Why?

[12volt_man]

Well, what 12volt_man is SAYING is Christian Music... but what I think he means is the CCM market. There is a difference (and I know he knows that... but for everyone else trying to interpert his posts) between Christians who make music and the CCM market.

It is true that there ARE NO GOOD CCM ARTISTS in the genres he is looking for. But there are great Christians who make music (ex. Buddy & Julie Miller) who aren't in that scene.

You're right. There is a difference and I am speaking specifically of CCM.

All of the artists I listed above, including the Millers, are Christians who are making music in the mainstream and many of their songs reflect overtly Christian themes.

But they had to go out of the Christian market to do it because there was no place for them here.

It's true Julie Miller had some success as a Christian artist, but can you really imagine Iris Dement or Grey Delisle or David Wilcox being embraced by the teenaged girls who make up the bulk of CCM's target market?

They may love Grey Delisle for her cartoon voiceovers (Vicky the Babysitter, "Fairly Oddparents"; Bubbles, "The Powerpuff Girls"; Daphne, "New Scooby Doo Mysteries", etc), but I don't see them getting "My Sweet Savior's Arms".

If you're looking for alt.country stuff, DO investigate the indie scene... there are a good number of fantastic alt.country artists to be found there, many of whom have Christian faith.

There are a lot of them, but they're all in the mainstream, too.

I'm not too into Celtic rock. (The last artist of THAT I listened to was Ballydowse... yikes!)

I've heard them. They were awful.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the Saw Doctors, the Pogues, or even the less angry Black 47 stuff. Perhaps Christy Moore or his brother, Luka Bloom.

 

[yoursXtruely]

Someone also said that there is no Christian jazz. Of course there is. I listen to it.

Christian Jazz? I don't listen to a lot of jazz, but isn't it instrumental?

What makes it "Christian" then?

 

[JesusWasn'tWhite]

Music, specifically the kind lacking lyrics (ex: jazz), can not be "Christian" or "non-Christian" (or "secular"). The differentiation between the two can not be made from a strictly listening standpoint. One could look into the artist that created the lyricless music, and see if he/she is a Christian, but that still says nothing about the music created by that person.

Are you going to classify all classical music as secular? Or sacred?
Many of the hymns created by classical musicians employed by the Church were actually very secular, erotic songs. The musicians were basically playing a trick on the organized Church at the time. (I want to say it was around the Boroque era in music, but I'm not sure about that)
So, what then are those hymns? Secular because of who created them? Sacred because of those who used the songs as praise?
Music is music.

Would someone please put on some Miles Davis or Duke Ellington and tell me that those are necessarily secular or sacred?

Besides how much this thread, and others of its kind, angers me, it saddens me that the body of Christ, however shambled it may be, is nitpicking on one another (see: Boycotting Blindside thread) about music, while still maintaining that we should love those who do not believe. How can we effectively love our "enemies" if we can not love our brothers and sisters? [keeping also in mind that love does not necessarily mean agreeance]

Don't call me out because my "Christian" music isn't of the standard you put on yourself.
Don't call me out because my music screams, shouts, growls, and cries.
Don't call me out because my music is different than yours.

 

[Z500]

Don't call me out because my "Christian" music isn't of the standard you put on yourself.
Don't call me out because my music screams, shouts, growls, and cries.
Don't call me out because my music is different than yours.

if you listen to music that cries, you're asking for it

 

[JesusWasn'tWhite]

"Cries" doesn't necessarily mean tears. It can also mean loud shouts, outward expressions of internal emotions, and proclamations.

 

[Pnkr4Christ]

Actually jazz does have lyrics. If you listen to a lot of what they call "Jazz Standards," those mostly all have lyrics. Some of the Jazz Standards are songs from musicals or classics given a jazz swing. If you listen to Duke Ellington for example, most if not all of his songs have lyrics. So what Christian Jazz musicians do is take hymns or praise and worship songs and give them a jazz style.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

Maybe because there are more secular bands than Christian bands, because those secular bands are (for the most part) more talented than most Christian bands, and because there are many Christians who don't feel convicted to listen only to Christian artists.

Its not about the talent of the music, it is about the message.

Either it praises God or it praises the desires of the flesh.

Such a small fundamental truth that decieves so many.

Love, Joy, and Peace to all.

 

[foo-oswald]

Its not about the talent of the music, it is about the message.

Either it praises God or it praises the desires of the flesh.

Such a small fundamental truth that decieves so many.

Love, Joy, and Peace to all.

Yes, it is about the talent in this particular section of the forum. This is the SECULAR MUSIC discussion forum. And, besides that, there simply isn't anything wrong with listening to, and/or discussing the talent- or lack of talent- in the music industry today.

Your type of opinion about music is exactly why there's so much crummy CCM out there. Why is this so hard to grasp?!?!?!? Oh, I know why. People roll in. make a quicky post without reading any of the previous posts, then roll out, never to be heard from again. Aaaahrrgghghgh!!!

 

[antiarte]

Its not about the talent of the music, it is about the message.

First, you do need talent to make music. And it's not really about the "message". If you wanna send a message use Western Union.

What if I make instrumental music? I know someone who plays the violin, he's a Christian. He doesn't sing or puts words or a "message" to the music.

 

[JesusWasn'tWhite]

The message isn't going to get very far if the music is terrible because the musicians either a) are not talented or b) are not using their God-given talent in the way they should.

 

[Walks On Water]

it's because everyone has different taste. Thats all.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

it's because everyone has different taste. Thats all.

Yes and alot never lose that taste for the desires of the sinful nature.

How come everytime I talk about rap or metal someone compares it to a violin solo or a John Denver song.

There is quite a difference between blasphemous metal and a symphonic orchestra and then someone wants to generalize all the music so they can avoid the discussion and continue to justify the message of the sinful lyrics.

Then someone will compare the lyrics of Slayer that talk about committing suicide, murder, hailing the devil, and compare it to something they ate for breakfast.

I would like to see alot of you go to one of these heavy metal or rap shows and go around witnessing and telling them about Jesus. Oh I am just there to blend in and watch the talent of the music and the fact that others are cursing, beating each other up, carousing with the ladies, doing drugs, and blatantly slapping my beliefs in the face doesn't bother me.

Step out of your comfort zone and share the gospel at one of these shows since you all approve of the message because I can listen to the music and I am spiritually strong.

Your right it isn't my right to tell you what to do but I am not going to sit here and watch everyong approve of music that will keep alot from being set free and lead alot astray.

If anyone is responding in righteous anger remember no flaming and blessed are the peacemakers because they will be called sons of God.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

But only the truth heals.

Its all about Love.

Peace.

 

[12volt_man]

Hey, Pnkr4Christ, don't forget that I'm still waiting for that list of Christian artists you promised me.

 

[foo-oswald]

Yes and alot never lose that taste for the desires of the sinful nature.

How come everytime I talk about rap or metal someone compares it to a violin solo or a John Denver song.

There is quite a difference between blasphemous metal and a symphonic orchestra and then someone wants to generalize all the music so they can avoid the discussion and continue to justify the message of the sinful lyrics.

Then someone will compare the lyrics of Slayer that talk about committing suicide, murder, hailing the devil, and compare it to something they ate for breakfast.

I would like to see alot of you go to one of these heavy metal or rap shows and go around witnessing and telling them about Jesus. Oh I am just there to blend in and watch the talent of the music and the fact that others are cursing, beating each other up, carousing with the ladies, doing drugs, and blatantly slapping my beliefs in the face doesn't bother me.

Step out of your comfort zone and share the gospel at one of these shows since you all approve of the message because I can listen to the music and I am spiritually strong.

Your right it isn't my right to tell you what to do but I am not going to sit here and watch everyong approve of music that will keep alot from being set free and lead alot astray.

If anyone is responding in righteous anger remember no flaming and blessed are the peacemakers because they will be called sons of God.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

But only the truth heals.

Its all about Love.

Peace.

Who has compared Slayer lyrics to what they had for breakfast? Oh, I get it! That's your idea of being "all about love" and not "flaming" when you say that. Okay.

You'll be more effective for the Kingdom when you come to the realization that there's way more out there keeping people from being set free than metal.

And, if you wouldn't mind, talk about your experiences witnessing at metal concerts...

 

[yoursXtruely]

Its not about the talent of the music, it is about the message.

Either it praises God or it praises the desires of the flesh.

Such a small fundamental truth that decieves so many.

Love, Joy, and Peace to all.

This is a song by a secular artist. Can you please tell me how it "praises the desires of the flesh"? It's a song about questioning everything you've been taught and maybe coming to a new realization of what life is really about. (Note that it DOES have symbols and metaphors, so don't draw your conclusions based on any one line.)

See the animal in it's cage that you built
Are you sure what side you're on
Better not look him too closely in the eye
Are you sure what side of the glass you are on
See the safety of the life you have built
Everything where it belongs
Feel the hollowness inside of your heart
And it's all
Right where it belongs

[Chorus:]
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems
What if all the world you think you know
Is an elaborate dream
And if you look at your reflection
Is it all you wanted to be?
What if you could look right through the cracks
Would you find yourself
Find yourself afriad to see?

What if all the world's inside of your head
Just creations of your own
Your devils and your gods
All the living and the dead
And you really are alone
You can live in this illusion
You can choose to believe
You keep looking but you can't find the words
Are you hiding in the dreams?

 

[Macewindu77815]

Amongst the Flock...you say that any music not praising God is against Him, so in your line of reasoning any music that isn't expressing God as the Savior of mankind is anti-Christian...this would include symphonies and jazz.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Many of us were unbelievers while growing up and secular music is what we heard. I am in my 40's..... and I still love to listen to good old 60's, 70's and 80's classic rock music as long as they don't interfer with my Christian faith.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

"Either it praises God or it praises the desires of the flesh."

Um.....who told you that? You better shut out the rest of your life. Never read a book that isn't either the bible or religious literature. If it doesn't praise God, well you know. School is evil, then, because of books like "Science" or "English." They don't praise god so obviously they are evil. Quit watching any tv. No secular news. No movies. I could gg further but I'll stick to things that directly associate with what you are saying. I believe I've just proven why we all think you look so foolish when you come here with your holier than thou I need to save you form yourselves and your music load of bull. We like secular music, you don't. DON'T POST HERE THEN.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

Who has compared Slayer lyrics to what they had for breakfast? Oh, I get it! That's your idea of being "all about love" and not "flaming" when you say that. Okay.

You'll be more effective for the Kingdom when you come to the realization that there's way more out there keeping people from being set free than metal.

And, if you wouldn't mind, talk about your experiences witnessing at metal concerts...

Come with me and when we are done we can have a hug.

 

[talitha]

yoursXtruly,

I used to listen to that kind of music with that kind of lyrics (actually recorded a demo at the same studio where that band had just recorded an album, btw), and it got me all kinds of nowhere -- I was identifying with the futility in the lyrics, and denying that it got to me, but it DID...... oh, it did...... and it's pride to say there is no hope when God says that there IS, when Jesus died to give you hope. The desire of the flesh that this kind of music and lyric fulfills is the pride of being your own god. I know you probably won't believe me, but I have been there and I am straight up......

This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. (Ephesians 4:17-19)

The above scripture shows the progression, the downward spiral that I became all-too-familiar with until the Lord intervened. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good guitar riff, just means I have to be aware of the spirit behind the music. After I removed myself from it all for a couple of years, I began to have some discernment, TBTG......

blessings on you
tal