Will some men have low level jobs in Heaven, like door-keepers ?

[RDKirk]

The Psalms say in His Presence is the fullness of joy.

Mary chose to sit at Jesus' feet and not be a Martha.

Jesus said I go prepare a place for you, that you may be where I am.


How does overseeing an outpost in a faraway place fit with these truths ?

I could give you a science fictiony answer and tell you that heaven is in an adjacent dimension that is never farther away than making a right-angle turn out of our dimension...and that might actually be the case, although it seems scripturally that it's necessary to rias a bit from the surface of the earth before making the inter-dimensional twist.

But God is everywhere, and you carry the Holy Spirit with you. I have an address on earth, but I don't spend all my time at home. I go to work, then I go back home.

I'm at the age that I being to grok Ecclesiastes. Also, having spent a career in the military, I understand that having a part in the mission of a revered commander is more fulfilling than just doing stuff with no aim.

If the Lord is working in this universe, I'd rather be activively pursuing His work.

All we're really talking about here is a return of Man to the work God originally gave Adam and Eve: Stewards of creation.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I could give you a science fictiony answer and tell you that heaven is in an adjacent dimension that is never farther away than making a right-angle turn out of our dimension...and that might actually be the case, although it seems scripturally that it's necessary to rias a bit from the surface of the earth before making the inter-dimensional twist.

But God is everywhere, and you carry the Holy Spirit with you. I have an address on earth, but I don't spend all my time at home. I go to work, then I go back home.

I'm at the age that I being to grok Ecclesiastes. Also, having spent a career in the military, I understand that having a part in the mission of a revered commander is more fulfilling than just doing stuff with no aim.

If the Lord is working in this universe, I'd rather be activively pursuing His work.

All we're really talking about here is a return of Man to the work God originally gave Adam and Eve: Stewards of creation.

'preciate the Heinlein reference.

I need to re-read those babies, been 30 years or so.

Do you remember the one where they are going to wor-SHIP ?


Yeah, God is Spirit, and we are His children. Although we are now "jars of clay", we will one day be like Him. Jesus tell us The Kingdom of Heaven is within us. So, are we a calling a place a state of being or vice versa ? Some of the concepts we are describing demand that we use our limited vocabularly to discuss our future unknown spiritual exisitence by using our limited, deficient, and temporal terminology.

 

[candle glow]

The OP talked about "low level jobs" in Heaven, like "door men" etc...

But, I think the question is a bit biased to start with. Why is being a door man a "low level" job? What about toilet cleaners? Try to imagine what it'd be like if no one cleaned any toilets, and then ask yourself if you really believe that you be a "low level" job.

Jesus talked A LOT about the need to be a servant, to help others, and to show love. This is why I suggested that God's idea of rewards will probably be quite different to ours. There are no "low level" jobs, as long as the people who are doing those jobs are doing it for God's glory and for the benefit of their brothers and sisters.

 

[Yahu]

The OP talked about "low level jobs" in Heaven, like "door men" etc...

But, I think the question is a bit biased to start with. Why is being a door man a "low level" job? What about toilet cleaners? Try to imagine what it'd be like if no one cleaned any toilets, and then ask yourself if you really believe that you be a "low level" job.

Jesus talked A LOT about the need to be a servant, to help others, and to show love. This is why I suggested that God's idea of rewards will probably be quite different to ours. There are no "low level" jobs, as long as the people who are doing those jobs are doing it for God's glory and for the benefit of their brothers and sisters.

You miss the point, to serve on Earth is to be GREAT in the kingdom. Yeshua served on earth but He RULES in heaven. He was the greatest servant of all and laid down His perfect life for us. That is serving. He will not be serving in Heaven but ruling as King of Kings because He earned that position here on earth by His actions.

A low level position in heaven will be given to those that RULE on earth for example. There is a big difference between leadership and rulership. The servants are the least in the eternal kingdom. They are not fit for a position of authority in the kingdom. They are unfit vessels to be used by the Father.

 

[BlunderAngel]

Then I suggest you study things like the parable of the talons

After the Parable of the talents, I would suggest one might want to study the Parable Jesus shared as related in Luke 19:11-27.

 

[bottomofsandal]

After the Parable of the talents, I would suggest one might want to study the Parable Jesus shared as related in Luke 19:11-27.

What are you wanting to tell us friend ?

 

[Yahu]

We are left with the assignments of those who "just get in".

What role do they play in The Body of Christ ?

Well even Heaven needs a servant class. Daniel calls that position a position of everlasting contempt. They are earthen or wooden vessels as opposed to vessels of silver and gold that are fit for the Master's use.

The wood and earthen vessels have a use in the kitchen but not at the feast table.

Now remember that even the least in the kingdom will be greater then the greatest man alive on earth. They will have a glorified immortal body as the angels do. They would have about the same status as the lowliest angels IMO and all the angels are of a servant class. We have the capability to exceed the status of all the angels but how many will do so?

Now if you mean what role do they play here on earth in the Body of Christ, well their role is to gain in spiritual growth. They are just babies that need to grow up. You don't slap a baby for being a baby but encourage them to overcome and grow. They require teaching and encouragement, not our condemnation. Babies make messes. You don't beat them for it, you clean them up and love them.

Pity those that mistreat the little ones. Yeshua says it would be better to tie a mill stone (large stone) about your neck and jump into the sea (and kill yourself) then to harm a little one. That implies attacking the spiritually immature is the wrong thing to do and carries severe consequences.

Remember the very first problem to overcome in Rev 2 is a lack of love. They have fallen into religion and attack those they disagree with. They attack the spiritually immature. Those in that situation are only slightly above those that live in the flesh after salvation. They are nearly on the bottom of the maturity scale while Yeshua showed compassion to harlots and the adulteress to encourage them to 'sin no more'.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Well even Heaven needs a servant class. Daniel calls that position a position of everlasting contempt.

How is the Majesty of Almighty God glorified by this ?

This sounds more like man serving man in Heaven.


It sounds more like an oppressive plantation in the old south with second class citizens. It has the feel of a Paula Deen dinner banquet with everyone keenly aware of their proper place ! Is this really how you see Heaven ? It has an aristocratic atmosphere much like a country club.

 

[thesunisout]

How is the Majesty of Almighty God glorified by this ?

This sounds more like man serving man in Heaven.


It sounds more like an oppressive plantation in the old south with second class citizens. It has the feel of a Paula Deen dinner banquet with everyone keenly aware of their proper place ! Is this really how you see Heaven ? It has an aristocratic atmosphere much like a country club.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

The scripture says many things about the sons of God, and not one of them point to a servant class in Heaven. The scripture calls us a holy priesthood:

1 Peter 2:4-5

And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,

you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

We are no longer slaves but sons and heirs:

Galatians 4:6-7

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

Co-heirs with Christ:

Romans 8:17

Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

There are many who expect Heaven to operate like it does here on Earth, and that isn't the case. The children of God have an awesome destiny planned for them, and being in a "servant class" isn't part of that.

 

[Second Phoenix]

People have such strange, Earthly views of Heaven, as though it was just like life here, but without sin.

It's understandable, but a bit sad, that people can't imagine that in Heaven you get to be with God, and so 'doing' anything is meaningless. The distractions on Earth are meant to fill the hole left by a lack of perfect communion with God. Heaven is perfect intimacy with God. There is nothing to do, but grow closer to God. A day at work, on vacation, is absolutely meaningless in comparison to staring at the face of God and receiving the infinite.

 

[candle glow]

For the sake of context I'll post a few teachings from Jesus which I feel relate to the point I'm trying to make...

MT 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

MT 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

MK 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

In heaven, the "servant class" is the BEST class, BECAUSE they serve.

Yahu said:

There is a big difference between leadership and rulership.

I don't think so. If we are made in the image of God, then it is reasonable that God wants us to at least try to be like him. God is definitely the ruler of all things, and yet, who else created all things and keeps all things going? He is the ruler of all things, and yet are we to believe that it is OUR efforts which keeps everything running? God MUST be the servant as well as the ruler.

There is nothing we can ever do to repay him for what he gives to us. But still, he cooks for us, he cleans for us, he puts up with our bad moods. He sets schedules for us and reminds us of what we need to be doing.

He does all of that for us, with no way for us to ever "pay him back" for it. He does it because he wants to; because he loves us. That is the kind of servant God is looking for, whether it's a "lowly" door man or toilet cleaner.

There is no "low level" servant for the servant who works for love, no matter what the job is. "Do all things to the glory of God".

Is there such a thing as "low level glory to God"?

 

[RDKirk]

How is the Majesty of Almighty God glorified by this ?

This sounds more like man serving man in Heaven.


It sounds more like an oppressive plantation in the old south with second class citizens. It has the feel of a Paula Deen dinner banquet with everyone keenly aware of their proper place ! Is this really how you see Heaven ? It has an aristocratic atmosphere much like a country club.

I think the original question was actually meant to be "will man have to serve man in Heaven?"

I don't think so. God did not create man to be servile to man, God created angels to be servile to man. God created man to serve Him alone.

 

[RDKirk]

People have such strange, Earthly views of Heaven, as though it was just like life here, but without sin.

It's understandable, but a bit sad, that people can't imagine that in Heaven you get to be with God, and so 'doing' anything is meaningless. The distractions on Earth are meant to fill the hole left by a lack of perfect communion with God. Heaven is perfect intimacy with God. There is nothing to do, but grow closer to God. A day at work, on vacation, is absolutely meaningless in comparison to staring at the face of God and receiving the infinite.

So why did God give Adam a job?

 

[bottomofsandal]

For the sake of context I'll post a few teachings from Jesus which I feel relate to the point I'm trying to make...



In heaven, the "servant class" is the BEST class, BECAUSE they serve.

Yahu said:


I don't think so. If we are made in the image of God, then it is reasonable that God wants us to at least try to be like him. God is definitely the ruler of all things, and yet, who else created all things and keeps all things going? He is the ruler of all things, and yet are we to believe that it is OUR efforts which keeps everything running? God MUST be the servant as well as the ruler.

There is nothing we can ever do to repay him for what he gives to us. But still, he cooks for us, he cleans for us, he puts up with our bad moods. He sets schedules for us and reminds us of what we need to be doing.

He does all of that for us, with no way for us to ever "pay him back" for it. He does it because he wants to; because he loves us. That is the kind of servant God is looking for, whether it's a "lowly" door man or toilet cleaner.

There is no "low level" servant for the servant who works for love, no matter what the job is. "Do all things to the glory of God".

Is there such a thing as "low level glory to God"?

Nice post !!!



Our King is A Servant King !!!

Ergo, we should expect to continue our service in Heaven for eternity.

Jesus said in Matthew 11 to "learn from ME, I am meek/lowly/humble..."

Jesus is King of Kings, we will all willingly and joyfully bow before Him !!!



We are the children of God for sure, and will be like Him, but this means so much more than levels of authority. Is this the theme of The Bible ? Authority ? Ruling and reigning ? The banner of The Kingdom is L-O-V-E !

 

[bottomofsandal]

For the sake of context I'll post a few teachings from Jesus which I feel relate to the point I'm trying to make...

In heaven, the "servant class" is the BEST class, BECAUSE they serve.

Who made us to differ from one another ?

Who placed us in The Body of Christ as it pleased Him ?



1 Corinthians 12:23-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

 

[Yahu]

How is the Majesty of Almighty God glorified by this ?

IMO it shows the justice of His judgements. We are told that each man will be judged according to his works. What if a man has little to no works which scripture equates with dead faith? What is his reward?

Well he did get in the kingdom with his initial faith. That entrance was a gift based on his faith but he earned no rewards, or lost them with wrong behavior that harmed others.

What should be that individuals position in the kingdom?

What is the position of a homosexual that gets saved but doesn't get past that error?

You see many Christians think these individuals go to hell whereas I see them as the very least in the kingdom. They are denied access even to the capitol city. They are 'outside the walls' with those in major sins of the flesh but did get salvation.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

So some are not blessed and don't enter in through the gates but are left outside the gates. That isn't hell but still in the kingdom of heaven but not within the heavenly city. The kingdom is bigger then the city.

 

[Yahu]

1 Corinthians 12:23-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

So is this on earth within the body or in heaven as the bride?

 

[RDKirk]

IMO it shows the justice of His judgements. We are told that each man will be judged according to his works. What if a man has little to no works which scripture equates with dead faith? What is his reward?

Well he did get in the kingdom with his initial faith. That entrance was a gift based on his faith but he earned no rewards, or lost them with wrong behavior that harmed others.

What should be that individuals position in the kingdom?

What is the position of a homosexual that gets saved but doesn't get past that error?

You see many Christians think these individuals go to hell whereas I see them as the very least in the kingdom. They are denied access even to the capitol city. They are 'outside the walls' with those in major sins of the flesh but did get salvation.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

So some are not blessed and don't enter in through the gates but are left outside the gates. That isn't hell but still in the kingdom of heaven but not within the heavenly city. The kingdom is bigger then the city.

I think you misuderstand the analogy used.

The audience of that passage understood that life existed only for those who had access to the city. Outside the city, there was no protection from the enemy, no water cisterns, no food stores. To be outside the walls of the city --"the outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth"--was to die.

What is the position of a homosexual that gets saved but doesn't get past that error?

Inasmuch as none of us is error-free even after salvation (even Paul noted he had not achieved such a state), we will all be in the same position as that believing homosexual who doesn't get past that particular error.

The gossip, the meddler, the bigot...all will be in the same position as that homosexual.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I think the original question was actually meant to be "will man have to serve man in Heaven?"

I don't think so. God did not create man to be servile to man, God created angels to be servile to man. God created man to serve Him alone.

With all due respect...

If you or I are over 10 cities, then men are subservient to us.

If you or I have earned a place of authority, people will submit to us.



Frankly, I wonder how many folks have absolutley zero interest in a Heaven like this. First, this is just an extension of the world and the world system. So now we must ask: is earth a polluted and contaminated version of Heaven ? Is this the real reason man was created ? Seems to be pretty limited. Is this what The Lord's prayer means by " on earth as it is in Heaven " ?



Bill Gates would get a DEMOTION !

What type of preparation and training programs equip the "rulers" ?

Does the prospect of ruling appeal to the "poor in Spirit" now on earth ?

 

[RDKirk]

With all due respect...

If you or I are over 10 cities, then men are subservient to us.

If you or I have earned a place of authority, people will submit to us.



Frankly, I wonder how many folks have absolutley zero interest in a Heaven like this. First, this is just an extension of the world and the world system. So now we must ask: is earth a polluted and contaminated version of Heaven ? Is this the real reason man was created ? Seems to be pretty limited. Is this what The Lord's prayer means by " on earth as it is in Heaven " ?



Bill Gates would get a DEMOTION !

What type of preparation and training programs equip the "rulers" ?

Does the prospect of ruling appeal to the "poor in Spirit" now on earth ?

Aren't you presuming "cities" of "men?"

Did you notice that I did not use the word "rule?"

I do not think there will be man ruling over man, and I do not belive there will be members of the Body of Christ ruling over members of the Body of Christ. And that's about as far as I go.