Wifely Submission

belladonic-haze · Aug 30, 2006

I do understand that women and men have a certain way of life. If both agree and both respect each other....I understand it.

What scares me is that 3.6% (at this moment) voted: "Yes, without question regardless of what the husband commands."

Been there, done that....and ended up being abused and raped. Whatever I did or tried, I got pulled back in the misogynist life. I escaped. Not because I was strong, but because he had no use for me and started to search for another prey. I felt so horrible without him I almost took my own life. The worst part of it all is that I thought I loved him. He was very handsome, a 'good' Christian and could be very sweet. But he did things that were immoral and showed me over and over again that I was not worth being respected. I totally submitted to his whims. I did it all, to awful to even mention here.....because he made sure that I was convinced that I was his 'pet' because he was the man, he was my leader.

It took me 20 years to get rid of my low self esteem....and the abuse will hunt me the rest of my life.

I never told this to anyone...not even my therapist....It feels good to let it finally out.

That is why these 3.6% scare me...because somewhere out there, there are 3.6% wives/girl-friends of the CF members that have to endure the same abuse.

Loundry · Aug 30, 2006

rowena said:
I'll be one of the first people admit there are some goofy things in the Bible, which is why it can't be taken as literal and must be interpreted in light of the culture it was written in/for as well as who was doing the writing.

What do you think of the pro-gay Christians who interpret the Bible as allowing homosexuality?

kopilo · Aug 30, 2006

They're just as kooky as those who interperate that homosexuality is a sin.

Texas Lynn · Aug 30, 2006

kopilo said:
They're just as kooky as those who interperate that homosexuality is a sin.

Ain't we a pair?

christalee4 · Aug 30, 2006

shadowmage36 said:
Christalee: I don't know an incredible amount, but from what my friend has told me, it boils down to something like this: Man wants it, he has to ask. She wants it, man must give. No options. At all. What the woman wants, she gets.

Then there's a whole list of other things that are too explicit to talk about here. I'll have to ask him about it again.

I guess you are kind of correct. If we are talking about interaction of sexality, and perhaps favors being asked in terms of household and money.

Perhaps, sometimes the reason for that kind of thinking is that the woman the physically weaker of the sex, and because she makes the babies, she deserves a higher privilege of protection and sanctity. That's why a lot of fundies like to adhere to the system of husband is the head, who in turn protects the wife, who in turn respects the husband (a lot of people put in love, but that also is misinterpreted), who in turn loves and protects the children and pets, and through only the husband, God can dispense his wisdom and knowledge. Women and children can only absorb the knowledge and wisdom through the father and husband, who dispenses it through home-church. There is supposed to be no wavering from this rigid alignment, as it is allegedly Bibically mandated. Even if wives or children have wisdom, talents and opinions that may indeed matter or truly make a difference in an opinion to be made of an important family situation, the most fundamentalist of religious families insist that the father/husband MUST make the decision, regardless.

This rigid organization, IMO, allows for abuse of behavior, due to the lack of discussion and acceptance of other opinions in a family unit. It's almost like being in the military.

rowena · Aug 30, 2006

Loundry said:
What do you think of the pro-gay Christians who interpret the Bible as allowing homosexuality?

Considering that I don't consider homosexuality a sin, I would probely think something along the line of good for them!

WhoeverLovesGod01 · Aug 31, 2006

Thanks for posting belladonic-haze...

I'm just a young man but i've seen a lot of things...

...learning your place in God's family should raise you up, not bring you down.

Robinsegg · Aug 31, 2006

KatAutumn said:
In the Bible, it states that wives are to submit to their husbands in all matters. It does not specify that wives are only to submit to Christian husbands or to submit only when their husbands expect them to do something they are willing to do.

Submission has less to do with authority than it does with accountability. You see, God has placed the husband in a position of accountability before Him for everything that happens within the household. The husband is responsible for all that is taught to the children, all the spiritual condition of the family, taking care of (physically, financially and emotionally) his family to the best of his ability).
In our home, hubby and I make descisions together. There are some tasks/descisions that he delegates to me (such as homeschooling our children). My submission in those areas is in keeping him informed and listening to any concerns he has (like about curriculum choice). On the other hand, there are times we disagree. In that case, we discuss the issue and try to form a resolution. If (and this hasn't happened, yet) we can't come to a resolution, hubby has the final say, because he's ultimately accountable for what happens.

I feel like an equal partner in our marriage. Oh, and Scripture is clear that all Christians are to submit to one another in "brotherly love", and doesn't exclude spouses in that statement. The thing about respect/love is more on how the other party has a tendency to see things: Men tend to see unpleasantness as disrespect, whereas women tend to see unpleasantness as unlove. To avoid those misconceptions, women are to treat their husbands with respect and men to treat their wives with love.

Rachel

LouTheWicked · Aug 31, 2006

I'm not submitting to any man.

Texas Lynn · Aug 31, 2006

LouTheWicked said:
I'm not submitting to any man.

Don't let anyone convince you to do otherwise.

All of us who love another "defer" to the other, but "submitting" is something we monotheists do for God and no other ("Islam" comes from the word for "submission", BTW). However, no person has dominion over another in this day and age and it would be wrong to impose same. Any attempt to say such is God-ordained is just as evil as saying God ordains slavery. Don't buy it.

Argent · Aug 31, 2006

Barefoot, pregnant and sitting in the back row, I tell you! Barefoot, pregnant and in the back row!!!

Argent · Aug 31, 2006

Loundry said:
What do you think of the pro-gay Christians who interpret the Bible as allowing homosexuality?

They are in error.

christalee4 · Aug 31, 2006

Robinsegg said:
Submission has less to do with authority than it does with accountability. You see, God has placed the husband in a position of accountability before Him for everything that happens within the household.

I disagree. God holds each and everyone of us accountable and responsible, equally. Just because the wife is a female doesn't make her any less weaker in her responsibility to her children, to her husband, and to the management and survival of their family unit. Emotionally, physically, and yes, financially.

I feel like an equal partner in our marriage.

Yes, it does make it seem better if one feels equal. But if one partner is always the decider, and the other partner is always the submitter, it's not equal at all. It's a hierarchy. If it works for you, great. But, it's not an equal situation.

The thing about respect/love is more on how the other party has a tendency to see things: Men tend to see unpleasantness as disrespect, whereas women tend to see unpleasantness as unlove. To avoid those misconceptions, women are to treat their husbands with respect and men to treat their wives with love.

In ascribing certain feelings and behaviors in that "all men" perceive one way, and "all women" perceive another way is completely oversimplifying human relationships down to a somewhat primitive scenario. For example, the perception that since men have higher upper body strength than women, men must also be more emotionally and mentally stronger than women. That men don't need love, they just need to be respected. And that if men need love and tenderness, well then, they are just weak babies. That women don't need respect, they just need to be told I love you. That only men are capable of managing finances, making important decisions, and women don't have the fortitude for the same, because they'd rather make casseroles. Me Tarzan, you Jane.

The range of human emotion, intelligence and talent is so much more complex, even though traditionally society has tried to force gender roles as being "normal", when in fact, they may not be normal for everybody.

When World War Two erupted, many men went to war, and women went to work in the factories. Did it make them any less women? Of course not. Flexibility, and the best use of his or her talents to do the best job, without rigid assignment of gender roles surely creates the happier marriage, rather than suppressing God-given intelligence in the name of submission.

Robinsegg · Aug 31, 2006

christalee4 said:
I disagree. God holds each and everyone of us accountable and responsible, equally. Just because the wife is a female doesn't make her any less weaker in her responsibility to her children, to her husband, and to the management and survival of their family unit. Emotionally, physically, and yes, financially.

That's an interesting position, but I've never seen it backed up with Scripture.

christalee4 said:
Yes, it does make it seem better if one feels equal. But if one partner is always the decider, and the other partner is always the submitter, it's not equal at all. It's a hierarchy. If it works for you, great. But, it's not an equal situation.

I believe I said that we've never had an issue we haven't been able to resolve through discussion. Therefore, I've never had to submit "just because he's the husband". He loves and respects me enough to listen to me and want me to be happy with the descision, too.

christalee4 said:
In ascribing certain feelings and behaviors in that "all men" perceive one way, and "all women" perceive another way is completely oversimplifying human relationships down to a somewhat primitive scenario. For example, the perception that since men have higher upper body strength than women, men must also be more emotionally and mentally stronger than women. That men don't need love, they just need to be respected. And that if men need love and tenderness, well then, they are just weak babies. That women don't need respect, they just need to be told I love you. That only men are capable of managing finances, making important decisions, and women don't have the fortitude for the same, because they'd rather make casseroles. Me Tarzan, you Jane.

I didn't say any of that. I said that when something unpleasant happens, men tend to view that as disrespect and women tend to view it as unlove. I didn't say that men don't need to be loved or that women don't need to be respected. I was simply answering the place that many see as saying so. Wives are to show their husbands respect to help him not feel disrespected when something unpleasant comes around, the same for husbands showing their wives love.

christalee4 said:
When World War Two erupted, many men went to war, and women went to work in the factories. Did it make them any less women? Of course not. Flexibility, and the best use of his or her talents to do the best job, without rigid assignment of gender roles surely creates the happier marriage, rather than suppressing God-given intelligence in the name of submission.

I don't dispute that. I wasn't speaking of steotypical gender roles, here, but how God created marriage to work. There's no reason that a wife can't work outside the home, help her husband make descisions, run the part of their marriage he asks her to, work around the house, work on cars, or do any other "job" she wants. Just read Prov. 31. But, in marriage, God set the relationship up a certain way. As a Christian with a Christian husband, I know that (if it ever comes down to it, and it hasn't in 8 years) I will allow my husband to make the final descision. As it is, I simply keep him informed and discuss descisions together.

Rachel

Futuwwa · Aug 31, 2006

I believe in the authority of the husband, but also in the (legal as well as morally acceptable) right of the wife to divorce him if he uses his authority in a tyrannical rather than mutualistic way. If the wife feels like she is at a loss due to the use of the authority of the husband, he isn't being a good husband. The purpose of his authority is to provide guidance and unity of action, not promote his self-interest. That's what I think.

Does this make me an evil misogynist?

TheMissus · Aug 31, 2006

I wonder about the men who insist that they want to marry a "submissive" wife. Why? I'm betting that most of them simply want a "yes man" that won't challenge them, but will agree with every decision (even if it's the wrong one.) Perhaps they can't handle a real woman, so they want a meek little mouse instead.

Futuwwa · Aug 31, 2006

My preference in this matter would be one who has opinions of her own, freely discussing things with me, to the point of criticizing me when she feels like it. Who won't hold back her feelings. But who will submit to me in the end, after being convinced of my leadership being for the best. That'd be the best of both worlds.

Texas Lynn · Aug 31, 2006

Argent said:
They are in error.

Wrong again.

kopilo · Aug 31, 2006

Texas Lynn said:
Ain't we a pair?

Indeed

sidhe · Sep 1, 2006

I voted other, as I think the partners in a relationship should be equally submissive to each other, rather than one being dominant over the other.

In most cases.

If you're doing the BDSM thing, it's whatever floats your boat.

Wifely Submission

Should a Christian wife obey and submit to her husband at all times?

Yes, without question regardless of what the husband commands.

Only if the husband is a Christian or if he isn't asking for something immoral.

Submission/obedience is archaic and overrated.

Other/Not sure

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