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How does that differ from Amill/Postmill?
http://www.christianforums.com/t6813701/
Question time. Jesus returns before or after 1000yrs
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The position I'm putting forward is very firmly within the historical-grammatical hermeneutic.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
I like these words too, always, not just 1000 years, or 7 years, or 3.5 years, but always.
So Jesus comes on the last day, judges the quick and dead, makes new heaven and earth, and there we are forever. Bing, bang, boom.
But here again, there is no indication that the scenes described in Rev 20 are purely literal. This can certainly be a scene which John describes in literal, material terms things revealed to him by God in an apocalyptic vision, which will have their literal spiritual fulfillment in a spiritual sense, not a material sense.
A great white throne may indeed be a literal throne made of some material substance, located in some specific place and time - or (which I believe is more likely) it may be a representation of a spiritual reality, outside of matter and space and time, in which the literal sovereignty and the literal event of judgment by God is represented by the non-literal image of a throne.
Same with the lake of fire.
It is not necessary for one who holds to a historical-literal hermeneutic to believe that there exists, somewhere in space, a literal, material white throne or a literal, material lake of fire.
But it is necessary for one who holds to a historical-literal hermeneutic to believe that God, in his sovereignty and perfect justice will judge the living and the dead, and that Satan and his angels and all who are not saved will be consigned to a spiritual existence separated from God in torment.
These are spiritual truths, not necessarily material realities.
The use of the Greek word translated "meet" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 indicates that the resurrected saints will meet the Lord in the air to honor Him with an escort for the remainder of His descent to earth. Thus, the saints will meet Christ in the air at His Second Coming to give Him the "red carpet treatment" when He comes to earth to renew it and to rule over it for eternity.
But it doesn't say where we will be with Him. It just says we will always be with Him.
Jhn 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
You can't just pick one. They both stand.
When the Emperor comes to visit a city, the local leaders, dignitaries, etc go out to meet him and escort him back into the city. They don't go out to meet him so they can trot off to Rome with him without him ever getting to the city.Will his feet actually touch the ground in the second coming?
1 Thess 1:17 states we will be caught up to meet him in the air, Rev 21 seems to support this idea by describing the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven and the bride of Christ (church) is within, and this is after the old heaven and earth had passed away, also backed up in Matt 24:35.
However there are some who suggest Jesus will physically return to Earth. They support this by quoting Zechariah 14:4 which says, "in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives," and Revelation 11:15 which says, 'The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!'"
Does Zechariah 14 and Rev 11 describe the second coming?
Why can't the place he has prepared for us be the new earth?That doesn't make sense here:
Jhn 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
So, He's preparing the place, He comes back, we all meet Him in the air, and instead of going to the place He prepared, we come back down to earth? Hmm.
That's assigning a rather literal meaning of the judgment passage. Are we all going to turn into literal sheep or goats too?Also, I would assume that in your view, we all escort Christ down, and from there, Matthew 25 takes place - the separating of the sheep and the goats? If so, why does He need to separate them? They all just met Him in the air.
/lobs this into the discussion*snips*
/lobs this into the discussion
There is a common disagreement between millennial and amillennial eschatologists as to the meaning of the word απαντησισ - apantesis in 1 Thess 4:17.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (Greek Study Bible)
ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῷ ἐσόμεθα.
Apantesis can be translated simply as 'to meet' which gives no clues regarding the question of the Rapture, or it can be translated with a more precise indication of 'go out (from the destination) to meet and accompany someone to their destination.'
You know a good understanding of the sanctuary would help clear up some misconceptions about the end times
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
I like these words too, always, not just 1000 years, or 7 years, or 3.5 years, but always.
So Jesus comes on the last day, judges the quick and dead, makes new heaven and earth, and there we are forever. Bing, bang, boom.
Ahhh.....thanks for clarifying that.Don't even put Amill and Postmill in the same sentence.
Postmillers are those "golden-agers" who want to bring in a literal kingdom of GOD here on earth (before Jesus even shows up mind you!)...and that's impossible.
But here again, there is no indication that the scenes described in Rev 20 are purely literal. This can certainly be a scene which John describes in literal, material terms things revealed to him by God in an apocalyptic vision, which will have their literal spiritual fulfillment in a spiritual sense, not a material sense.
A great white throne may indeed be a literal throne made of some material substance, located in some specific place and time - or (which I believe is more likely) it may be a representation of a spiritual reality, outside of matter and space and time, in which the literal sovereignty and the literal event of judgment by God is represented by the non-literal image of a throne.
Same with the lake of fire.
It is not necessary for one who holds to a historical-literal hermeneutic to believe that there exists, somewhere in space, a literal, material white throne or a literal, material lake of fire.
But it is necessary for one who holds to a historical-literal hermeneutic to believe that God, in his sovereignty and perfect justice will judge the living and the dead, and that Satan and his angels and all who are not saved will be consigned to a spiritual existence separated from God in torment.
These are spiritual truths, not necessarily material realities.
The place he is preparing is the redeemed, renewed, healed, creation. The New Heavens and New Earth.That doesn't make sense here:
Jhn 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
So, He's preparing the place, He comes back, we all meet Him in the air, and instead of going to the place He prepared, we come back down to earth? Hmm.
The meeting in the air isn't literal - it's part of the metaphor (or, rather, two mixed metaphors). As of course separating sheep from goats is also a metaphor.Also, I would assume that in your view, we all escort Christ down, and from there, Matthew 25 takes place - the separating of the sheep and the goats? If so, why does He need to separate them? They all just met Him in the air.
As anyone that has visited the Eschatology board would know eheheAll hermeneutics are dangerous.
In the context of the assertion to which it was a response, any set rule about how you will interpret all scripture is liable to miss the appropriate interpretational model for at least some texts.How so?
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