Wiki Poll: Opening Statement

[talitha]

What do you want for an opening statement on the Wiki?

1. Original Version by Talitha:

As conservative Christians we believe that the Truth exists completely outside of our understanding of it, and that God, from Whom procedes all Truth, has chosen to reveal Truth to mankind in His Word, aka the Bible, and to embody it first in His only begotten Son, Jesus, and then progressively in the Church, which is comprised of all who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, submitting their lives to Him.

​

2. Version Two by Simon_Templar:

Conservative Christianity is defined by its allegiance to the Holy Scriptures and the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church on issues of theology and morality. Central to this worldview is the belief that Truth exists objectively and independently of our perception. Truth is unchanging and absolute.
God is Truth. He has revealed His Truth in the person of His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, in the Holy Bible, His written word, and in the Holy Church, which includes all who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, submitting their lives to Him in faith.
​

3. Version two with the following phrase omitted:

and the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church
​

4. A complete rewrite by someone other than Tal or Simon

Please vote and post your comments about the inclusion of a "tradition" clause on the Wiki.

If a majority of people choose Simon's version, I will most likely bow out of the debate and limit my opinion-giving on this forum to things that go along with a traditionalist viewpoint.

blessings
tal

 

[talitha]

Please note that the reason I'm making this poll is to find out what the majority opinion is; I think it would be wrong of me to just revert the Wiki without knowing.

 

[catofhope]

I'll ask the question...

What does "the traditional beliefs and teachings of the Christian Church" refer too?

Hard to vote unless we are all on the same page as to what it means.

I think I may not what it refers to but do not want to assume.

 

[Lisa0315]

I don't understand the difference between 1 and 2. Can someone explain?

Lisa

 

[talitha]

Lisa, for me the main difference is that the version I wrote does not emphasize tradition - partially because we in this forum come from different traditions, so I would rather just center around the Bible and Jesus and His Body. I have thought about adding something about "through personal sanctification" to clarify that I'm not talking about making church traditions better, but rather making God's people more Godly.

blessings
tal

 

[Lisa0315]

hmm...I am still very undecided. I like Simon's because of the way he talks about Absolute Truth. I like Talitha's because the emphasis is on Jesus and submitting to him.

I think I would like a blend of the two to be honest.

Lisa

 

[Angel4Truth]

On the record as having voted for statement #2 (since somehow one of my votes on another poll went missing)

 

[Lisa0315]

On the record as having voted for statement #2 (since somehow one of my votes on another poll went missing)

Yep, saw it with my own eyes. It might be a good idea for everyone to post after they vote. There is definitely a bug. We need to know if it happens again.

Lisa

 

[talitha]

What do you think of mine with the "unchanging and absolute" part added into it?

As conservative Christians we believe that the Truth - which is by its nature unchanging and absolute - exists completely outside of our understanding of it, and that God, from Whom procedes all Truth, has chosen to reveal Truth to mankind in His Word, aka the Bible, and to embody it first in His only begotten Son, Jesus, and then progressively in the Church, which is comprised of all who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, submitting their lives to Him.
​

 

[Lisa0315]

What do you think of mine with the "unchanging and absolute" part added into it?​

As conservative Christians we believe that the Truth - which is by its nature unchanging and absolute - exists completely outside of our understanding of it, and that God, from Whom procedes all Truth, has chosen to reveal Truth to mankind in His Word, aka the Bible, and to embody it first in His only begotten Son, Jesus, and then progressively in the Church, which is comprised of all who call upon the Name of the Lord Jesus, submitting their lives to Him.​

Add In "In Faith" at the very end and I think it is a winner!

Lisa

 

[Angel4Truth]

Talitha i think thats an excellent addition and would have voted yes for it if it were there when i voted

 

[talitha]

bless you, Angel!

I am thinking that the Traditionalists are just ignoring this poll and waiting for us to change the Wiki so that they can revert it.

 

[Lisa0315]

bless you, Angel!

I am thinking that the Traditionalists are just ignoring this poll and waiting for us to change the Wiki so that they can revert it.

Now, now. let's not even jest like that. You may want to PM some members from both sides to get this poll going. We are kind of a small group right now, and everyone is coming from other places.

I will see if I can post this poll in places that I am already linked to. I have to be careful because more than 4 times is considered spamming now.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

I posted it in three Conservative threads. That should keep me from getting reported as a spammer.

Lisa

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Tal, if you're able to alter your version the way you and Lisa discussed, yours is definitely the one I want.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

http://www.christianforums.com/t5741487-debate-sub-forum.html

To vote yes or no for a debate sub-forum

 

[~*Lady Trekki*~]

Tal, if you're able to alter your version the way you and Lisa discussed, yours is definitely the one I want.

Me too!

 

[Simon_Templar]

The reason I added the phrase regarding the traditional beliefs of the church was specifically to address the interpetation of scripture on controversial topics.

I come from a forum that his split between conservatives and liberals. In that forum it was a matter of routine for liberals to argue that their position was completely in line with scripture.
given the new format of CF, unless you specifically define what it means to adhere to scripture, you might as well not even say it because anyone who claims to do so will be allowed their view, even if it is absolutely opposite of what we believe scripture says.
This was a daily occurance in the forum I was in, it happened in almost every thread.

In otherwords, to say "we believe the bible" means nothing because those who support abortion and homosexuality say exactly the same thing. If you don't define what you believe the scripture says, you might as well not even bother with this forum.
So you either have the option of specifically defining each and every issue which might arise, or you have to go with a more broad statement such as linking our interpetation of scripture to the traditional teachings of the church.

The basic intent of the phrase was that scripture be defined to mean what the Church as a whole has always understood it to mean.

The reason this has become an issue is because of the women's ordination thread.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

The reason I added the phrase regarding the traditional beliefs of the church was specifically to address the interpetation of scripture on controversial topics....

*snipped*

I really, really hope you're not offended, bro. What you wrote was so wonderful. But certain people felt it gave them free license to attack others, so obviously we have to turn this into a word-perfect nanny state

What you wrote was lovely. Just subsequent events show we need it to be less open to being abused in translation.

 

[talitha]

Simon, I feel that this 'conservative' forum needs to be big enough at least for the few of us who are here now. I conceded one point to colabomb already, and made some changes that I didn't necessarily think were best, because I wanted this to be accomodating to the others and not just my own ideas.

Think of it as the conservative side of the WWMC. I'm absolutely positive that the people in that forum do not agree on everything - but they are warm and accepting of people when they come in.

Under the "new CF" rules, we are probably going to be seeing an influx of people into this forum who feel that they can't fellowship in their respective congregational fora, because they are too conservative. That does not make them strict traditionalists in ther various denominations - that just makes them people who stick closer to the Bible than the most vocal people at CF do.

You are right - this became an issue because of the women's ordination thread. I don't know you well enough to know how mischievous you might be, but I know some people who would have started that thread just to see what would happen - to see how quickly people would go to their respective corners.

What I noticed was that we had a very civil conversation going on there until a couple of people showed up who might be from the fundamentalist group, I don't know, I've never been in there. They seemed to want to stir up trouble. I see nothing wrong with debate, and I'm not afraid of people who disagree, but I didn't like the way these people acted, and I am really hoping that in the future that sort of thing will be nipped in the bud - not allowed to go on for twenty pages. I feel certain that if you were modding, you would've put a stop to it, even though they were sort of on your side.

Anyhoo, I see what you are trying to say, but I don't see a resolution yet.....

blessings
tal