Will God destroy or renew the world?

[Hmm]

In the story of the Flood, God wanted to destroy the world and start again with Noah and two representatives of each land and air based species. Presumably He was happy with the fish or the story is not meant to be taken literally.

So, when we look at where we are today, does God want to destroy the world and start over again with another chosen few, this time in heaven, or does He love this world and want to restore and renew it?

If the first is true, then ultimately most of this world and most things that happen in it don't matter because it's going to be destroyed and so has no eternal value or effect. Jesus' commandment to love others would be meaningless.

If the second is true, then we should do likewise and try to redeem, restore, and renew that part of the world that we can effect, from bring up a child the best we can to simply growing pretty flowers in our garden. And with God’s grace, we may succeed in some of this. Trying to improve the world would be preferable to not engaging with the world through fear it may corrupt us and of course this means that we should be engaged, as far as we can, with the political and social issues of our times e.g. prejudice and homelessness.

If God is going to renew the world then our priority, both personally and as a society, should be to work to improve people’s lives, to heal the sick, to feed the hungry, to visit the prisoner, and to comfort the broken-hearted. We should look after people’s suffering bodies and difficult lives and not just attend to their souls by trying to convert them to our own narrow religious viewpoint, and everyone's views are narrow to some extent.

This is one of the very negative effects of belief in eternal conscious torment (ECT). It makes us think primarily about saving peoples souls from a (fictious) horrible fate, a fate far worse than death, than about how we can minister to their actual needs right now.

If ECT is true then our priority should be to warn everyone about Hell and try to persuade them to repent before it's too late. Their suffering bodies and difficult lives would be secondary to this. Any suffering in this life is meaningless compared to eternity, and so we shouldn't waste our time trying to make their lives better when we should be saving as many souls as possible from this hypothesised eternal torment.

So we have to choose between believing in ECT or valuing a fairer and more moral and happier world and seeing a better world as a success.

We talk about ECT but the the Bible talks about the parable of Good Samaritan who simply had mercy upon others and where we are told to ‘go and do likewise’. Evangelism is represented by Christ’s command to minister to the sick, poor and lonely, not to teach about God as Torturer.

So, going back to the question, what do you think - is God going to destroy or renew this world?

 

[dqhall]

In the story of the Flood, God wanted to destroy the world and start again with Noah and two representatives of each land and air based species. Presumably He was happy with the fish or the story is not meant to be taken literally.

So, when we look at where we are today, does God want to destroy the world and start over again with another chosen few, this time in heaven, or does He love this world and want to restore and renew it?

If the first is true, then ultimately most of this world and most things that happen in it don't matter because it's going to be destroyed and so has no eternal value or effect. Jesus' commandment to love others would be meaningless.

If the second is true, then we should do likewise and try to redeem, restore, and renew that part of the world that we can effect, from bring up a child the best we can to simply growing pretty flowers in our garden. And with God’s grace, we may succeed in some of this. Trying to improve the world would be preferable to not engaging with the world through fear it may corrupt us and of course this means that we should be engaged, as far as we can, with the political and social issues of our times e.g. prejudice and homelessness.

If God is going to renew the world then our priority, both personally and as a society, should be to work to improve people’s lives, to heal the sick, to feed the hungry, to visit the prisoner, and to comfort the broken-hearted. We should look after people’s suffering bodies and difficult lives and not just attend to their souls by trying to convert them to our own narrow religious viewpoint, and everyone's views are narrow to some extent.

This is one of the very negative effects of belief in eternal conscious torment (ECT). It makes us think primarily about saving peoples souls from a (fictious) horrible fate, a fate far worse than death, than about how we can minister to their actual needs right now.

If ECT is true then our priority should be to warn everyone about Hell and try to persuade them to repent before it's too late. Their suffering bodies and difficult lives would be secondary to this. Any suffering in this life is meaningless compared to eternity, and so we shouldn't waste our time trying to make their lives better when we should be saving as many souls as possible from this hypothesised eternal torment.

So we have to choose between believing in ECT or valuing a fairer and more moral and happier world and seeing a better world as a success.

We talk about ECT but the the Bible talks about the parable of Good Samaritan who simply had mercy upon others and where we are told to ‘go and do likewise’. Evangelism is represented by Christ’s command to minister to the sick, poor and lonely, not to teach about God as Torturer.

So, going back to the question, what do you think - is God going to destroy or renew this world?

Mark 13:31
“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”

Jesus told his disciples he was going to prepare a place for them.
John 14:3
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

 

[bling]

When we talk about “this world” we are usually referring to the physical living people on earth and not a rock. People are or can be eternal, but this rock will be used up and go away.

Our physically caring for others, as Christ cared for others, allows others to listen to Jesus living in and through us to help them spiritually accept God’s charity.

Heaven is a much better place then this world could ever be and our spiritual new bodies are much better and spiritual.

 

[Hmm]

Mark 13:31
“Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”

Just out of interest, if you believe in heaven, how do you reconcile that with this verse?

 

[Hmm]

Our physically caring for others, as Christ cared for others, allows others to listen to Jesus living in and through us to help them spiritually accept God’s charity.

But isn't that an extrapolation? Jesus simply commanded us to feed the hungry. He didn't say to do that because that "allows others to listen to Jesus living in and through us to help them spiritually accept God’s charity." I accept that my interpretation is also an extrapolation. He told us just to do it; we don't really know why.other than that it's good in and of itself.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Just out of interest, if you believe in heaven, how do you reconcile that with this verse?

The visible universe is referred to as "the heavens".
Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and
all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from
the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Isaiah 24:1
Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

Revelation 21:1
King James Version

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter 3:10-13
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness

 

[bling]

But isn't that an extrapolation? Jesus simply commanded us to feed the hungry. He didn't say to do that because that "allows others to listen to Jesus living in and through us to help them spiritually accept God’s charity." I accept that my interpretation is also an extrapolation. He told us just to do it; we don't really know why.other than that it's good in and of itself.

We have lots of examples of Christ: feeding, healing and driving out demons, along with preaching about the Kingdom.

Christ also talks about Spiritual food being more important than physical food.

 

[Hmm]

Christ also talks about Spiritual food being more important than physical food.

I'm not being argumentative but where does He say this? It would seem an odd thing to say.

 

[Davy]

In the story of the Flood, God wanted to destroy the world and start again with Noah and two representatives of each land and air based species. Presumably He was happy with the fish or the story is not meant to be taken literally.

So, when we look at where we are today, does God want to destroy the world and start over again with another chosen few, this time in heaven, or does He love this world and want to restore and renew it?
....

I hate to say it, but IF... you study ALL of The Bible, you'll discover that God established this earth forever. And there have been 2 previous world-wide destruction of the surface of this earth by waters of a flood, with the next destruction being by fire instead. This was revealed by Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3, and those destructions are the pattern...

1. "the world that then was" (2 Peter 3:6) = the world previous to Adam, the world when Satan was "perfect in his ways" with following God, and then rebelled in coveting God's throne.

2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now" (2 Peter 3:7) = this present world earth age we are now in. It is preserved to be destroyed by fire, cleansing man's works off the 'surface'... of the earth, just like what the previous floods did.

3. "new heavens and a new earth" (2 Peter 3:13) = God's future Kingdom after the future "lake of fire" destruction of Revelation 20.


And by just reading... the Zechariah 14 chapter, which is about Christ's future return BACK to this earth, specifically to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from (Acts 1), that ought to be plenty enough to quiet any notions that He is going to literally demolish the whole earth and turn it into some asteroid belt.

 

[bling]

I'm not being argumentative but where does He say this? It would seem an odd thing to say.

John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Matt 6: 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?

John 4: 34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

 

[Hmm]

I hate to say it, but IF... you study ALL of The Bible, you'll discover that God established this earth forever.

Wow, I've met someone who has studied ALL of The Bible, with a capital T as well! What an honour.

 

[Davy]

Wow, I've met someone who has studied ALL of The Bible, with a capital T as well! What an honour.

Study in all of God's written Word shouldn't offend any true Christian. If it does, then that's a show of a greater problem for that Christian brother/sister.

My usual answer for lazy Bible students is this, in the form of questions...

1. "How many years of public education do you have?"

2. "Do you have a technical skill that required applying your mind through study? If so, how did you acquire that skill, and how long did it take?"

3. "Do you have a university degree? How long did it take to get that degree, and how many years before that did you have to study to get to that point?"


Think of it, most folks in the U.S. have at least 8-12 years of education, and some over 18 years or more, yet many are still Biblically illiterate in study of all of God's written Word.

Shouldn't that make a believer on The Father and His Son feel guilty for knowing more about the 'world' than what God's written Word actually says?

 

[Hmm]

1. "How many years of public education do you have?"

What do you mean by "public"? I'm from the UK where a public school means the opposite to what you would think: it means a private school but of course you would already know that.

2. "Do you have a technical skill that required applying your mind through study? If so, how did you acquire that skill, and how long did it take?"

I can count...1, 2, 3, 4, 5... I could go on if you like? Does that count?

3. "Do you have a university degree? How long did it take to get that degree, and how many years before that did you have to study to get to that point?"

I have a BSc*

* Bronze Swimming Certificate.

 

[dqhall]

Just out of interest, if you believe in heaven, how do you reconcile that with this verse?

Heaven has more than one meaning. The heavens above and the earth below. God made heaven and earth.

Genesis 1:14-18
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.”

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the story of the Flood, God wanted to destroy the world and start again with Noah and two representatives of each land and air based species. Presumably He was happy with the fish or the story is not meant to be taken literally.

So, when we look at where we are today, does God want to destroy the world and start over again with another chosen few, this time in heaven, or does He love this world and want to restore and renew it?

If the first is true, then ultimately most of this world and most things that happen in it don't matter because it's going to be destroyed and so has no eternal value or effect. Jesus' commandment to love others would be meaningless.

If the second is true, then we should do likewise and try to redeem, restore, and renew that part of the world that we can effect, from bring up a child the best we can to simply growing pretty flowers in our garden. And with God’s grace, we may succeed in some of this. Trying to improve the world would be preferable to not engaging with the world through fear it may corrupt us and of course this means that we should be engaged, as far as we can, with the political and social issues of our times e.g. prejudice and homelessness.

If God is going to renew the world then our priority, both personally and as a society, should be to work to improve people’s lives, to heal the sick, to feed the hungry, to visit the prisoner, and to comfort the broken-hearted. We should look after people’s suffering bodies and difficult lives and not just attend to their souls by trying to convert them to our own narrow religious viewpoint, and everyone's views are narrow to some extent.

This is one of the very negative effects of belief in eternal conscious torment (ECT). It makes us think primarily about saving peoples souls from a (fictious) horrible fate, a fate far worse than death, than about how we can minister to their actual needs right now.

If ECT is true then our priority should be to warn everyone about Hell and try to persuade them to repent before it's too late. Their suffering bodies and difficult lives would be secondary to this. Any suffering in this life is meaningless compared to eternity, and so we shouldn't waste our time trying to make their lives better when we should be saving as many souls as possible from this hypothesised eternal torment.

So we have to choose between believing in ECT or valuing a fairer and more moral and happier world and seeing a better world as a success.

We talk about ECT but the the Bible talks about the parable of Good Samaritan who simply had mercy upon others and where we are told to ‘go and do likewise’. Evangelism is represented by Christ’s command to minister to the sick, poor and lonely, not to teach about God as Torturer.

So, going back to the question, what do you think - is God going to destroy or renew this world?

The answer is yes, it's both.

It's a simple matter of fact that God is going to keep His creation through Judgment and redeem it. Every time we confess the future resurrection of the body this is what we are saying.

Destruction is coming to this present, evil age. Judgment shall come, and the fire of that judgment will consume the heavens and the earth, and burn everything up.

So the matter under our feet, that we walk on, is that going to be anhillated? No. But it seems that what Scripture points to is, in the same way that our bodies die and will be resurrected, that's what is going to happen with creation in some sense.

Creation as it is, will not continue; but creation redeemed and brought through Judgment and to the other side means creation will continue, just not as it presently is.

The Prophets point us forward to a day when the lion eats straw like an ox. In the Age to Come we are told people and animals, the little child will have no fear of the viper's den, animals that today compete and kill one another will exist in peace.

Insofar as the present reality of sin and death and its subjugation of all creation is in effect, it is destined for fire. But fire not only destroys, fire also purifies.

This is why our Eastern Christian brothers and sisters have understood that when the Scripture says that "Our God is a consuming fire" it is both terrifying and hopeful. The fire of God that destroys is the same fire of God that purifies. The fire of judgment and the fire of God's love are the same flame.

So in final conflagration the created order is not annihilated, but is instead dissolved and restored. Dying and rising, as it were. If God intended to annihilate His creation and start over, He would have said so. But He doesn't, instead in the Apocalypse when we read of the new heavens and the new earth, we read that God says, Ἰδού, καινὰ πάντα ποιῶ, "Look! I make everything new!" (Revelation 21:5) He does not say He makes new things, but that He makes all things--everything--new. What was old, is now new.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[com7fy8]

does God want to destroy the world and start over again with another chosen few, this time in heaven, or does He love this world and want to restore and renew it?

"because the creation itself also will delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Romans 8:21)

Our "glorious liberty" will include how we will be resurrected. So, therefore, I understand that God will resurrect the entire earth, from its present corruptible state into our glorious state.

 

[Hmm]

The answer is yes, it's both.

It's a simple matter of fact that God is going to keep His creation through Judgment and redeem it. Every time we confess the future resurrection of the body this is what we are saying.

Destruction is coming to this present, evil age. Judgment shall come, and the fire of that judgment will consume the heavens and the earth, and burn everything up.

So the matter under our feet, that we walk on, is that going to be anhillated? No. But it seems that what Scripture points to is, in the same way that our bodies die and will be resurrected, that's what is going to happen with creation in some sense.

Creation as it is, will not continue; but creation redeemed and brought through Judgment and to the other side means creation will continue, just not as it presently is.

The Prophets point us forward to a day when the lion eats straw like an ox. In the Age to Come we are told people and animals, the little child will have no fear of the viper's den, animals that today compete and kill one another will exist in peace.

Insofar as the present reality of sin and death and its subjugation of all creation is in effect, it is destined for fire. But fire not only destroys, fire also purifies.

This is why our Eastern Christian brothers and sisters have understood that when the Scripture says that "Our God is a consuming fire" it is both terrifying and hopeful. The fire of God that destroys is the same fire of God that purifies. The fire of judgment and the fire of God's love are the same flame.

So in final conflagration the created order is not annihilated, but is instead dissolved and restored. Dying and rising, as it were. If God intended to annihilate His creation and start over, He would have said so. But He doesn't, instead in the Apocalypse when we read of the new heavens and the new earth, we read that God says, Ἰδού, καινὰ πάντα ποιῶ, "Look! I make everything new!" (Revelation 21:5) He does not say He makes new things, but that He makes all things--everything--new. What was old, is now new.

-CryptoLutheran

That's really informative, thanks. This really is God News.

Making everything new suggests that animals and even our favourite tree or hill will also be included. I can't see any other meaning to it than that. The only thing that doesn't make it is sin. Sinners also, but not because they are destroyed or permanently locked out but because they are transformed into the image of Christ. I'm not saying you necessarily agree with this last bit!

 

[Hmm]

"because the creation itself also will delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Romans 5:5)

Our "glorious liberty" will include how we will be resurrected. So, therefore, I understand that God will resurrect the entire earth, from its present corruptible state into our glorious state.

Yes, I like the verse about the whole of creation groaning together as it suffers labour pains waiting for this renewal.

 

[JulieB67]

I'm not being argumentative but where does He say this? It would seem an odd thing to say.

Spiritual food is always more important.

The famine for the end times is for hearing the words of the Lord.


Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"

And it's so true today. You would be very hard pressed to find churches today that teach the word of God, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Instead you get one or two verses surrounded by a sermon that has nothing to do with learning Gods' word. His letter to us, OT and NT.

One could spend a lifetime in certain churches and still have only been fed milk.

Many (not all) Christians have not even read their own bibles in their entirety. They like being fed milk and go about their business, thinking they have achieved something. I was one of those Christians until about 20 years ago when I first actually read the bible and started to study it. Many truths are there that I was not taught in church. And many false doctrines that are not in the bible, those I were taught. We have to study to show ourselves approved.

As for the OP,

As long as the earth remaineth, we will have cold, hot, seedtime and harvest. So that tells me that even in this present age the earth will be fine until God himself renews it.

But it will be renewed to it's former glory. Which was once paradise. That's why we see certain African animals fossilized in the US and so on. It was once a perfect climate, etc. God created it that way, he created it to be inhabited. He did not create it tohuw (without form and void) as he states in Isaiah 45.

As for ECT, I don't believe it. I believe Christ's teachings in Matthew 10:28 and Revelation 20:14.