why???

[kopilo]

Why does everyone here talk about Gay people? There is so much more to talk about. I personally have nothing against gay people, its none of my bussiness what they do

pft, I don't even know how sexuality can be considered a moral or ethical issue.

 

[ttreg]

For those that keep on complaining and saying that this is getting into peoples lives: I bet if you go to church this sunday and hear the pastor saying not to lie or commit adultery probaly wouldnt have a problem with it but if he said stuff on homosexuality oh no hes getting into other peoples lives! there is a difference from promoting the truth and being hate ful towards gays

 

[kopilo]

“The ultimate authority must always rest with the individual's own reason and critical analysis.” - Dalai Lama

 

[meebs]

pft, I don't even know how sexuality can be considered a moral or ethical issue.

me too.

I dunno but when i look at a person and know about their personality and sexual preference, i dont see them as gay, lesbian, black, white, red head, blonde etc.

I just see people.

Oh yeah those things above are descriptions of a part of that person and partly defined who that person is - but theres more to them than that.

Wow - ive changed since i was younger, oh i used to be so anti-gay (and no that wasnt because i was closet gay, just closed minded, well and some related to my christian upbringing!), but now - from meeting people, and from looking at these threads and seeing what people say - i utterly changed my mind. Hey these threads have helped in some way.



Time for some christians (i know some already do) to start viewing people as human beings, not give them a label!

 

[TeddyKGB]

For those that keep on complaining and saying that this is getting into peoples lives: I bet if you go to church this sunday and hear the pastor saying not to lie or commit adultery probaly wouldnt have a problem with it but if he said stuff on homosexuality oh no hes getting into other peoples lives! there is a difference from promoting the truth and being hate ful towards gays

I don't care what pastors say. I care if people take their pastors' words as license to legally discriminate. I support rights for homosexuals equal to those of adulterers and liars.

 

[Konkurrent]

I support rights for homosexuals equal to those of adulterers and liars.

Well said. If it would do anything I'd rep you.


This is the big thing I see a lot of fellow Christians doing: singling out certain sins to get self-righteous over while ignoring the other sins which, more often than not, are happening under the figurative roof of your house of worship.

God doesn't qualify sins. He doesn't rank them. Whether you wiped out an entire species of penguin, stuck babies on spikes, or stole your neighbor's newspaper doesn't matter. It's all the same "amount" of sin.

It's binary. You've got one digit for sin. 1 or 0.

 

[Spherical Time]

For those that keep on complaining and saying that this is getting into peoples lives: I bet if you go to church this sunday and hear the pastor saying not to lie or commit adultery probaly wouldnt have a problem with it but if he said stuff on homosexuality oh no hes getting into other peoples lives! there is a difference from promoting the truth and being hate ful towards gays

Not that I go to church, but if I had a pastor that did that, I'd just move on to a different church.

Not that it really matters. It's not the pastor that I'm concerned about, it's the people that vote laws about how I can and cannot live.

 

[JGG]

Why does everyone here talk about Gay people? There is so much more to talk about. I personally have nothing against gay people, its none of my bussiness what they do

Because there are a lot of people out there who really hate gay people, but don't want to admit that they hate gay people, so its necessary to come on here and justify that hate, so they can live comfortably in it. Its called cognitive disonance.

On the other hand, there are people who realize that all that pent up hate isn't good, and is very dangerous, and are trying to "diffuse the bomb" so to speak.

And then there are people out there who are adament about certain personal rights, and want to express a love for those rights.

 

[Mling]

Because there are a lot of people out there who really hate gay people, but don't want to admit that they hate gay people, so its necessary to come on here and justify that hate, so they can live comfortably in it. Its called cognitive disonance.

On the other hand, there are people who realize that all that pent up hate isn't good, and is very dangerous, and are trying to "diffuse the bomb" so to speak.

And then there are people out there who are adament about certain personal rights, and want to express a love for those rights.

I'll add in that sometimes I really don't want to talk about gay stuff, but when I'm thinking, "I'll just ignore this thread" I get this annoyingly sappy image in my head of a confused kid reading the posts. If nobody has actually stood up for gay people (yet) on the site, I can't help but think, "what if this is the first thread the kid reads here, and he's questioning his sexuality, and all he sees is, 'Yeah, they're just horrible aren't they? Don't they hang out in malls and molest kids they find? They're killing the country and they'll all go to hell."

I figure, I've got to say something, even if it doesn't change any of the posters' minds, just so somebody reading it can see that not everybody thinks like that.

 

[JGG]

I'll add in that sometimes I really don't want to talk about gay stuff, but when I'm thinking, "I'll just ignore this thread" I get this annoyling sappy image in my head of a confused kid reading the posts. If nobody has actually stood up for gay people (yet) on the site, I can't help but think, "what if this is the first thread the kid reads here, and he's questioning his sexuality, and all he sees is, 'Yeah, they're just horrible aren't they? Don't they hang out in malls and molest kids they find? They're killing the country and they'll all go to hell."

I figure, I've got to say something, even if it doesn't change any of the posters' minds, just so somebody reading it can see that not everybody thinks like that.

That's true. I should also add that I often try, to break up the misinformation, which there tends to be a lot of.

 

[Konkurrent]

I'll add in that sometimes I really don't want to talk about gay stuff, but when I'm thinking, "I'll just ignore this thread" I get this annoyling sappy image in my head of a confused kid reading the posts. If nobody has actually stood up for gay people (yet) on the site, I can't help but think, "what if this is the first thread the kid reads here, and he's questioning his sexuality, and all he sees is, 'Yeah, they're just horrible aren't they? Don't they hang out in malls and molest kids they find? They're killing the country and they'll all go to hell."

I figure, I've got to say something, even if it doesn't change any of the posters' minds, just so somebody reading it can see that not everybody thinks like that.

I know exactly what you mean.

I can't help but wonder - and I am most assurredly not pointing fingers at anyone here - whether or not some of the attacks on homosexuality is an attempt to justify self-loathing and/or to distract people from that self-loathing.

I have run into people elsewhere who were repressed homosexuals or "ex-gays" who were absolutely hateful towards homosexuals because they happened to be Christian and under the belief that all homosexuals were evil (thereby making them at odds with their own beliefs - a nearly impossible thing to reconcile).

In the past every hyper-aggressive anti-homosexual sentiment I've observed has originated from this kind of source. It seems as though the idea is that if they attack viciously enough no one will suspect that they secretly hate themselves for feeling this way.


Of course this is all speculation on my part, but when you continuously butt heads with a fanatical Mormon who insists he's become 100% heterosexual but cannot view the male form without calling it pornography, you can't help but have the "hogwash" meter peg out on you. (Again, not pointing fingers or making condemnations about anyone, Mormons, gays, ex-gays, or whatever.)

I don't envy homosexuals. I can't imagine that it's easy to live a life that's hated by the two largest religions in the world (Islam and Christianity). I especially don't envy ex-gays, as I haven't met a one that didn't still reek of self-loathing.


What I really don't understand, though, are the Christians that condemn homosexuals so vigorously. Where's the line between that and protesting the funerals of US soldiers carrying picket signs proclaiming that God killed their son because he fought for gays? How much hate is too much hate for Christ's gospel?


Some folks need to be reminded of the refrain of "We are One in The Spirit".

 

[Mling]

...I don't envy homosexuals...

It is not our abilities [or, inborn nature] that define who we are. It is our choices.

I have actually found that being gay has been very beneficial for me. That has a lot to do with other parts of my personality, and what I value. If I were waiting to be born, and choosing what sort of life I wanted to have, I may very well choose to be born into a gay person.

I do not, as a generally rule, place much value on being accepted by mainstream society. Whether that is the mainstream of secular society, or the mainstream of a religion. In fact, the mainstream, almost by definition, is what happens when people stop thinking about what is good and right, and just follow, cowlike, a manipulative message that has been presented to them. I tend to think that if something appeals to the masses, there is a good chance there is something wrong with it.

Being gay sets me appart from mainstream society, and so, helps me see it more clearly. It has helped me learn what I value, and how that differs from what is marketed as "valuable;" what I think is real, and how it differs from what is marketed as "reality" by both secular and religious sources. At the moment I am planning to join the Peace Corps
and I really don't know if I would, if I had not had the opportunity to evaluate my life as deeply as I have, and I know that growing up gay and Christian has been one of the major reasons I have been so hell-bent on uncovering what I truly believe is true--I mean, what is the point in believing something that is not true, just because it would be convenient if it was, and what would be the point in wrecking your only life over something that was a lie to start with?
It is quite possible that at least one major leap in my moral development occured because of these musings.

 

[TheMissus]

Awww, you quoted Dumbledore. I love you.

Just highlight Peace Corps with your mouse, then click on the insert link icon. When the prompt pops up, enter the URL.

I'm glad that your sexuality has benefitted you. It makes me sad to see so many gay Christians practically kill themselves (and sometimes actually kill themselves) because they can't reconcile their sexuality and their religion. It's an unnecessary waste of life.

 

[Konkurrent]

I have actually found that being gay has been very beneficial for me. That has a lot to do with other parts of my personality, and what I value. If I were waiting to be born, and choosing what sort of life I wanted to have, I may very well choose to be born into a gay person.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being gay. There's nothing wrong with being a doctor, but I don't envy anyone that job, either. It's the same as with anything I'm not - because I'm comfortable with who I am, and I've learned to like who I am, I don't feel the need to look across the fence and even try to figure out if their grass is a different color. I just don't want to jump the fence. I like my yard.

I could just as easily say I don't envy women. It's not because I think there's something undesireably about women (I married one of them, after all, and think she's the best person I've ever met, myself included). I just like being male. Sure, I'm speaking from an exceptionally limited perspecting, never having been anything except male, and heterosexual.

But it's because I recognize the limits of my perspective that I choose not to pass judgement based upon it.

I do not, as a generally rule, place much value on being accepted by mainstream society. Whether that is the mainstream of secular society, or the mainstream of a religion. In fact, the mainstream, almost by definition, is what happens when people stop thinking about what is good and right, and just follow, cowlike, a manipulative message that has been presented to them. I tend to think that if something appeals to the masses, there is a good chance there is something wrong with it.

Again, couldn't agree with you more. I've got a nice little condition I was born with that sets me apart. Like yours, mine isn't visible, isn't testable with scientific instruments, can't be seen on an x-ray or an MRI or a genetic test. Unlike yours mine is in the DSM-IV. (Asperger's Syndrome, if anyone's interested.)

And just like you I take serious offense to anyone trying to "cure" me. I like my brain just the way it is, thanks.

The main difference is that having Asperger's doesn't keep me from getting married (though finding a woman that was a match for me wasn't easy), and I don't get told I'm going to hell because my brain comes from the autistic side of the fence.

But then again, a few hundred years ago people like me were often burned at the stake or tortured for being demon possessed. Classic human nature: "He's different! Hit him with a rock!"

Being gay sets me appart from mainstream society, and so, helps me see it more clearly.

I know what you mean here, as well. It's impossible to explain how funny neurotypicals (non-Aspies) appear to us sometimes. Confusing as hell, most of the time, but absolutely hilarious at times.

 

[Mling]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being gay.

Oh, I didn't think you were. I was just thinking, people tend to see it as a hardship. From what I think is the most common perception, being gay in a perfect universe would be no different than being straight, ergo, being gay in this universe means that the most we can fight for and try to become is..."normal" and that the main effects of homosexuality are all obsticals to being normal. I see homosexuality as, in some cases, downright benefitial--the same way I see most anything that makes a person "queer" (in the original sense of the word) as benefitial.

 

[Anovah]

Jerry: We're not gay! Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[tocis]

Why does everyone here talk about Gay people? There is so much more to talk about. I personally have nothing against gay people, its none of my bussiness what they do

I'm all with you.

Even back in my christian times I thought that there are far more urgent problems to be taken care of than wondering whether your neighbor beds men or women.

Some studies have shown that the most rabid "homophobes" seem to be secretly homosexual themselves but can't for the life of them admit that. I don't want to claim it's true, but it would be a good explanation for all the fanaticism and hatred we see from far too many people ("Rev" Phelps being one of the best examples). In that case, they can't cope with their own orientation and instead attack that of others, seeing a chance to at least defeat those people if they can't defeat themselves...