Why you worship Jesus ?

peace upon you all

one of the reasons that many people calling Jesus is God or son of God or God in flesh " whatever the name is " is that he did such great miracles healing people here and there, making the dead alive , controlling the wind, feeding so many people with less food bla bla bla
but the one who starts to read the whole holy bible, will find out that all such miracles happened before by other prophets, while no one called them Gods, no one ever tried to worship them because God is not a man nor a son of a man, Earth can not contain God, even sky and sky of skies can not contain God. God shall not die, God is the living God from everlasting to ever lasting , God is the first and the last , but God is not the beginning and the end that's why it can't be true what came in john 1:1

1- Elijah returned the dead boy alive again by the help of God :1 Kings 17:18 -23


2- Ezekiel returned the dead of a whole army back go life again by the help of God : Ezekiel 37: 1- 10

3- Elisha Healing a man from leprosy by the help of God : 2 Kings 5:1


4- Elisha returning the vision for a blind boy by the help of God
Elisha punished the whole army and made them blind then returned vision to them : 2 Kings 6:17 - 20


5- Joshua Stood the sun in the middle of the heaven by the help of God : Joshua 10:12-13


6- Isaiah let the earth go the opposite of its direction by the help of God
Isaiah 38:7-8

7- Elisha turns the naught water into good water for drink : 2 Kings 2:19 - 20

8- Also Moses turned the water to blood “ the whole nile revir”

9- Moses spited the red sea all by the help and permission of God

10 - Elijah spited the river with his cloth 2-kings 2 : 8- 9

11 - Elijah sends fire from sky to burn 102 solider in 2-kings 1: 7-15



after all
Jesus himself denied he could do anything from himself , it's all by the help and permission of God, even the words he is saying , even the way he is talking .. simply he came to do the will of the one who sent him, notice also what jesus said i judge as God tells me , so Jesus will judge in judgement day ? how it could be and he is unable to judge us in this life ? !!

I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
John 5:30
Then Jesus cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, "You both know Me and know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know.
John 7:28


so the question now is " why you worship Jesus ? "

1- if it's about miracles .. they are not from Jesus as he clearly mentioned not from me but from the one who sent me .. like all others came before him and did the same even greater miracles.
2- if it's about crucifixion .. we talked about this before saying that God will not curse himself ?! as he is the one said in the bible " the hanged on the cross is under the curse of God" so how God will send himself to curse himself ? weird !!!
also I mentioned before in other topics that there are a lot a lot of prophecies talking about God will rescue him , will save him , will honor him , will deliver him , will set him high , will let the angels save him even from the stone that may hit his feet.
3- if it’s about savior , yes he is our savior but as a prophet .. as long as we follow his teachings to believe in one God yes he is our savior and that will be true but each soul will bear its own sins that’s what the holy bible says and it’s true that’s why God many times in the tourah saying and urging people to repent and ask forgiveness.
May God bless and guide you all brothers and sisters
Amen
Peace be with u

By the way blessings to you brother, I sincerely appreciate your tone and genuineness in these questions. I pray that you would find fulfillment and peace in God

Usama.Egyptian said:

peace upon you all

one of the reasons that many people calling Jesus is God or son of God or God in flesh " whatever the name is " is that he did such great miracles healing people here and there, making the dead alive , controlling the wind, feeding so many people with less food bla bla bla
but the one who starts to read the whole holy bible, will find out that all such miracles happened before by other prophets, while no one called them Gods, no one ever tried to worship them because God is not a man nor a son of a man, Earth can not contain God, even sky and sky of skies can not contain God. God shall not die, God is the living God from everlasting to ever lasting , God is the first and the last , but God is not the beginning and the end that's why it can't be true what came in john 1:1

1- Elijah returned the dead boy alive again by the help of God :1 Kings 17:18 -23


2- Ezekiel returned the dead of a whole army back go life again by the help of God : Ezekiel 37: 1- 10

3- Elisha Healing a man from leprosy by the help of God : 2 Kings 5:1


4- Elisha returning the vision for a blind boy by the help of God
Elisha punished the whole army and made them blind then returned vision to them : 2 Kings 6:17 - 20


5- Joshua Stood the sun in the middle of the heaven by the help of God : Joshua 10:12-13


6- Isaiah let the earth go the opposite of its direction by the help of God
Isaiah 38:7-8

7- Elisha turns the naught water into good water for drink : 2 Kings 2:19 - 20

8- Also Moses turned the water to blood “ the whole nile revir”

9- Moses spited the red sea all by the help and permission of God

10 - Elijah spited the river with his cloth 2-kings 2 : 8- 9

11 - Elijah sends fire from sky to burn 102 solider in 2-kings 1: 7-15



after all
Jesus himself denied he could do anything from himself , it's all by the help and permission of God, even the words he is saying , even the way he is talking .. simply he came to do the will of the one who sent him, notice also what Jesus said i judge as God tells me , so Jesus will judge in judgement day ? how it could be and he is unable to judge us in this life ? !!

I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
John 5:30
Then Jesus cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, "You both know Me and know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know.
John 7:28


so the question now is " why you worship Jesus ? "

1- if it's about miracles .. they are not from Jesus as he clearly mentioned not from me but from the one who sent me .. like all others came before him and did the same even greater miracles.
2- if it's about crucifixion .. we talked about this before saying that God will not curse himself ?! as he is the one said in the bible " the hanged on the cross is under the curse of God" so how God will send himself to curse himself ? weird !!!
also I mentioned before in other topics that there are a lot a lot of prophecies talking about God will rescue him , will save him , will honor him , will deliver him , will set him high , will let the angels save him even from the stone that may hit his feet.
3- if it’s about savior , yes he is our savior but as a prophet .. as long as we follow his teachings to believe in one God yes he is our savior and that will be true but each soul will bear its own sins that’s what the holy bible says and it’s true that’s why God many times in the tourah saying and urging people to repent and ask forgiveness.
May God bless and guide you all brothers and sisters
Amen
Peace be with u

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I am dying to answer these challenges, but as I pointed out i am bound by a command in scripture that tells me not to throw pearls of wisdom before swine.. If you give me some indication that you are not one of the dogs or pigs Jesus is describing I could help you in your new quest. But that means you must say or do something not consistent with these people.

So please show me something that will allow me to help.

Dear brother
I hope that you may read each word i type for you and for all brothers and sisters reading my words to you.
Me never says reject jesus because it’s a must in our faith to believe in all of jesus teachings because surely it will be the continuation of Moses’s Teaching
Your God and my God , God of Abraham , Isaac , Ishmael , David , Soloman , Job , Joushua , Moses , Jesus and Mohamed peace be upon them all.
I want you my brother to be honest with yourself, when you stand in front of God telling why you worshiped Jesus ?
You will answer the following :

jehoiakim said:

Answers....

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jehoiakim said:

1. No it is not about the miracles, the miracles are merely evidence that he was from God. Especially the abundance of them because the prophets never did as many miracles as Jesus did, not even Moses.

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Is it about How many or how big is the miracle ?
Moses the one you underestimate him made miracles even greater than what jesus did
Moses changed the water of the whole nile river to blood by the help of God
Moses changed the light into darkness by the help of God
Moses changed the inanimate to alive “the wooden stick to a big snake” by the help of God
Moses changed divided the red sea in front of all people of jews and saved them by the help of God

Well now you tell me what is the greatest miracle of Jesus ? !
Compare it with any of the miracles mentioned above ? !!
1- If Jesus made the dead alive .. Moses brought a living creature from inanimate ? !
Which one is bigger ? !
2- If Jesus controlled the wind to let the sea calm .. Moses changed the light into darkness in the middle of the day
Which one is bigger ?
3- If Jesus healed some people were blind and returned his vision while Elisha punished the whole army and made them blind then returned vision to them : 2 Kings 6:17 – 20
And Elijah sends fire from sky to burn 102 solider in 2-kings 1: 7-15
Whole army ?? hundreds maybe thousands ... so is it about how many ? !

jehoiakim said:

2. as for the crucifixion and your comment about being hung on a cross a curse...
the scriptures says hanged on a tree, not a cross. To my knowledge that scripture was written before far crucifixion was ever invented by the Persians or improved by the Romans. Therefore it must have been talking about being hung with a rope. Even if it were true, I would assume that there is probably more meaning behind it. Why would God curse some one for being hanged on a tree, I would be looking specifically for the Hebrew meaning of the word, sometimes our translations our poor and considering the historical context of the time.......

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your bible confirming that the one hung on the wood is under the curse of God and Jesus was hung on the wood “cross” that’s why he bear our sins
go to : Gal-3-13
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” Galatians 3:13 (World English Bible)

The bible confirming that Jeus was hunged on the cross
read your book , my brother
if you want further details you may read joushua and see how God ordered him to hang kings to put them under the curse of God.

jehoiakim said:

3. Your concern that God is one... yes he is, and we believe Christ to be the physical manifestation of God, not a separate being from God. He would be a part of God that allowed himself to take on limitations of man which he had to in order to quathlify as a man and still be able to fulfill the requirements as a substitution sacrifice.

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If they are united .. if they are one .. if Jesus is God himself
then why the will of Jesus is different than the will of God ?
then why Jesus died while God said we shall not die ?
then why Jesus is the servant of God ?
then why Jesus didn’t ask people to worship him ?
then why Jesus didn’t declare “ I am God “ while he talked openly to people in the temple

jehoiakim said:

***4. The biggest reason we worship Christ as God is because he claimed to be God, take for example
Then there is the fact that the Sanhedrin had him crucified because they said he claimed to be God. If he never claimed that or didn't believe he was, why would he remain silent at his trial. If he did not believe he was God and there was some accusation even surely he would want to set the record straight, not only for his own life's sake, but so that he wouldn't distract from God's Glory.

To paraphrase the argument of CS Lewis... Jesus claimed to be God, so either he was God as he said, he is was a lunatic or a liar. He could not have been just a good teacher or a prophet and claim to be God because he would then be evil and a liar.

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I am ? !! then why he didn’t continue it and declared it openly “ I am God” ? !!
Iand the father are one doesn’t mean he is God, it means are one in the goal and it doesn’t prove that he is God by any means because God declared Himself clearly obveiously for all people “ I am Yahweh your God “ all over the old testament.



The conclusion is it’s all about how big not how many
he is my savoir he came to die for me and bear my sins, he came to say me and the father are one
God will answer didn’t you read that “ each soul will bear its own sins “
Didn’t you read that the father shall not die for sons sins nor the sons will die for fathers sins
Didn’t you read that God don’t change
Didn’t you read that jesus told you that i can not do anything on my own , i came to do the will of the one who sent me
Didn’t you read that Jesus told you i judge as God tells me
Didn’t you read that jesus himself bow down with his face on the ground praying for God
Didn’t you read that jesus in the bible is the servant of God
Didn’t you read that jesus in the bible declared he is a prophet
Didn’t you read that the greatest commandment is O listen Isreal Our God is One
Didn’t you read that God is not a man nor a son of a man
Didn’t you read that Jesus is a man and a son of a man
Didn’t you read that God shall not die

Usama.Egyptian said:

Dear brother
I hope that you may read each word i type for you and for all brothers and sisters reading my words to you.
Me never says reject jesus because it’s a must in our faith to believe in all of jesus teachings because surely it will be the continuation of Moses’s Teaching

Click to expand...

If you claim to believe in Jesus' teachings, then you have to believe that He was the Son of God, as He repeated Himself, and was later repeated by His closest friends and students: the disciples.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Your God and my God , God of Abraham , Isaac , Ishmael , David , Soloman , Job , Joushua , Moses , Jesus and Mohamed peace be upon them all.
I want you my brother to be honest with yourself, when you stand in front of God telling why you worshiped Jesus ?
You will answer the following :


Is it about How many or how big is the miracle ?
Moses the one you underestimate him made miracles even greater than what jesus did
Moses changed the water of the whole nile river to blood by the help of God
Moses changed the light into darkness by the help of God
Moses changed the inanimate to alive “the wooden stick to a big snake” by the help of God
Moses changed divided the red sea in front of all people of jews and saved them by the help of God

Well now you tell me what is the greatest miracle of Jesus ? !
Compare it with any of the miracles mentioned above ? !!
1- If Jesus made the dead alive .. Moses brought a living creature from inanimate ? !
Which one is bigger ? !
2- If Jesus controlled the wind to let the sea calm .. Moses changed the light into darkness in the middle of the day
Which one is bigger ?
3- If Jesus healed some people were blind and returned his vision while Elisha punished the whole army and made them blind then returned vision to them : 2 Kings 6:17 – 20
And Elijah sends fire from sky to burn 102 solider in 2-kings 1: 7-15
Whole army ?? hundreds maybe thousands ... so is it about how many ? ! ]/quote]

Moses did not make the sea turn red, or sky turn dark. That was God. Moses didn't do anything except warn that it would happen.

Jesus, however, has the authority to command the elements. Satan himself acknowledged this when he tried to tempt Jesus. Satan told Jesus to turn a rock into bread, but Jesus refused. Satan told Jesus that He could throw Himself off a cliff, and the angels will protect Him.

Why did Satan say these things? Because he knew what Jesus knew, and what Jesus had been preaching His whole life: that He is the Son of God. Why else would Satan ask, "If you are the Son of God...?" (Matthew 4:1-11)

Usama.Egyptian said:

your bible confirming that the one hung on the wood is under the curse of God and Jesus was hung on the wood “cross” that’s why he bear our sins
go to : Gal-3-13
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” Galatians 3:13 (World English Bible)

The bible confirming that Jeus was hunged on the cross
read your book , my brother
if you want further details you may read joushua and see how God ordered him to hang kings to put them under the curse of God.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you answered your own question. The Bible says that He would be cursed, and what the curse amounted to were the sins of the world.

Where does scripture say anything different? If Paul can quote Old Testament to prove how the Messiah would be cursed, then how could scripture contradict itself?

Usama.Egyptian said:

If they are united .. if they are one .. if Jesus is God himself
then why the will of Jesus is different than the will of God ?
then why Jesus died while God said we shall not die ?
then why Jesus is the servant of God ?
then why Jesus didn’t ask people to worship him ?
then why Jesus didn’t declare “ I am God “ while he talked openly to people in the temple

I am ? !! then why he didn’t continue it and declared it openly “ I am God” ? !!
Iand the father are one doesn’t mean he is God, it means are one in the goal and it doesn’t prove that he is God by any means because God declared Himself clearly obveiously for all people “ I am Yahweh your God “ all over the old testament.

Click to expand...

Jesus did not say that He and the Father were simply of one mind or goal. Read closely:

John 8:58-59 - “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

By claiming the title "I Am," Jesus was equating Himself with God. You can tell from the reactions of His audience that Jesus' meaning was very well understood.

Matthew 27:43 - "He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.'"

There are multiple occasions where Jesus did outwardly say that He was God. All you have to do is search the words "Son of God" in the New Testament, and you'll see a ton of verses come up.

John 8:23 - But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world."

If Jesus was not God, then how can He claim Himself to be "from above?" Only God and the angels are from above, so who is Jesus?

Usama.Egyptian said:

God will answer didn’t you read that “ each soul will bear its own sins “

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This is why we need Jesus, because we can never account for our sins. Why do you think God lived behind a curtain instead of in the midst of His people? It's because no matter how pure their sacrifices, they could never fully pay the price for their sin. Only the Savior could reunite us with God.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that the father shall not die for sons sins nor the sons will die for fathers sins

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You're taking scripture out of context. Taking a burden upon oneself, removing it from someone else, is not what was being talked about. It's saying that God would not see the sins of one man and count them as the sins of another. God is just.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that God don’t change

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When did He change? Even in the beginning, God referred to Himself as "we" and "us." Yet we also see from scripture that God is one. Here, from the start, is the revelation of the paradox revealed in the New Testament: One God, three persons.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that jesus told you that i can not do anything on my own , i came to do the will of the one who sent me

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Jesus was God in the form of a man. As a man, Jesus had every human limitation. But He was empowered by the Father to do the things He did. This is not news to me.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that Jesus told you i judge as God tells me

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I really wish you would list a specific scripture for me to see, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that jesus himself bow down with his face on the ground praying for God

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Scripture please.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that jesus in the bible is the servant of God

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He does the will of the Father, because He and the Father are one. If you have any evidence that says otherwise, please be specific.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that jesus in the bible declared he is a prophet

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Yes, but it wasn't until later that people started claiming that Jesus said He was only a prophet, which is simply not true.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that the greatest commandment is O listen Isreal Our God is One

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Yes. This is why we believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that God is not a man nor a son of a man

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Scripture please. I'm betting you're taking it out of context. The Father Himself is not a son of man. The Father created man, and through man, He became born of a virgin woman. This is why Jesus is called both the Son of Man and the Son of God. Jesus is both.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that Jesus is a man and a son of a man

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See above. Scripture also calls Him the Son of God. Even Old Testament scripture says that He will be called "Mighty God."

Isaiah 9:6 - For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

What child could possibly be called "Mighty God" or "Everlasting Father?" Only Jesus could claim such a title.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Didn’t you read that God shall not die

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Show me a verse so I may correct you. Besides, Jesus didn't stay dead, and the Father never died. Jesus was raised from the dead, and He is still alive.

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GrayAngel said:

If you claim to believe in Jesus' teachings, then you have to believe that He was the Son of God, as He repeated Himself, and was later repeated by His closest friends and students: the disciples.

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Peace be upon you brother
Son of God son of God son of god
According to the bible
Adam is the son of God
Soloman is the son of God
All Jews are considered to be son of God
There are so many evidences that proving God is giving examples
1. Sons of God vs Sons of vipers (Mathew 3-7 / Mathew 10-34 / Mathew 23-33 / luke 3-7)
Those that making peace and rest are sons of God
And those doing the sins and wars are sons of vipers and evil
Also read : This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring
Romans 9:8
I don’t know why you people acting stubborn ? !! so clear it’s only a label for those that followers and believers.
All Jewish manuscripts confirming that God is not a flesh and bones, God is not a man nor a son of a man , confirming that there is no likeness for God, confirming that God is invisible , confirming that God shall not come from a womb of a woman where it’s mixed with blood and dirt of pregnancy, confirming that God doesn’t eat like human, confirming that God is eternal from everlasting to everlasting, confirming that God is the first and last, confirming that God has no beginning or an end, go to ::: http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=dUQ-AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.RA1-PA3 please go to page no 91 till page no 97
remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, Isaiah 46:9
For this time I will send all my plagues on you yourself, and on your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth. Exodus 9:14
Can’t you read , can’t you understand , can’t you comprehend ?
There is none like me in all the earth .. ALL THE EARTH .. ALL THE EARTH
Moses did even greater than what Jesus did ?
Many other prophets did even greater and much more than what jesus did ?
So Jesus can’t be God as there are so many others did like him even much more.

one more example I want to tell you , in many verses God mentioned he is angry, Yes God knows anger because he is the one created that feeling of anger, Does it mean our anger is like God’s anger ? well it should be restricted with the verse mentioned above “No one like me” so God was showing anger but his anger is not like our anger. That’s how it goes. and you can measure all other verses on the same view. And that’s what we believe in Islam and the bible confirming this somehow.
God spoke in quran about the light of his face , does it mean it’s the same light we see in our lives ? Does it mean that God have a face like us ? !
It’s all restricted within the rule “ No one like him in all earth “

GrayAngel said:

Moses did not make the sea turn red, or sky turn dark. That was God. Moses didn't do anything except warn that it would happen.

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That’s true and that’s why I said “ by the help and permission of God”
And Jesus summarized all this in just one verse :
FROM MYSELF I CAN DO NOTHING , EVEN I CAN’T JUDGE , I ONLY SAY THE JUDGE OF GOD THAT’S WHY MY JUDGE IS EVEN, AND HE ADDED I CAME TO DO THE WILL OF THE ONE WHO SENT ME.
All Jesus actions are not from him .. all his judges are not from him .. IT’S THE WILL OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM
So so clear !!!

GrayAngel said:

Sounds like you answered your own question. The Bible says that He would be cursed, and what the curse amounted to were the sins of the world.

Where does scripture say anything different? If Paul can quote Old Testament to prove how the Messiah would be cursed, then how could scripture contradict itself?

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The hung on the wood happened around 4 times within the whole bible and the 4 cases were all punishments for disbelievers to put them under the curse of God. It was the worst worst punishment ever that was done by jewish kings and prophets.


Now you telling me “the bible says he would be cursed”
My brother for God sake where is your mind ?
Where is your just judge ?
Where is your goodness inside you ?
God will curse himself ? !
How it could be ? GOD BY HIS GLORY AND HIGNESS will curse himself and let some jews and Romans to spit on him ?
Does this God deserve to be worshiped as he curses himself ?

GrayAngel said:

Jesus did not say that He and the Father were simply of one mind or goal. Read closely:
John 8:58-59 - “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
By claiming the title "I Am," Jesus was equating Himself with God. You can tell from the reactions of His audience that Jesus' meaning was very well understood.
Matthew 27:43 - "He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.'"
There are multiple occasions where Jesus did outwardly say that He was God. All you have to do is search the words "Son of God" in the New Testament, and you'll see a ton of verses come up.

John 8:23 - But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world."
If Jesus was not God, then how can He claim Himself to be "from above?" Only God and the angels are from above, so who is Jesus?
This is why we need Jesus, because we can never account for our sins. Why do you think God lived behind a curtain instead of in the midst of His people? It's because no matter how pure their sacrifices, they could never fully pay the price for their sin. Only the Savior could reunite us with God.

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First of all God will not compare him with a human ever ?
Never happened in the whole holy bible that God compared himself with a human ?
Why Jesus compared himself with Abraham ? because he is a human like him
And read the verse carefully , what is talking about ?
About existence and being ,, then Jesus should compare himself with Adam it would be much bigger and harder cause Adam is even before Abraham, you may answer me it’s because of the context and Jews were proud of Abraham, I will answer you is that Jesus should not compare himself at all with a human cause God never did this at all, but because he is a human he compared himself with a human like him.
Another challenge , give me one Only One single verse that God compared himself with a human in the whole holy bible !!!!
I am 100% sure, you will find null .. none .. zero .. nothing
And it’s not only my challenge but believe me God himself challenging you
If you can answer:
To whom then will you compare me, that I should be like him? says the Holy One. Isaiah 40:25
Answer if you can ..

GrayAngel said:

You're taking scripture out of context. Taking a burden upon oneself, removing it from someone else, is not what was being talked about. It's saying that God would not see the sins of one man and count them as the sins of another. God is just.

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GrayAngel said:

[/qoute]
The whole old testament which is considered to be the tourah confirming that each soul shall bear its own sins
I didn’t understand your point in that paragraph, please explain cause u are talking so mysterious. Please be so clear and straight to the point.

GrayAngel said:

When did He change? Even in the beginning, God referred to Himself as "we" and "us." Yet we also see from scripture that God is one. Here, from the start, is the revelation of the paradox revealed in the New Testament: One God, three persons.

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You know and I know also that in English to add pride and highness while talking you may use “we” and many kings before used the word “ we “ in their speechs.
That’s one point and it’s so so true and clear
The other point let us take it verbally as “we” just for assuming
Now you are requested to explain this to us :
Habakkuk 1:12
Are you not from everlasting, O LORD my God, my Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD,

If you are taking it verbally then God said “ we shall not die”
That means God lied because jesus died for 3 days if the text was “ we shall not die except for 3 days” I will totally believe it but the text made no exceptions .. it’s a fact that will never change
Waiting your explanation..

I will be back later to comment on the rest of your comments.
Peace be with you my brother and all of you

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John 1v1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

This is the Apostle Johns understanding of who Jesus is. He is the "Word". Who/what exactly is the "Word"?

As we know God is Holy and he cannot come near sin, he is infinite and we are finite, so therefore this makes it difficult fort us to approach him, or him to approach us. We would die in his presence. So God allows part of himself, his right hand , if you will, to interact with the world and people, this person is referred to in Hebrew thought as the "Memra". "Memra" is the word in Aramaic for Word. So what John is so eloquently saying is that Jesus is this Memra/Word and therefore the part of God which interacts with the finite world. He is not separate from God, but is God.

You you assertion is that Jesus never directly say "I am the Son of God", this is not accurate because he did speak of himself as this but not in these words.

You need to remember that Judaism had existed for two and half thousand years before Jesus' birth. God has spoken through he prophets many times about a redeemer who would save Israel from their enemies, many of the prophets had spoken seeming in riddles, and are often difficult to understand. The Sages of Israel have interpreted the prophecies as God had shown them and discussed them endlessly to get a better understanding of who God is. There are books big enough to fill a library of these Sages understanding and discussions about the nature of God and his plan, and how to follow his commands. They talk about this redeemer and refer to him as the "Messiah" or "Anointed One". This Messiah has many different titles, so well known and others not so. One of the more well known titles of the Messiah is "Son of Man". Jesus often speaks of himself as the "Son of Man" as referring to Daniels prophecy “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, a coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient
of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." (Daniel 7v13)

I could go on, but I'll leave it there for now.

Usama.Egyptian said:

Peace be upon you brother
Son of God son of God son of god
According to the bible
Adam is the son of God
Soloman is the son of God
All Jews are considered to be son of God
There are so many evidences that proving God is giving examples
1. Sons of God vs Sons of vipers (Mathew 3-7 / Mathew 10-34 / Mathew 23-33 / luke 3-7)
Those that making peace and rest are sons of God
And those doing the sins and wars are sons of vipers and evil
Also read : This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring
Romans 9:8
I don’t know why you people acting stubborn ? !! so clear it’s only a label for those that followers and believers.
All Jewish manuscripts confirming that God is not a flesh and bones, God is not a man nor a son of a man , confirming that there is no likeness for God, confirming that God is invisible , confirming that God shall not come from a womb of a woman where it’s mixed with blood and dirt of pregnancy, confirming that God doesn’t eat like human, confirming that God is eternal from everlasting to everlasting, confirming that God is the first and last, confirming that God has no beginning or an end, go to ::: http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=dUQ-AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.RA1-PA3 please go to page no 91 till page no 97
remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, Isaiah 46:9
For this time I will send all my plagues on you yourself, and on your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is none like me in all the earth. Exodus 9:14
Can’t you read , can’t you understand , can’t you comprehend ?
There is none like me in all the earth .. ALL THE EARTH .. ALL THE EARTH
Moses did even greater than what Jesus did ?
Many other prophets did even greater and much more than what jesus did ?
So Jesus can’t be God as there are so many others did like him even much more.

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You're oversight is in the context and its meaning. Jesus was not a son of God, but the Son of God. The fact that He claimed the title for Himself means that it meant something more than just "child of the promise."

Why do you think they called Him Son of Man also? Aren't we all sons and daughters of men? Why bother pointing that out? It's because of this truth: Jesus is both God and man.

Usama.Egyptian said:

The hung on the wood happened around 4 times within the whole bible and the 4 cases were all punishments for disbelievers to put them under the curse of God. It was the worst worst punishment ever that was done by jewish kings and prophets.


Now you telling me “the bible says he would be cursed”
My brother for God sake where is your mind ?
Where is your just judge ?
Where is your goodness inside you ?
God will curse himself ? !
How it could be ? GOD BY HIS GLORY AND HIGNESS will curse himself and let some jews and Romans to spit on him ?
Does this God deserve to be worshiped as he curses himself ?

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As was already pointed out, Christ's death on the cross was the fulfillment of scriptures. It was God Himself paying the price of our sins, which He did for two reasons:

1. Because He knew that we could never repay our debt. But being full of mercy, God would offer us forgiveness.

2. God is just, and every sin must be dealt with. Unpaid sin meant Hell and eternal separation from God. God paid our debt for us.

Usama.Egyptian said:

First of all God will not compare him with a human ever ?
Never happened in the whole holy bible that God compared himself with a human ?
Why Jesus compared himself with Abraham ? because he is a human like him
And read the verse carefully , what is talking about ?
About existence and being ,, then Jesus should compare himself with Adam it would be much bigger and harder cause Adam is even before Abraham, you may answer me it’s because of the context and Jews were proud of Abraham, I will answer you is that Jesus should not compare himself at all with a human cause God never did this at all, but because he is a human he compared himself with a human like him.
Another challenge , give me one Only One single verse that God compared himself with a human in the whole holy bible !!!!
I am 100% sure, you will find null .. none .. zero .. nothing
And it’s not only my challenge but believe me God himself challenging you
If you can answer:
To whom then will you compare me, that I should be like him? says the Holy One. Isaiah 40:25
Answer if you can ..

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You're avoiding the issue. The fact is that Jesus called Himself God. He knew, and everyone around Him understood it. If He meant something else, He would have corrected them, but He was telling the truth. Jesus is God.

Usama.Egyptian said:

The whole old testament which is considered to be the tourah confirming that each soul shall bear its own sins
I didn’t understand your point in that paragraph, please explain cause u are talking so mysterious. Please be so clear and straight to the point.

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As I said, the point of the law was that we cannot pay the debt of our own sins. But the verse you're speaking of is one showing God's justice, that He would not blame one man for the sins of another. It doesn't say that no man is allowed to make himself a substitute, sacrificing himself for the sins of another.

In fact, the nature of sacrifice in the Old Testament is making an animal the substitute for oneself, just as Jesus did later for us. Unlike the animal, however, Jesus' sacrifice was final.

Usama.Egyptian said:

You know and I know also that in English to add pride and highness while talking you may use “we” and many kings before used the word “ we “ in their speechs.
That’s one point and it’s so so true and clear
The other point let us take it verbally as “we” just for assuming
Now you are requested to explain this to us :
Habakkuk 1:12
Are you not from everlasting, O LORD my God, my Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD,

If you are taking it verbally then God said “ we shall not die”
That means God lied because jesus died for 3 days if the text was “ we shall not die except for 3 days” I will totally believe it but the text made no exceptions .. it’s a fact that will never change
Waiting your explanation..

I will be back later to comment on the rest of your comments.
Peace be with you my brother and all of you

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Within the context of this passage, you can see what Habakkuk meant. God is everlasting, and He will never leave us. No one can kill our God. And this is true. God has always been around, and He always will remain. No one can kill Him.

But Jesus came to make Himself a sacrifice. He came for the purpose of dying. Yet, even while He was in the grave, the Father in Heaven was still alive. The fact that Jesus' rose from the dead is another sign for the fulfillment of scripture, because the grave could not keep Him. Jesus even has authority over the grave.

Now, can you explain to me your interpretation of the prophet Isaiah, who, unlike Habakkuk, spoke directly of the Son of God?

Isaiah 9:6 - For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

OP - you do not rightly divide Scripture. You have also gone from asking questions, to preaching your own agenda. That's really not the purpose of this sub-forum.

We worship Jesus because He is worthy!

"And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; (Rev 5:12) Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever."

May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ give you revelation in the knowledge of Him ...

Because He is God.

In Revelation this ties Jehovah and Jesus being the same:
Go to Rev 1:8-Who said I'm the first and the last? Jehovah did.
Now read Rev 22:12-16. In 16-I'm Jesus it states.

Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/
Can you keep the 10 commandments 100% of the time all the time? So, have you ever lied or steal something or break any of these commandments once in your life? If the answer is yes-than you are guilty. We are all guilty. Only Jesus kept these.

It's like this. God is a righteous Judge and His justice needs to be satisfied by having a penalty paid for our sins.

The only way that debt could be paid is 2 ways; if we pay it ourselves by suffering eternal separation from God or if God provided a substitute who had no sin debt of His own to take our penalty on the cross.

Usama.Egyptian said:

so the question now is " why you worship Jesus ? "

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It’s about trying to establish the Kingdom of God on Earth. It’s not about being impressed with his miracles or putting him on the pedestal he deserves; even though those things may by where some of the worship comes from. The reason we worship him, is to take away the power from the earthly tyrants, that seek control over us by dividing and pitting us against our fellow man. Serving a spiritual king, that can’t oppress or seek power over us, is a way to take the power away from the tyrants, we currently serve.

It's getting rid of tyrants that allow for the establishment of the Kingdom, which leads to eternal life and the resurrection of the dead. That is why worship Jesus as our king.