Why?

[mcflooble]

For a long time I've had this question on my mind. I'm fascinated by it, and I joined this site just to ask:

Why do you believe in God?

 

[Bible2]

mcflooble:
Why do you believe in God?

People have no excuse for not believing in God: "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world" (Psalms 19:1-4).

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Psalms 14:1).

"Know ye that YHWH he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves" (Psalms 100:3).

 

[mcflooble]

I mean why do you personally believe in God (rather than why should anyone, if that's what you were getting at). Do you believe in God because there is no excuse not to, or did you already believe in God and then find that there is no excuse not to? If it's the former, then no problem, that's what I was wondering, but just making sure. If it's the latter, then that's not what I mean and sorry for not making my original post clear (I'm not sure if I did a good enough job with this post either...).

And, just out of curiosity and a bit off-topic, what's the YHWH mean?

 

[Celticflower]

Why do I believe in God? Because personally I cannot not believe. It is kinda like a line from a song - "And I know that you're out there because I long for you". Also things have happened in my life that there is no other explaination for.

(note - I will never insist that anyone believe as I do, but I will share what I believe and let them decide)

 

[ephraimanesti]

For a long time I've had this question on my mind. I'm fascinated by it, and I joined this site just to ask:

Why do you believe in God?

MY FRIEND,

i believe in God primarily because He has demonstrated, CONCRETELY, CONSISTENTLY, and CONTINUOUSLY, that He believes in me.

In short, God's eternal Love is irrepressible and irrestible!

ABBA'S BRAT,
ephraim

 

[Van]

Hi Mcflooble, I was raised in a Christian home, so from an early age I accepted that God existed because the adults, who I thought knew more than me, all believed in God. Later, when I was about 12 years old, I had a "coming of age" moment where I realized I was not saved because I was unwilling to give my life as opposed to protect my life as best I could. In exploring why I did not "really believe" with "all my heart" I briefly considered whether God even existed or not, but my analysis confirmed my belief that there was ample evidence for God and Jesus, it was my willingness to really trust in Jesus that was the issue. When I was about 15, I met a person who demonstrated by his character that he was very different from me, he considered others more important than himself. So my desire to be "Christ-like" overwhelmed my fear of failure to measure up to the mark, and I committed myself to Christ.

May God Bless

 

[drich0150]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7413364/

Post #5

 

[Supreme]

I have personally experienced Him in my life.

 

[bsd31]

I have personally experienced Him in my life.

This is the same for me. He's a very real and concrete part of my life. He's interjected Himself on my behalf on countless occasions both in answering prayers and just stepping in and keeping me safe (spiritually and physically)

I doubt that will satisfy your need to know "why", but that's the truth.

 

[ebia]

For a long time I've had this question on my mind. I'm fascinated by it, and I joined this site just to ask:

Why do you believe in God?

Because I find I can't not.

And, just out of curiosity and a bit off-topic, what's the YHWH mean?

YHWH is the personal name of the God of the Judeo/Christian scriptures. Or, at least, as close as we get to a personal name. It roughly translates as "I am who I am" or "I shall be what I shall be" or simply "I am". The name given by God when Moses asks who he is.

 

[mcflooble]

Thanks so much for all the responses!

It's just something I'm really interested in, because I can't believe in Him and I wonder how people exposed to the arguments against Him can.

All those responses that say you believe in Him because you can't not believe in Him, I see nothing wrong with that, because you can't choose what you believe.

Personal experience is a fine answer, because I'm just asking why you believe, and if that's why, then, well, you answered the question It's not satisfactory for helping prove God's existence, but that's not what I was asking, so all good.

Any more responses would also be greatly appreciated (even if they're the same reasons), and again thanks to everyone who has already responded!

 

[seashale76]

How does one explain to someone else about experiencing the presence of God? I walked into an Orthodox Church with my husband and I just knew. All I knew was that it wasn't simply my own emotions wreaking havoc with me- some things come from outside of ourselves- and people who know themselves well can discern this difference. (I was raised Pentecostal and I am rather immune to situations designed to manipulate emotions.) It was like being confronted with all of the answers to my questions after my long search. I knew I had to convert. God was there. Christ is in the Eucharist- which is something I had difficulty accepting as I was raised to accept a very different thing as being the truth- but have certainly experienced beyond a doubt since my Chrismation. Can I prove this to you? No. Were our personal experiences enough to prove it to me and my husband? Yes.

 

[MLEN]

Hi mcflooble,

Because ever since I accepted that he exists and that his son Jesus died to save me from my sins, life has been so much sweeter in too many ways to list. But generally, I have had great peace in the midst of life storms, have been healed from various ailments, have had conversations and sweet communion times with him, have been provided all of my needs and even many desires of my heart, have received his guidance that has kept me from harm and danger, and generally have had a positive and hopeful outlook on life both now and into eternity. With each passing day that I continue to see the love, care and grace God grants on a daily basis - I cannot help but believe in him. His track record of love as evidenced in my life and in the lives of many other Christians (and non-Christians) I know has proven him to be 100% real.

And reflecting on all these things has just increased my faith all the more! Therefore, thanks for asking.

 

[mcflooble]

How does one explain to someone else about experiencing the presence of God? I walked into an Orthodox Church with my husband and I just knew. All I knew was that it wasn't simply my own emotions wreaking havoc with me- some things come from outside of ourselves- and people who know themselves well can discern this difference. (I was raised Pentecostal and I am rather immune to situations designed to manipulate emotions.) It was like being confronted with all of the answers to my questions after my long search. I knew I had to convert. God was there. Christ is in the Eucharist- which is something I had difficulty accepting as I was raised to accept a very different thing as being the truth- but have certainly experienced beyond a doubt since my Chrismation. Can I prove this to you? No. Were our personal experiences enough to prove it to me and my husband? Yes.

This reminds me of when I walked into a church. I started university this year, and made a Christian friend and did some searching. I remember the feeling of the church was really nice. The Christian community is really friendly, filled with really nice people. Although I didn't know whether to pray or not... I thought it might be rude, because I didn't want to feel like an adult would just "playing along" to a kid's games. But then, that's part of being at church, right (praying, I mean)? So I kind of did a half-attempt at praying.

Anyway, I just thought that the church was filled with nice people, but it didn't make me feel like God existed.

I ultimately didn't convert because I decided I could act like I believed in God, but deep down, I knew I wouldn't with the same conviction that I believed in, gravity, for example (I always use gravity as my example).

And, as always, thankyou for the posts!

 

[aiki]

Why do I believe in God? Off the top of my head:

1.) Everything cannot have come from nothing.

2.) The excellent historical evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

3.) The remarkable unity, power, durability, trustworthiness and truth of Scripture.

4.) The powerful philosophical arguments in support of God's existence.

5.) My daily experience of God.

I ultimately didn't convert because I decided I could act like I believed in God, but deep down, I knew I wouldn't with the same conviction that I believed in, gravity, for example (I always use gravity as my example).

If you wouldn't mind, could you explain how a belief in God is not possible for you while belief in the force of Gravity is? Thanks.

Peace.

 

[mcflooble]

Why do I believe in God? Off the top of my head:

1.) Everything cannot have come from nothing.

2.) The excellent historical evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

3.) The remarkable unity, power, durability, trustworthiness and truth of Scripture.

4.) The powerful philosophical arguments in support of God's existence.

5.) My daily experience of God.




If you wouldn't mind, could you explain how a belief in God is not possible for you while belief in the force of Gravity is? Thanks.

Peace.

I'll try. It wasn't a process of reasoning... I just knew that I couldn't believe in God. I had been discussing God with a Christian friend, went to church with her and her family, and thought about God a lot in my spare time. I read The Reason For God and had some emotional dreams that were obviously linked to belief in God. I had some problems with God. Ultimately, I realised that it didn't matter what I thought as much as what I believed. And God is unbelievable to me. I don't know if that's a very good answer.

Since then, I've learned (if that's the right word, I guess you know what I mean) things that convince me further that God isn't real, but they weren't all part of the original reason I couldn't believe.

 

[Beekeeper]

[...] I can't believe in Him and I wonder how people exposed to the arguments against Him can.

Well, arguments against whom?

Suppose just for a moment that you had mounted a fantastic argument against the existence or worthiness of Zeus, except that you called him "God." As far as I am concerned, Zeus is a mythical character who hangs out on Mt. Olympus (in case anyone is reading who claims to worship Zeus, no offense is intended - we simply differ on this point). So why would I struggle with these arguments? They don't pertain to anything I believe.

Different sorts of things persuade people of the existence of different sorts of beings. See what I'm saying?

 

[mcflooble]

Well, arguments against whom?

Suppose just for a moment that you had mounted a fantastic argument against the existence or worthiness of Zeus, except that you called him "God." As far as I am concerned, Zeus is a mythical character who hangs out on Mt. Olympus (in case anyone is reading who claims to worship Zeus, no offense is intended - we simply differ on this point). So why would I struggle with these arguments? They don't pertain to anything I believe.

Different sorts of things persuade people of the existence of different sorts of beings. See what I'm saying?

Hey, it's Beekeeper! I've just thanked you for your post on my other thread
I see what you're saying.

 

[aiki]

I'll try. It wasn't a process of reasoning... I just knew that I couldn't believe in God.

Okay. If you didn't reason your way to your conclusion, wouldn't that make your conclusion unreasonable? Is this unreasonable decision-making normal for you when it comes to what you choose to believe? If you didn't reason your way to this conclusion, then it wasn't initially a logical/intellectual objection to God that prompted your choice, right?

Ultimately, I realised that it didn't matter what I thought as much as what I believed. And God is unbelievable to me. I don't know if that's a very good answer.

Have I got this correct?: You don't think that what you think and what you believe are connected?

Since then, I've learned (if that's the right word, I guess you know what I mean) things that convince me further that God isn't real, but they weren't all part of the original reason I couldn't believe.

Hmmm...So, you decided not to believe in God for no apparent reason and then later found actual reasons that convinced you that you were right not to believe in God? Is this what you're saying? Does this really seem like a good way to make up your mind about something?

Oh, yeah, one other question: what was it that you "learned" that convinced you further of God's non-existence?

Peace.

 

[mcflooble]

Okay. If you didn't reason your way to your conclusion, wouldn't that make your conclusion unreasonable? Is this unreasonable decision-making normal for you when it comes to what you choose to believe? If you didn't reason your way to this conclusion, then it wasn't initially a logical/intellectual objection to God that prompted your choice, right?



Have I got this correct?: You don't think that what you think and what you believe are connected?



Hmmm...So, you decided not to believe in God for no apparent reason and then later found actual reasons that convinced you that you were right not to believe in God? Is this what you're saying? Does this really seem like a good way to make up your mind about something?

Oh, yeah, one other question: what was it that you "learned" that convinced you further of God's non-existence?

Peace.

I don't know how to use multi-quote, but I'll be going through your post in order.

First-off, I'm not very good at explaining it. That doesn't change how reasonable my view is. The conclusion is reasonable even if I applied the most twisted form of logic I could to it, because there is a very good argument in favour of it elsewhere. What I said earlier wasn't an example of such a good argument. I could paraphrase what other people have argued but they aren't my original ideas, and they weren't what I was thinking about directly at the time.

When I think about it, there was a process of reasoning going on in the background, but it didn't feel like it was immediately apparent at the time. For example, God sending people that I love to Hell, God sending people to Hell randomly, God not making Himself obvious... these are some of the problems I had with God but I didn't want to elaborate because I didn't want to get into an argument over them (I still don't... Even if these problems become satisfied I won't believe in God).

Anyway, these things and more were going through my head at the time. It didn't feel like a process of reasoning because they kind of all culminated in my final verdict. I always imagine a process to be neat and orderly, so, despite the fact that it was a process of reasoning, it didn't feel like it was. For the sake of clarity I should have said that, but I didn't think to do so. I wanted to give you a picture of what it felt like at the time.

This unreasonable decision making process is not normal for me when choosing what I believe because you can't choose what you believe. You're simply exposed to facts, opinions and experiences and you end up believing things. You can say you do or don't believe in something or you could really want to believe or not believe in something but that doesn't change what you believe. Even if I wanted to believe in God with all my heart (which I did at one point), I couldn't.

The above also answers your next question. If you read the rest of my post, you'll see that I spent time talking to my Christian friend, went to church, and thought about God a lot in my spare time. So, initially, there was a logical/intellectual objection to God. I can see how you'd think that there wasn't, considering that I did say it wasn't a process of reasoning... an error on my part, which I hope I've explained well enough above.

About thinking and believing being connected. If I think God exists, then it follows that I believe he exists, and vice versa. So yes, they are connected. What I was getting at was it didn't matter about all these arguments for and against God, what mattered was what I believed. And I discovered I was an atheist (I always had a hunch).

For your next question: You have to start from some viewpoint. Agnosticism didn't cut it for me... If you're agnostic, then you still have to be agnostic acting like a believer or agnostic acting like an atheist. If you're agnostic acting like an atheist then you might as well be atheist. This is because you don't believe in God, but you don't know. Aha! That demonstrated a nice difference between thinking and believing. I didn't decide not to believe in God. I discovered that I didn't. Which I think is a very reasonable point to start from, rather than believing that God exists and then trying to find reasons why he doesn't.

Then I discovered reasons that affirmed my non-belief, rather than made me believe.

I'm wary about answering your last question. I don't want to disobey the forum rules, and I don't want to get into a debate because it's not the point of this thread. But I will answer your question because you asked (some of the following aren't directly related to God, but they help):

No evidence.
"God of the gaps".
Evolution.
Paradoxical nature of God.
Contradictions in the Bible.
We're susceptible to religious belief without good reason.
Every religion was created as a hypothesis to answer questions we couldn't answer (can't back this up empirically, but I think it's a good guess. If I consider believing in God, this won't factor into it).
We're susceptible to illusions and tricks of the mind.
Religion holding back science.
Picking and choosing with no apparent reason which parts of the Bible are literal and which are symbolic.
The iffy nature of the creation of the Bible and Christianity.
The many, many, many wildly different religions around the world, some of which sound absurd and are dismissed for the same reasons that should be applied to Christianity.
There is no need for religion.
Ultimately, because it's up to a religion to prove itself, not up to anyone else to disprove it. This is a follow-up of "No evidence".

There might be more but those are just off the top of my head. Gah, I didn't want to do that.