more or less, who denies God's utter omniscience.

 

[Moral Orel]

No, they can not have a perfect sinless nature. Their nature is still the same as any created being.

Okay, maybe I assumed something I shouldn't have. Do we have a perfect sinless nature once we get to Heaven? Doesn't Jesus wash away all the sin, and then we never sin again?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Okay, maybe I assumed something I shouldn't have. Do we have a perfect sinless nature once we get to Heaven? Doesn't Jesus wash away all the sin, and then we never sin again?

Yes, once the physical body and nature is completely gone and we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit due to accepting Christ's payment of our sins we take on our spiritual body and nature allowing us to co-exist with God.