Will Trump's wall ever get built?

[OldWiseGuy]

Illegal border crossings have been steadily declining since 2007. The trend predates Trump.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/12/03/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico

They haven't declined enough.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's a lot of border. And seeing as most illegal immigrants are now coming in legally on short visit visas or flying in to the west coast, border security resources would best be applied to something that was cost-effective.

Most immigrants who enter the country do so legally, federal data shows
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../most-immigrants-who-enter-the-country-do-so-legal...

But they at least have some value other than unskilled labor.

 

[The Barbarian]

But they at least have some value other than unskilled labor.

What makes you think that those coming in legally are different in that regard?

 

[EpiscipalMe]

They haven't declined enough.

Fair enough. Doesn’t mean the Trump wall is the answer.

Both sides want border security. Only Trumpians see the wall as some immigration panacea.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What makes you think that those coming in legally are different in that regard?

Those entering legally are more educated.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Fair enough. Doesn’t mean the Trump wall is the answer.

Both sides want border security. Only Trumpians see the wall as some immigration panacea.

The wall is an important part of an overall immigration plan.

 

[jgarden]

If Congress becomes the stumblingblock and risk making the Dems be the villians of the story, they might as well hand over Trump the second term lol.

The Democratic leadership offered to support legislation that would have given $25 billion for "THE WALL" last January 2018, in return for averting a government shutdown and providing a pathway to citizenship for the "DREAMERS!"

The Democratic leadership got "burned" when Trump reneged on the deal, coupled with the intense criticism they received from their base who strongly oppose everything "THE WALL represents!

So fast forward 11 months to find that "THE GREAT NEGOTIATOR" in the Oval Office has effectively squandered his best chance for financing "THE WALL," and the Democratic leadership, in a much stronger bargaining position, who see no reason to risk alienating their own supporters just so that this President can pacify his conservative base!

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The wall is an important part of an overall immigration plan.

But not the wall as Trump and his supporters envision it. There may be parts of the border that need a wall, but not the whole thing.

We need a coherent plan, not a campaign rally chant.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But not the wall as Trump and his supporters envision it. There may be parts of the border that need a wall, but not the whole thing.

We need a coherent plan, not a campaign rally chant.

Absolutely. I have already outlined a great plan.

Hardened chain link fence topped with razor wire (easy to build, inexpensive, temporary, recyclable).
Guarded by the military (already trained for 'guard duty', fully armed, and already paid).

Other details upon request.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Absolutely. I have already outlined a great plan.

Hardened chain link fence topped with razor wire (easy to build, inexpensive, temporary, recyclable).
Guarded by the military (already trained for 'guard duty', fully armed, and already paid).

Other details upon request.

I agree other than the military part. Need better funded border patrol. Military is not trained for border patrol. Guarding a military installation is not the same.

Probably also don’t need people all along the border. Need advanced technologies in places too.

This is why I do not support any wall funding now - because it is not part of a comprehensive plan and there is no indication that Trump has such a plan.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I agree other than the military part. Need better funded border patrol. Military is not trained for border patrol. Guarding a military installation is not the same.

The main duty of the soldier is to observe and report. Not much training needed there.

Probably also don’t need people all along the border. Need advanced technologies in places too.

Technologies are the most easily defeated measure. Direct observation is not easily defeated.

This is why I do not support any wall funding now - because it is not part of a comprehensive plan and there is no indication that Trump has such a plan.

Stopping the flow across the border is the most important part of any plan. Shutting off the main water valve is the first thing you do when a pipe ruptures.

 

[jacks]

Maybe it would be more palatable if they called it a Border Barrier instead of Wall. That way we get the fence and the democrats can say the prevented Trump's "Wall" and the republicans can say they got the border security. Everyone is happy!

 

[EpiscipalMe]

The main duty of the soldier is to observe and report. Not much training needed there.



Technologies are the most easily defeated measure. Direct observation is not easily defeated.



Stopping the flow across the border is the most important part of any plan. Shutting off the main water valve is the first thing you do when a pipe ruptures.

People still miss stuff. Besides, there are long stretches of the border out in the middle of no where - here technologies make more sense.

Also, the duty of border patrol is not just observe and report, but also intervene - that is where training is needed. Why extend the mandate of the military when we already have Customs and Border Patrol to do the job.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Maybe it would be more palatable if they called it a Border Barrier instead of Wall. That way we get the fence and the democrats can say the prevented Trump's "Wall" and the republicans can say they got the border security. Everyone is happy!

The wall would be more palatable if it weren’t a stupid idea.

 

[The Barbarian]

Forty-seven percent of adults hold Trump responsible, while 33 percent blame Democrats in Congress, according to the Dec. 21-25 poll, conducted mostly after the shutdown began. Seven percent of Americans blamed congressional Republicans.

The shutdown was triggered by Trump’s demand, largely opposed by Democrats and some lawmakers from his own Republican Party, that taxpayers provide him with $5 billion to help pay for a wall that he wants to build along the U.S.-Mexico border. Its total estimated cost is $23 billion.

Just 35 percent of those surveyed in the opinion poll said they backed including money for the wall in a congressional spending bill. Only 25 percent said they supported Trump shutting down the government over the matter.

In a statement on Thursday, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said, “The president has made clear that any bill to fund the government must adequately fund border security.”

The statement made no mention of Trump’s proposed wall.
More Americans blame Trump for government shutdown: Reuters/Ipsos poll | Reuters

 

[The Barbarian]

The Barbarian said: ↑
What makes you think that those coming in legally are different in that regard?

Those entering legally are more educated.

Show us that. Checkable source.

 

[miamited]

Hi JP,

Personally, I can't see that some physical barrier such as a wall, is going to make a lot of difference in the numbers. I also find it rather ironic, that we have plenty of money apparently to beef up our military to the tune of several billion dollars, we can build a physical barrier for another several billion dollars, but we don't have the money in the pot to give federal workers a 2-3% annual raise.

President Trump seems to have set his course to leave a legacy of a physical wall between our two nations. Honestly, I appreciated President Obama's legacy of an affordable working health care system to President Trump's legacy of a wall. Even President Trump wants to use cheap immigrant labor for his business, while decrying that those same people are taking our jobs and killing our people. Sounds like a pile of bull dung to me.

I honestly don't think that President Trump has a clue on how international trade works, or really much of anything else. He's pretty much made his money just in capitalizing on his trademark name. Many of his actual businesses that he pursued have long been bankrupted. He's really not a 'wise' businessman. He's a 'ruthless' businessman. I truly believe that when/if his tax returns are ever reviewed, we're going to find out that he's been pulling a Leona Helmsley over on all of us poor sots that pay taxes. We may well find that all of his 'many' businesses are really nothing more than his 'charitable' foundation...just a way for him to hide his money. If that's what the people of this country define as a 'good' businessman, then I'm afraid we're in some very deep trouble as we continue on.

That's just my understanding and I can assure you that I won't be voting for him in 2020 if he lasts that long.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The Barbarian said: ↑
What makes you think that those coming in legally are different in that regard?



Show us that. Checkable source.

I will condescend to your request although it should not be necessary.

Family & Diversity Immigrants Are Far Better Educated Than U.S.-Born Americans

 

[mark kennedy]

What do you think? Will Trump's wall ever get built?

Yes, when Trump actually learns the art of a deal includes compromise and consensus. He has had it handed to him on a silver platter but refuses to compromise, he will fold or he will fail. I'm optimistic though, he will fold.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Hi JP,

Personally, I can't see that some physical barrier such as a wall, is going to make a lot of difference in the numbers. I also find it rather ironic, that we have plenty of money apparently to beef up our military to the tune of several billion dollars, we can build a physical barrier for another several billion dollars, but we don't have the money in the pot to give federal workers a 2-3% annual raise.

President Trump seems to have set his course to leave a legacy of a physical wall between our two nations. Honestly, I appreciated President Obama's legacy of an affordable working health care system to President Trump's legacy of a wall. Even President Trump wants to use cheap immigrant labor for his business, while decrying that those same people are taking our jobs and killing our people. Sounds like a pile of bull dung to me.

I honestly don't think that President Trump has a clue on how international trade works, or really much of anything else. He's pretty much made his money just in capitalizing on his trademark name. Many of his actual businesses that he pursued have long been bankrupted. He's really not a 'wise' businessman. He's a 'ruthless' businessman. I truly believe that when/if his tax returns are ever reviewed, we're going to find out that he's been pulling a Leona Helmsley over on all of us poor sots that pay taxes. We may well find that all of his 'many' businesses are really nothing more than his 'charitable' foundation...just a way for him to hide his money. If that's what the people of this country define as a 'good' businessman, then I'm afraid we're in some very deep trouble as we continue on.

That's just my understanding and I can assure you that I won't be voting for him in 2020 if he lasts that long.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Trump is in the real estate business...smart, very smart.