Will the Mark be something like this?

[crystalpc]

Andrew,

No, I don't believe that's what the mark of the beast will be.

Remember, you can't be subjected to taking mark, you have to choose to take it.

To be honest, I don't know what the mark's going to be. I've heard several theories and there are a couple that make sense.

I'm not all that worried about it because I believe that the church will be gone before this happens, anyway.

Tami makes a good point and that would certainly seem to indicate a literal mark of some kind but I tend to believe that it's simply an unregenerate heart.

This has concerned me who will do the choosing. If a baby has a chip put in at birth, would he have chosen it. If that is truly the mark, or will it be a matter only for adults? Such as the face recognition technology. They don't use that on baby's or small children. They are already beginning to try and market these chips to implant some small children

There was another company in Florida called Digital Angel that was pushing this chip.

I ran across this after a google search.
http://www.detnews.com/2002/health/0205/16/a04-486300.htm
Implanted chips track patients
Devices hold key medical, ID information that can be read by hospital scanners

By David Streitfeld / Los Angeles Times

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FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- Eight people will be injected with silicon chips today, making them scannable just like a jar of peanut butter in the supermarket checkout line.
The miniature devices, about the size of a grain of rice, were developed by Florida company Applied Digital Solutions Inc. They will be targeted to families of Alzheimer's patients -- one of the fastest growing groups in American society -- as well as others who have complicated medical histories. more...

What about these Alziemer's patients, they do not have the capability to refuse or accept this thing?

And this on WND

CEO Sullivan has suggested that all foreigners entering the U.S. should be injected with the company’s chips, which he said should replace green cards. While ADS has repeatedly stated that they are only pursuing voluntary applications of the chips, their proposed uses clearly indicate otherwise. The stunning array of potential uses ADS is pushing aggressively include the implantation of prisoners, parolees, people under house arrest, children, the elderly, airport workers, nuclear power plant workers, gun owners and computer users (as a form of logon ID).

The company also envisions the implanted chips creating a "cashless society," being used instead of ATM and credit cards. ADS also wants to control all of the databases for all uses of the chips.

As you know all the new cell phones and pda have this device in them.

 

[altya]

I thought the church would be in tribulation for half of the time. I must say that I dont know much about this subject.

 

[crystalpc]

The rapture "theory" was preached and taught before Capps and Perry presented it. Granted, it is less than one hundred years in the teaching but this in no way discounts it. The Pentecostle movement is less than one hundred years old, along with the Charismatic and Word of Faith movements.
If the church was still here through the tribulation why would it not be addressed as it had from Acts through Jude and as Christ has done in the first 3 chapters of Revelation?

IMHO

Love, Peace, and Grace!

Greg

I know the rapture theory was taught before this, what we were talking about was the recent teaching or new teaching of the word Apostasy, which was always taught as a falling away of the church, not a catching up, (rapture).
Our church taught Thess like this: "that day shall not come until there is a great falling away, and always coupled with; because iniquities shall abound the love of many will wax cold. "
"And although Rapture is not in the bible neither is Trinity, but we know that is true.
It was agreed at that time that rapture was not found in the bible. Now these teachers are teaching that it is found, in the word apostasy. The great falling away...this is what we were talking about.
As far as when it will be, I won't argue that. I hear Zola Levit and Chuck Missler talking about the Hebrew weddings and the groom coming for the bride in the night. The seven day wedding feast. And that is the reason I swung back toward a pre-trib view. That is until September 11.
I pray that your view is right.
However, Rapture is only taught predominantly in the Western church, not many African, or Asain Christians teach it. It was not taught in the Reformation, but became popularized with John Darby in the 1800s, his student was Scoffield.
I won't argue with any believer on this doctrine though because it doesn't matter that much. Although tribulation is going to be a horrible thing for any caring person to live through God can see us through. If we are raptured before tribulations then he can also see us through.
I simply point out why I have believed what I have believed about it at various times in my walk. I do really do hope you are right.
If we go through Tribulation the Holy Spirit will empower us, if not then he will still empower us. God will not fall off his throne either way.
So the timing is not the important question, but the readiness becomes the most important..
I have to say though your reasoning is good. I pray you are right.

 

[crystalpc]

I just saw your statement about the pentecostal movement. After a while my eyes become fatigued, sorry.
Although Asouza street happened around 1912. I belonged to a pentecostal church that was founded in the last quarter of 1800's a 120 years ago.
“Brief History of the Church that is Now Recognized as the Church of God”
By A.J. Tomlinson
About the year 1884, a spirit of dissatisfaction and unrest began to work in the mind of a licensed minister of
the Missionary Baptist church by the name of Richard G. Spurling, then living in Monroe County, Tenn.
The dissatisfaction arose because of certain traditions and creeds which were burdensome and exceedingly binding on the members."
This is an excerpt of "In their own words" http://www.churchofgod.cc/heritage/HistoryTomlinson.PDF
Even before that though God has always had pentecostals. The methodist church was called the grandfather of Pentecostalism that history went in this wise.
Reciting now a Biographical tract about John Wesley founder of the Holy Club.
John Wesley founder of the Holy club in England was returning to England after visiting in the Americas. During a violent storm which often comes up on the North Atlantic during a winter crossing, the ship was imperiled and thought to be sinking. John and the other passengers along with all of the crew feared the ship would sink, and became extremely frightened. Then he noticed a small group of people huddled together they showed no apparent fear. This surprised him, and he made inquiry about this group, what caused them to be so calm in the face of what would have been death.
Asking about he found that they were "Moravains" a church that was persecuted in Lutheran Germany because of their strange beliefs. They met secretly at night in brush arbors away from the public eye, telling no one of the meetings.
Any ways my words now, when John got back to England he and another brother of the "Holy Club" sought out one of their meetings where they practiced that which was practiced in the early church. Later Wesley said he had never been as calm in the face of fear as that little group of people who simply trusted God.
They were not the only pentecostals God has always had a people from the Waldenses in the 12th century to the Quakers in the 1600s who got their name because of their habit of shaking under the power of the Holy Spirit. And even before that time.
Of course there are more pentecostals today than at anytime in history. It is reported that it is the fastest growing church in Asia, with over 35 million in China alone. Vietnam has a large Pentecostal population as does Thailand. That should not surprise us though Scriptures said in the last days I will pour my spirit down on all flesh, your sons and daughters shall prophesy.. The Holy Spirit has been doing a work for these final days.
Praise God.
Sorry I love Church History.

 

[crystalpc]

I thought the church would be in tribulation for half of the time. I must say that I dont know much about this subject.

That is the view of the mid-trib theory. It is derived also from ll Thessolonians and Revelation
That day shall not come until that son of perdition will be revealed. The reasoning is that the Antichrist appears after 31/2 years of tribulation in Revelation, and promptly causes all both rich and poor small and great to recieve a mark. Sorry I don't have the exact quote for you, but my bible software is closed right now.

 

[altya]

That is the view of the mid-trib theory. It is derived also from ll Thessolonians and Revelation
That day shall not come until that son of perdition will be revealed. The reasoning is that the Antichrist appears after 31/2 years of tribulation in Revelation, and promptly causes all both rich and poor small and great to recieve a mark. Sorry I don't have the exact quote for you, but my bible software is closed right now.

Please post the scripture reference when you have time. This thread caught my curiosity and I want to know more.

In 1993 I heard a sermon preaching by Theo Wolmaranse about the end times. He spoke very well and said things that most Christians of that time did not want to know and after that he was not popular anymore. This keeps most SA preachers away from this subject.

Please keep on posting on this topic. It would be nice if some one can post the sequence of events regarding the rapture and tribulation with scripture references and when the mark of the beast will be implemented.

 

[Godz Marine]

The reasoning is that the Antichrist appears after 31/2 years of tribulation in Revelation, and promptly causes all both rich and poor small and great to recieve a mark.

The 7 seals and first 6 trumpets take place in succession in the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation week. Also during this time, the beginning of the week, the daily sacrifice is once again established within the temple, appeasing Israel.

When we the first seal is opened we can see the appearance of the Anti-Christ. He appears as our Lord but this is his deception. He brings peace to Israel (the world also??) We can also read in Daniel 9:27 that this is the time of the appearance of the Anti-Christ. He establishes a covenant "with many" for one week, with a "week" here having been previously described as a period of 7 years.

This peace he brings will only last the first 3 1/2 years after which the sacrifice is abolished and the Anti-Christ sets himself up within the temple, presenting himself as God (the Abomination of Desloation). At this time he will attempt to force ( not cause for there are many who do not receive the mark) everyone to receive the mark.

Now that he has set himself up as God he will now attemt to rule his "empire" (new revised Roman empire) with an iron fist. This reign will last throughout most of the last half of the week until he begins to lose control. He must then leave the temple to "go take care of business" and when he does the sacrifice is yet again established within the temple.

On another note, Revelation, or the revealing of Daniel's 70th week, is meant to fulfill the last week, or Daniels 70th week which God Himself has reserved for a time known only by Him so as to fulfill the prophecy of the 70 weeks. This final week deals with the disobedience and rebellion of the Nation of Israel, not the church. This last and final week has a manifold purpose.

It is to:
1. Finish the transgression
2. Make an end of sins
3. Make reconcilliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. To seal up the vision and prophecy
6. To annoint the most Holy.

Week 69 was finished with the Messiah having been "cut off" (in death) which leaves nothing left to be fulfilled before the start of the 70th week. God all throughout the Bible has given Israel many an opportunity to repent and turn,with Christ being the greatest opportunity given yet rejected by Israel as a nation.

From Genesis to John terminologies and references were directed to the Jews. From Acts to Revelation 4 we can see a difference in these terminologies and references and they are directed to the body of Christ, the church. Once we begin reading from Revelation 4 on we can see that terminologies and references once again are directed at Israel. The church, or body of Christ isn't even mentioned by word or name. Perhaps this may be because the church was caught up, raptured to be with Christ "in the air."

IMHO

Love, Peace, and Grace!

Greg

 

[crystalpc]

Greg,
You are right there is the reference in Daniel I forgot, this does form many mid-trib opinions on it. And there are some valid points in the belief.
Daniel 8 and 12.

This peace he brings will only last the first 3 1/2 years after which the sacrifice is abolished and the Anti-Christ sets himself up within the temple, presenting himself as God (the Abomination of Desloation). At this time he will attempt to force ( not cause for there are many who do not receive the mark) everyone to receive the mark

Many Scholars believe that the desolation took place when Antiochus sacrificed a pig on the Altar during the Macabeen uprising. But we know that it was not what Daniel was talking about because of Jesus own words in Matthew when he said: when you see the abomination of desolation take place as spoken by the Prophet Daniel.
The pig on the altar was an abomination, but by far a worse abomination than a pig would take place. With the Antichrist being the embodiment of Satan himself sitting down and proclaiming himself to be God in the holy of holies. What an abomination!
Chuck Missler also brings out the points you made between the Church and the Jewish saints.
Did you realize that the persecution of the Jews lasted 7 years in Germany during WWll? If you have ever read the history of that time, especially the transcripts from the Nuremberg trials, you would be horrified at the suffering they put people through. We have a lot of our medical advances in owing to them (they documented their experiements) but what a horrendous cost. One experiment was to see how many times bones could be shattered and still heal without setting them. From 9 day old babies as opposed to 9 mos, as opposed to 6 years and on and on to every age group. It is impossible for us to believe that some who died immediately were considered the lucky ones.

I do know that the Tribulation time is called in the old Testament a time of Jacobs trouble. I have heard some compare the tribulation of Jews in Germany under Hitler being mild compared to the Antichirst. It is beyond imagination the horrors that are still to come.
It is one reason I pray that the pre-trib doctrine is true. I have heard many say the theory comes from the fact that God made a way of escape for Noah, but that is not convincing logic because he didn't deliver Noah out of the Flood but through it. A better example would be Enoch, who was translated before the Flood took place.
I can see why God had to seal the door of the Ark, could you imagine the horror of listening to people scream, begging to come in when the Flood waters rose. There is evidence they didn't believe Noah, because it had simply never rained before the Flood. Genesis tells us that the earth was watered by dew. Then the firmament opened up and the floodgates of heaven and earth were opened. What horror! Chuck Missler also seems to believe that Noah was the only pure blooded human being of his time left. That all the families of the earths blood except his was tainted by the fallen angels, it is a compelling thought.
Our only hope is to be ready to stand no matter what, if he takes us out, or brings us through he is able to keep us in the hollow of his hand, I have to trust that knowledge.

 

[crystalpc]

Please post the scripture reference when you have time. This thread caught my curiosity and I want to know more.

In 1993 I heard a sermon preaching by Theo Wolmaranse about the end times. He spoke very well and said things that most Christians of that time did not want to know and after that he was not popular anymore. This keeps most SA preachers away from this subject.

It is a very unpopular teaching, people don't like to hear especially in the USA (or in countrys where Christianity hasn't come at such a high price) that there may be a time when we are called to do more than give lip service to our faith. I am not dogmatic on any view as you can probably tell by my post Revelation was given to the Church to let us know what would happen in the last day, I believe so it wouldn't take us by surprise. It is the only book in the bible that has a promise of a blessing to those who read it and hear it. It admonishes us over and over he who has ears to hear let him hear.
Revelation speaks of the 31/2 year period in Revelation 11 when it talks about the ministry of the 2 witnesses.
Greg (Godz Marine) gives a good interpretation in his reply to that and also supplies the references for Daniel. Which also points out the hope of the pre-trib theory. It would be a matter of what saints he is addressing.
IMHO I believe that the whole book is addressing the church, since it states that in the opening statement of the Book as to who it is written to. I think it was writen to forewarn us of things to come, God never does anything to take his children by surprise.
Also IMHO I pray that the pre-trib theory is right. I cannot stand to see people suffer, I don't believe we will suffer Gods wrath, but it tells us in Revelation 12 that the dragon first goes after the woman who bore the child, (Israel) then after the remnant of the womans seed.
Jewish people are not considered the remnant of the woman, but are always referred to by their father Abraham, or Jacob. Jesus was the only man ever that was born without an earthly Father and of the seed of the woman alone. Logic would say then that the remnant of her seed would be the church, the second born of the Father, and the spiritual seed of Abraham rather than the physical seed.

Please keep on posting on this topic. It would be nice if some one can post the sequence of events regarding the rapture and tribulation with scripture references and when the mark of the beast will be implemented.

Greg gives a good description of this in his post, of the sequence. The only thing that I am not sure of is the timing of the Rapture. We do know there will be a rapture, but the timing is not as clear. The rest of the chronology holds up though.
First the time of satan being loosed on the earth, which in my belief has already taken place as we see the shift of Gods focus away from the west to the eastern church. I believe that as part of the western church, that if we do not repent we are in the process of being spewed from his mouth. I think that does not speak to born-again spirit filled Christians but what the world considers as christendom.
Although God is speaking to me and several of my friends to start praying for personal holiness and repenting of trying to win people by compomise, but so far he is speaking to individuals. I am not seeing a called revival taking place yet, but I believe one is beginning, simply stating reviving "his people". Reviving means to bring back to life something that was alive, and now is dead.

 

[Godz Marine]

The pig on the altar was an abomination, but by far a worse abomination than a pig would take place. With the Antichrist being the embodiment of Satan himself sitting down and proclaiming himself to be God in the holy of holies. What an abomination!

First, allow me to recant my previous statement. In my haste to post before leaving for church I made a claim that is in error somewhat. The Anti-Chirst doesn't so much proclaim himself as God but simply speaks blasphemies against the God of gods (Dan 11:36-37). He may or may not proclaim himself as God, this being left to speculation but chances are he will.

However his goal will be to fulfill the Abomination of Desolation which is to turn the temple where the God of the Jews, the Great I Am was once worshipped into a house of worship for the god of the Anti-Christ (Dan 11:38-39). He will convert the temple of righteousness into a house of wickedness and promote Satanism as the religion of truth.

Did you realize that the persecution of the Jews lasted 7 years in Germany during WWll? If you have ever read the history of that time, especially the transcripts from the Nuremberg trials, you would be horrified at the suffering they put people through. We have a lot of our medical advances in owing to them (they documented their experiements) but what a horrendous cost. One experiment was to see how many times bones could be shattered and still heal without setting them. From 9 day old babies as opposed to 9 mos, as opposed to 6 years and on and on to every age group. It is impossible for us to believe that some who died immediately were considered the lucky ones.

Yes, I new of the 7 year horror of the Holocaust but it in no way will compare to what awaits the nation of Israel in the Tribulation period. This is why we should pray for the peace of Israel. It is not a peace of this world, a natural peace, but a peace of their hearts, a Spiritual peace, towards God the Father.

Our only hope is to be ready to stand no matter what, if he takes us out, or brings us through he is able to keep us in the hollow of his hand, I have to trust that knowledge.

This was Jesus' hope also. In Matthew 24:3 the disciples ask of Jesus When will these things be? (verse 2) What will be the sign of your coming (this is not in reference to the rapture for they had no idea of a rature) And what will be the sign of the end of the age (tribulation)? Jesus goes on through out the rest of this chapter (up to verse 31) to answer their questions but then goes on (starting with verse 31) through chapter 25:30 to tell them parables that seemed entirely different but were all telling the very same thing in admonishing and encouraging them to be ready for whenever. Then in verses 31-46 He tells them/us what we must be doing in making/showing ourselves ready.

Love, Peace, and Grace!

Greg

 

[crystalpc]

First, allow me to recant my previous statement. In my haste to post before leaving for church I made a claim that is in error somewhat. The Anti-Chirst doesn't so much proclaim himself as God but simply speaks blasphemies against the God of gods (Dan 11:36-37). He may or may not proclaim himself as God, this being left to speculation but chances are he will.

This is the irony of that old dragon. He has tried to proclaim himself God from the beginning.

Yes, I new of the 7 year horror of the Holocaust but it in no way will compare to what awaits the nation of Israel in the Tribulation period. This is why we should pray for the peace of Israel. It is not a peace of this world, a natural peace, but a peace of their hearts, a Spiritual peace, towards God the Father.

I agree with you, Zechariah says that over 2/3 will be killed, but the remnant will recognize and recieve Jesus as Messiah. The 2/3 is a horrible amount of carnage. I pray for their physical peace, and for their spiritual peace, if pre-trib is right many of them could be gone before that carnage starts, and make the number less.

This was Jesus' hope also. In Matthew 24:3 the disciples ask of Jesus When will these things be? (verse 2) What will be the sign of your coming (this is not in reference to the rapture for they had no idea of a rature) And what will be the sign of the end of the age (tribulation)? Jesus goes on through out the rest of this chapter (up to verse 31) to answer their questions but then goes on (starting with verse 31) through chapter 25:30 to tell them parables that seemed entirely different but were all telling the very same thing in admonishing and encouraging them to be ready for whenever. Then in verses 31-46 He tells them/us what we must be doing in making/showing ourselves ready.

Love, Peace, and Grace!

Greg

I know some have thought and taught that Jesus was referring to the Rapture, but that would say that half of all people would be saved. He was really warning them of the trouble to come.
I was listening to Jack Hayford teach on Revelation. From what he said he believes in a mid-trib theory. He said that he believe Rapture would take place at the great earthquake John saw.
One of the reasons my belief shifted away from the pre-trib Rapture is that I believe that tribulation has already started, making Jesus return more immanent than we can imagine. It is my firm belief that around the year 2001 satan was turned loose upon the earth. Islam went to war with every major religion in the world. We had Martin and Grace Burnham being held in the Philippines. India's parliament under muslim attack, along with a train full of India's citizens burned alive! Of course we also had the attack on the WTC and Israel under attack in a declared Fatwa.
The Fatwa was called in the fall of 2000 after Sharone, (with the permission of the emam something that was rarely reported) went up to the temple mount. Add to that the attacks in Indonesia.
There also seems to be a major paradigm shift with God calling the Western church to revival as the Asian and African church comes more to the forefront. China is training and sending out 100,000 missionaries to march to Jerusalem, they are being taught the customs of the Islamic world they will encounter on the way, how to witness to them, and call them to repentance. How to suffer and die if need be for the Lord, God be with them.
We are living in exciting times Brother. Times that the church has dreamt of from the beginning. Perilous times for sure, heartbreaking times, but we are to lift up our heads for our redemption is drawing nigh.

God Bless you I will meet you there one day, and we will set down and talk a couple of hundred years
..
Crystal

 

[Godz Marine]

It is my firm belief that around the year 2001 satan was turned loose upon the earth.

????????

The only biblical reference to Satan being release upon the earth is after the 1000 year reign of Christ which has yet to take place.
Otherwise Satan has always been "released" on earth since he was cast out of heaven. He has been our adversary for quite a long time.

As for the tribulation, I am a pre-trib believer. I take this stance for I believe that since the Revelation period is Daniel's 70th week reserved for the nation of Israel that the church plays no part in it. The tribulation is a time of judgement and the body of Christ is exempt from judgement through salvation. It is not that we cannot bear it for we could, more than the unbeliever because of the blood of Christ but there is significant scripture and significance within scripture to show othewise.

Perhaps we should start a new thread pertaining to the rapture!

Love, Peace, and Grace!

Greg

 

[crystalpc]

????????

The only biblical reference to Satan being release upon the earth is after the 1000 year reign of Christ which has yet to take place.
Otherwise Satan has always been "released" on earth since he was cast out of heaven. He has been our adversary for quite a long time.


Perhaps we should start a new thread pertaining to the rapture!

Love, Peace, and Grace!

Greg

What I was talking about is that in the last days, iniquity will wax worse and worse, I should have been clearer about it. For iniquity to wax worse Satan is involved.

Why don't you start a thread about Rapture, I would like to see what others believe about it, and why they believe what they believe.

As you know, my views have changed over my lifetime of christian living, and I am open to any good reasoning on the subject as long as it is not contrary with the word itself. I want to believe that we will avoid the horrors of the great tribulation. I also want to be ready for anything that comes along in case we are here during the time.
There are specific questions I have asked myself in studying such as:
Will Jewish Christians betray one another? who is he talking about here? All Jewish people will be Messianic at the time according to Zechriah.


Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I have also asked myself this question in order to see who he was talking too (and although I realize that this will complete the 70th week of Daniel) who was the book of Revelation addressed to? I find it was addressed to the churches in it's opening statements. Which are followed by the letters to the seven church's.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Another thing that has formed my current position on the timing of the Rapture is that:
I have always taken it to be as specific as the prophecies of the old testament and hold to the same rules. The old testament prophets all addressed the people to whom the prophecy was given. Jonah didn't go to Jerusalem to prophecy to Nineveh, he went to Nineveh. We see this over and over in the old testament.
As I said I am not sure, but this and the scriptures I mentioned in my other posts has made me question the pre-trib theory.







Blessings brother,
Crystal

 

[Charlesinflorida]

I sort of stumbled ino this thread by mistake, by allowing my pointer slip while clicking. But I found the discussion has changed from the original title. But I would like to coment if it's OK, concerning the "mark". In the scriptures the heart of Judaism, and the profession of faith in one God is encapsulated in the Shema. It is the anthem of the faith, the profession of belief in the one God and the commandment to hold to (be obedient to ) His word (Torah) which means instruction.

We are to bind them upon our hearts and minds, symbolized by our hands and upon our foreheads. What you do (hands) and what you think( forehead). (You shall bind them (the Commandments) upon your hand and you shall wear them as frontlets between your eyes.)

Cutting now to the chase. Perhaps the mark that differentiates between Gods people and those who are not his is their observance of the Sabbath which is His "sign between me and you throughout all your generations" and with that the obedience to His instructions (Torah). Yeshua (Jesus) said, "If you love me, then Keep my commandments". Notice that in the revelation those who the beast pursues to destroy who are the true believers, and they are identiied by two features, they have aith in Yeshua the Messiah and they keep the commandments of God. So again we see the mark in spiritual terms as those who have faith and express it through active works as James and John say in their letters. It is what they believe and what they do. In Judaism faith is not a creed it is a way of living. The disciples speak of faith in this same way. It always demands action. Faith is active, alive, a way of living, and not just what we hold as truth or understanding. So those who are faithful and considered righteous by that faith trust God and are obedient to Him in all his instruction. Compre this to those who only hold to a creed, saying one thing and doing something else, those who say they have faith and know God but live far from Gods instruction. To these Yeshua will say, depart from me for I never knew you.

Charles in Florida.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

On the subject of the return of the Lord,I will try to paste in a link to an article which tries to address the suject of the Revelation. I believe that many people view the Revelation incorrectly. All the word of God is true and must agree. The test of all scripture is that there must be agreement especially with the Tankah (Old Testament) . But the way the Revelation has been studied by most makes for glaring contraditions. This study reconciles all scripture and sychronizes the Tribulation timelines from both old and new testament writings.

If you have had trouble understanding the Revelation, I blieive this will clarify and simplify much. I hope the link paste works OK.


http://home.earthlink.net/~cfryalls/rapturecoming.html

Charles in Florida.

 

[crystalpc]

I sort of stumbled ino this thread by mistake, by allowing my pointer slip while clicking. But I found the discussion has changed from the original title. But I would like to coment if it's OK, concerning the "mark". In the scriptures the heart of Judaism, and the profession of faith in one God is encapsulated in the Shema. It is the anthem of the faith, the profession of belief in the one God and the commandment to hold to (be obedient to ) His word (Torah) which means instruction.

Charles in Florida.

Charles
Glad you stumbled in yes we did get a bit off topic but Greg opened another thread for the rapture topic.
I fogot the custom of hand and forehead. You could be right. I think it is right for the 144,000 chosen who will evangelize.
Please elaborate on your view of Revelation and our Lords second coming though. I will find it fascinating.
There is a scripture that sounds like the mark will be visible at least through machine lasers, or cameras.
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[crystalpc]

Thanks for the link I will take a look at it later.

 

[crystalpc]

Charles
I went to the link and printed it out, are you the same Charles who had Yeshua the King forums? I use to go there all the time! I found a lot of friends there, and I use to read Charles stuff all the time.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Crystalpc,

I am afraid I am guiltyof this. . . yes. . .one and the same. The link is to a new location for the old Yeshua the King site files. I have been off line for most of the last two years while going back to school for some medical training.

Let me state for others another thought:

The tribulation really isn't 7 years long. The covenant of death with Antichrist is 7 years but it is broken in the midst of it. Somewhere near the middle. The tribulation is a specific length of time and is given to us in Daniel 12. It is 1290 days for the world. However Yeshua said that for the sake of the elect (The chosen) those days would be shortened. Not for the entire world, but for the blievers. It is shortened to 1263 1/2 days. The two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days and then are killed. They are dead for three and a half days, and then raised up, and with them the entire church is raptured and the righteous dead raised as well. This all takes place at the second coming. What follows if Armageddon.

Now and important thing to notice is that the true believers during the tribulation, those that are worthy of this Rapture at the second coming, are identified by two factors, They have faith in Yeshua the Messiah and They keep the Commandments of God. This is stated in several places for us. We should take this description to heart and see if it fits our lives.

Charles in Florida

 

[crystalpc]

I am afraid I am guiltyof this. . . yes. . .one and the same. The link is to a new location for the old Yeshua the King site files. I have been off line for most of the last two years while going back to school for some medical training.

Good to see you back brother!

The tribulation really isn't 7 years long. The covenant of death with Antichrist is 7 years but it is broken in the midst of it. Somewhere near the middle. The tribulation is a specific length of time and is given to us in Daniel 12. It is 1290 days for the world. However Yeshua said that for the sake of the elect (The chosen) those days would be shortened. Not for the entire world, but for the blievers. It is shortened to 1263 1/2 days. The two witnesses prophesy for 1260 days and then are killed. They are dead for three and a half days, and then raised up, and with them the entire church is raptured and the righteous dead raised as well. This all takes place at the second coming. What follows if Armageddon.

This would seem to hold a mid-trib view, or mid covenant of death. Yet not quite If the whole tribulation period takes place in 1290 days we will be here through most of it minus the 20?
I will go back and read the entire book and try it with new eyes. We know that Daniels 70 weeks would be fulfilled, during this time. I am currently reading the article. to see what you say about this time, will you be ready for questions?
God has been dealing me about personal revival, as he has with several of my friends. I think those very days are upon us myself.
When we as Gentiles without much knowledge of customs read Revealation, we forget that John was a very Hebraic writer. Perry Stone although he says 7 years still teaches those hebraic roots of John with wisdom. It is a fascinating study, on which very eternal lives are wrapped up in.
My prayer is Father let me have ears to hear.