Why wouldn't someone be saved?

[Nord Christian]

Brother, I'm in the same boat as you. I've been struggling with this addiction too and it's caused me and my relationship with Christ to be tested alot...

But I'm trying and that's really what I would say you should do..
The advice I've gotten I'll try my best to pass onto you.

First off, are you saved? Well this is hard to tell at first but here's a couple of things you can check to see. Do you Love God? Do you want to obey him? Do you accept Him and His truth? Do you believe Jesus by grace through faith is the only way of justification? If so, there's a really good chance you are saved or at the absolute least being called...

Now if you are saved... congratulations you have been forgiven all past, present, and future sins... as scripture says "There is no longer condemnation by the Law for those under Grace"(not exact quote but that's what it means)

Now, never forget that...no matter what you do he'll forgive.
You didn't do anything to earn your salvation, you can't sin too much to lose it either, if you could that would mean you need to be good to stay saved, which means something other then faith in Jesus would save, which means the Bible is inconsistent, which would mean... well, you see my point right? That's obviously not the case (Thank God).

The only things that would make you unsaved(as far as I'm aware) Is Blaspheming the Holy Spirit, Trusting in something other than Christ, or flat out rejecting Christ and His gift...

We will all continue to struggle with sin but as long as your sorry, and confess and ask God for forgiveness, and continue to try and serve Him, "He is faithfull to forgive us all unrighteousness"

I HIGHLY recommend reading the book of Romans, Paul explains a lot about salvation and life after being saved (even explaining his own struggles with sin)

I will pray for you on this journey, I hope you , in turn, will pray for me.

Your definitely not alone in this, even if I'm the only other one struggling with you (and I'm not the only one) your not alone... feel free to pm me if you ever have questions.

-The Lowest Servant

Thanks a lot for your info and story, BR!

Today I just deleted a whole number of vids I had on my hard drive. I've done this before, only not long after going back to download them again.

Do I love God, yes. Do I want to obey and the other things you mentioned, yes. Can I with absolute assurance, tell you I'll never fantasize over porn again? I wish I could!

I watched a Dr. Stanley video today on the In Touch website. He explains that if we're truly saved, we are going to want to turn from our sins. We won't try to rationalize that what we are doing is ok. That there is a penalty for sin, even for the saved, minus of course going to hell after
we die.

If you or anyone is interested, he's his latest sermon:

This Week on TV

I will pray for you as well, my friend. It is indeed a struggle! I'll also PM you in a while.

 

[Nord Christian]

Having struggling with porn twice in my life I know how this sin affects the mind. It wasn't until several months ago I finally quit. I suffered through sever insomnia and was humbled by it to the point where I just said enough I'm not doing this before. Because of that I drew closer to God then I was before and now want to get into the Ministry side of the equation.

It's a hard addiction to break. The only thing I can tell you is pray to God to give you the strength to beat his addiction,talk to family and friends,go to the Mens Pornography Addiction forum and maybe talk to a Pastor.

By the way I said a prayer for you for God to help you with this awful addiction.

Thank you so much, James!

The last time I gave in was about three to four days ago. I had been tempted a couple of times after, but through Almighty God, I was able to
not give in to the temptation.

As the days gradually go by, and I'm a person who's in a lot, recooperating from a back injury, I'm hoping I won't give into that old saying "idle hands are the devil's workshop", which I actually believe is true.

If my own sinful nature and Satan keep hitting me with it, I know God is the only one who can help me. In those times, I know I'll have to start to find some way to get it off my mind. The visualizations of illicit sex can really tempt the crap out of you. Reading the Bible, playing a video game. Anything to help resist against temptation.

 

[Basil the Great]

Nord - My great grandfather lived with us for a few months before he died. He was probably the most devout Christian that I have ever known and not that it matters, but he was a Baptist. I recall asking him if God would forgive us if we keep doing the same sin over and over again. He told me "no", that a time would come when God would not forgive the same habitual sin. Now I hasten to add that I told this story to his daughter, my great aunt, many years later. She was also a Baptist and quite devout. She responded by saying that she did not believe that her father's position was in accord with the Scriptures.

I am not sure where Great Grampa got his belief or why he told such to myself, a ten year-old boy. Did he really believe what he said and if so, I wonder where he got such a narrow position? He did grow up as a Methodist in the late 1800's and only became a Baptist when he married Great Grama. His maternal grandparents were raised as Mennonites, so maybe his very strict views came from them? It should be noted that his position was pretty much in accord with what Christians believed in the early days of the Church. They were extremely strict and for a while, it was apparently common practice to allow the forgiveness of only one grave sin after Baptism and it seems very unlikely that habitual sin would have been accepted for long in the Early Church.

I don't know. I doubt that Great Grampa was right, but if his stance is correct, then millions of Christians are in serious trouble. I suppose one can make a case for him being right, in the sense that if we fall into habitual sin for years, is our confession and repentance really sincere? Perhaps this is where Great Grampa was coming from when he said that there could be a limit to God's forgiveness?

 

[Avid]

Originally Posted by Basil the Great

... I am not sure where Great Grampa got his belief or why he told such to myself, a ten year-old boy. Did he really believe what he said and if so, I wonder where he got such a narrow position?
​

These scripture passages may be where he got his understanding.

Numbers 15
30 ¶ But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Deuteronomy 17
12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

Romans 6
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


​

It would be prudent to look carefully at what you suggest here.

Originally Posted by Basil the Great

... if his stance is correct, then millions of Christians are in serious trouble...
​

It is for this very reason I suggested great books from centuries ago. It is between each of us and God as to what will become of us. We cannot pass that off lightly. We must take these things seriously.

II Peter 1
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: ​

 

[Avid]

... It should be noted that his position was pretty much in accord with what Christians believed in the early days of the Church...

Consider reading the following sermon:

A Warning to Professors
Or
The GREAT GUILT OF THOSE WHO ATTEND
ON THE ORDINANCES OF DIVINE WORSHIP,
AND YET ALLOW THEMSELVES
IN ANY KNOWN WICKEDNESS

by Jonathan Edwards
​

http://achristianspirit.com/Wicked.html

Seems to be more spiritual understanding in just the title than in most sermons anyone hears these days.

 

[James Is Back]

Thank you so much, James!

You're welcome. Glory to God for that. Also glad to see you are on the road to quitting this addiction. Keep it up and don't give up. If you find yourself tempted pray to God to give you the strength to overcome it.

It's a tough addiction to fight but with God on your side anything is possible because with God everyone is possible.

 

[Nord Christian]

Nord - My great grandfather lived with us for a few months before he died. He was probably the most devout Christian that I have ever known and not that it matters, but he was a Baptist. I recall asking him if God would forgive us if we keep doing the same sin over and over again. He told me "no", that a time would come when God would not forgive the same habitual sin. Now I hasten to add that I told this story to his daughter, my great aunt, many years later. She was also a Baptist and quite devout. She responded by saying that she did not believe that her father's position was in accord with the Scriptures.

I am not sure where Great Grampa got his belief or why he told such to myself, a ten year-old boy. Did he really believe what he said and if so, I wonder where he got such a narrow position? He did grow up as a Methodist in the late 1800's and only became a Baptist when he married Great Grama. His maternal grandparents were raised as Mennonites, so maybe his very strict views came from them? It should be noted that his position was pretty much in accord with what Christians believed in the early days of the Church. They were extremely strict and for a while, it was apparently common practice to allow the forgiveness of only one grave sin after Baptism and it seems very unlikely that habitual sin would have been accepted for long in the Early Church.

I don't know. I doubt that Great Grampa was right, but if his stance is correct, then millions of Christians are in serious trouble. I suppose one can make a case for him being right, in the sense that if we fall into habitual sin for years, is our confession and repentance really sincere? Perhaps this is where Great Grampa was coming from when he said that there could be a limit to God's forgiveness?

I'm not a Pastor, or profess to know it all. There are some pointing out scripture, and saying you've got to stop giving in to the same habitual sin/sins to be saved. Others are saying, once saved, always saved. Lord
Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross, and whomever believes in him will
be saved.

I know during your Great Grandfather's time, there was a lot of preachers
with this hell and damnation mentality. Yes I believe in hell, satan, the other fallen angels that fell with him, and that not everyone made it to Heaven.

We all know we can't be perfect. We're going to give into sin, due to our fallen nature we received from Adam and Eve. And having Satan and his other fallen ones throwing temptation, and influencing us to disobey God, doesn't make it any easier for us either.

I've never been baptized by water. And there are some saying it's vital I get baptized. Others saying it's nor required for salvation. It's basically a welcoming into Christianity, and is sort of like a exorcism ritual.

It's not that I don't want to get baptized. I just hadn't gotten around to it.

 

[Avid]

Nord, The wonderful thing about the true gift of salvation is Jesus covers the past, present and future sins to all who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and follow him in baptism...

Mike,
It would be helpful to all of us to have a scripture passage that shows this doctrine.

Thanks,
Avid

 

[Avid]

... It needs to be clear cut, too. It needs to be done under someone who is trained and well discipled himself.

Good advice!

It helped me to have someone who had understanding and a disciplined life to show me I was not living right, and that I did not understand the scriptures.

I had been told wrong things all my life in Church. I needed a significant amount of time to UNLEARN these things.

 

[CrossDrivenWriter]

Mike,
It would be helpful to all of us to have a scripture passage that shows this doctrine.

Thanks,
Avid

The book of Hebrews basically covers this fact. It spends a substantial amount of time making the case that the Old Covenant sacrificial system wasn't good enough, because it couldn't finally defeat sin. It only covered it up and had to be done again and again, to no avail. The blood of goats could not take away the sins of man.

"14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."- Hebrews 10: 14

Fortunately for us, we now have a Great High Priest who is far greater than the Levitical Priesthood in every way.

Nord, Brothers and Sisters, anyone who struggles with sin certainly isn't alone. Even the Apostle Paul admitted to it.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


-Romans 7:14-25

Romans 7 goes into detail about this phenomenon, and in short, it comes down to the want. The lost man loves sin. He doesn't hate it, he can't have enough of it. Give him one porn magazine and he'll want a dozen more to satisfy his appetite, and he certainly won't feel bad about it.

Contrast Paul's situation, one I know all of us can empathize with. You might have said something or done something evil, and you can't understand why you did it. You hate that you did it, and you just don't understand. You want know God, you want to be close to his heart and keep his laws, but you just can't 100% of the time, regardless of how hard you try.

That's what the sin nature in you is about. If you could follow God's law, Christ would never have had to die. Even now you're still born into sin.You may be justified, but you're still being made holy. Salvation is once and for all, but sanctification is a process. No amount of failure will make that legal declaration go away.

 

[Nord Christian]

Good advice!

It helped me to have someone who had understanding and a disciplined life to show me I was not living right, and that I did not understand the scriptures.

I had been told wrong things all my life in Church. I needed a significant amount of time to UNLEARN these things.

But Avid, I'm getting the impression you are of the belief that we must live sinless lives, or we're not saved.

If true, even if putting on the whole armor of God, does Satan not get through the cracks at times? Never get angry or upset, or have an indecent thought?

My understanding is that God understands we cannot be perfect. Lord Jesus went to the cross and paid the price we deserve to pay, but that as mere mortal men and women, Heavenly Father God and Lord Jesus knew we could not do it ourselves.

Do I believe by reading and learning about scripture we can be a lot less sinful, with the help of God, Lord Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
I do, absolutely! Being absolutely sinless until the the end of leaving our physical realm, and going into Heaven, I can't see that being a possibility.

On Earth Satan still has enough power with his other fallen ones to get through. Not happy about it, but until one reaches Heaven, I can't see how we can be fully immune to satanic attacks.

 

[Bluelion]

Nord you must surrender to God, you must try if you love God and others that is enough. Those who fall away and never come back were never said in the first place. A child of God will always come back, As Jesus said my Sheep know my voice and obey.

They come when they are called.

You will sin get back up and try again, you will stumble keep on walking. God does not expect you to be perfect yet for it is impossible you have sin living in side you. You will not be perfect until God gives you your new body. But Jesus said be perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect. Why? he meant become as much like God here on earth as you can, to follow after Jesus and do what He does, In other words keep trying. Jesus knows you can not do what He did or else he would not have had to do it, but He does expect you to try and keep trying. We are learning here to serve God while we can still be imperfect. When the race is finish you will not sin any more, you will have a body which can not sin. DId you get that, doesn't sound like free will does it? that is because you gave it up when you chose God. You said you will do God's will not your own. You used your free will, you fulfilled its purpose just as Jesus fulfilled the Law, is the Law Gone, has it change, no, but our relationship to it has. Get it?

see the truth and be free, those who The Son set free are free indeed.

 

[Bluelion]

my children will do wrong some times I still expect them to do right always, but I know they will make mistakes. My expectation does not change, children are by blood they will always be my children. If blood can make a child always a son of there father what do you think by Spirit can do? But my sons are not mine by blood or marriage they are mine because I except them as my sons and they except me as there dad. The Spirit of it and that will never change. Now I being a wicked man can form a Spiritual bond with my Children which will not be broke unless God breaks it, how much more so can The Perfect living God form a unbreakable bond with His children? If God calls you His child and you call Him Father nothing in Heaven earth or below will ever break that apart. Nothing is stronger than God.

 

[Nord Christian]

Nord you must surrender to God, you must try if you love God and others that is enough. Those who fall away and never come back were never said in the first place. A child of God will always come back, As Jesus said my Sheep know my voice and obey.

They come when they are called.

You will sin get back up and try again, you will stumble keep on walking. God does not expect you to be perfect yet for it is impossible you have sin living in side you. You will not be perfect until God gives you your new body. But Jesus said be perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect. Why? he meant become as much like God here on earth as you can, to follow after Jesus and do what He does, In other words keep trying. Jesus knows you can not do what He did or else he would not have had to do it, but He does expect you to try and keep trying. We are learning here to serve God while we can still be imperfect. When the race is finish you will not sin any more, you will have a body which can not sin. DId you get that, doesn't sound like free will does it? that is because you gave it up when you chose God. You said you will do God's will not your own. You used your free will, you fulfilled its purpose just as Jesus fulfilled the Law, is the Law Gone, has it change, no, but our relationship to it has. Get it?

see the truth and be free, those who The Son set free are free indeed.

Thanks for your info, BL! A person can get interpretations on here from different people, and people like myself who have only been Christians for a relatively short time, can get a little confused at times.

 

[Avid]

... We all know we can't be perfect...

... "14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."- Hebrews 10: 14

It seems the doctrine is not in agreement with itself. We hear this all the time, and the scriptures are taken to mean what they do not say in order to support it.

 

[Avid]

But Avid, I'm getting the impression you are of the belief that we must live sinless lives, or we're not saved...

I am trying to show you the truth from the Bible, and you are bringing in things I did not say to disprove the scripture. You should quote me saying this if you intend to get anywhere in the discussion.

My understanding is that God understands we cannot be perfect...

I know you think this, but have yet to provide scripture that supports your point.

Try believing the scriptures of the Word of God. It will take you far in the very area for which you are here asking for help.

 

[JLR1300]

Mike,
It would be helpful to all of us to have a scripture passage that shows this doctrine.

Thanks,
Avid

One thing I know for sure... if Jesus didn't die for our future sins then that means that if you ever sin in the future you absolutely cannot be forgiven.

 

[Avid]

One thing I know for sure... if Jesus didn't die for our future sins then that means that if you ever sin in the future you absolutely cannot be forgiven.

I am not making a judgment upon the statement, but only asking for some scriptural backing for something so widely believed, and so broadly depended upon for a status with the Almighty God.

Do you have a scripture that states this? That is what is important. Not so much that you believe something, but is what you believe straight from the LORD?

 

[Nord Christian]

I am trying to show you the truth from the Bible, and you are bringing in things I did not say to disprove the scripture. You should quote me saying this if you intend to get anywhere in the discussion.


I know you think this, but have yet to provide scripture that supports your point.

Try believing the scriptures of the Word of God. It will take you far in the very area for which you are here asking for help.

I wasn't implying anything that would disprove scripture. I want to know the true meanings of all the written scripture. Still It's your interpretation and then another person's interpretation etc.

Salvation is a free gift of God, for whomever believes in Lord Jesus Christ, what he did here on earth. That he performed the miracles he did while here. Was crucified on the cross by the Romans. He then rose from death three days later, to ascend into the Kingdom of Heaven to be with the Father" (Almighty God)

Romans 10: 8-13

 

[Avid]

I wasn't implying anything that would disprove scripture. I want to know the true meanings of all the written scripture. Still It's your interpretation and then another person's interpretation etc.

If you ignore the scriptures, because you like what someone said about one other passages, you do yourself a disservice. I am trying to get you - someone asking for understanding - to seek it from the same place I found a great deal of what I learned.

I have shown scripture, and suggested good books. The second best book in the English language was written by the person I first suggested you read from. It was a book that has been called the first novel.

You may call the book I am talking about, a road map of the Christian Journey to Heaven. Here is a man that spent 12 years in jail for preaching without a license, and God used his persecution to bless all of us. Don't let such a great resource lie untapped by you.

http://www.achristianspirit.com/PilgrimsProgress.html

T H E
Pilgrim's Progress
From
T H I S W O R L D
T O
That which is to Come;
Delivered under the similitude of a
D R E A M,
Wherein is Discovered
The Manner of his setting out,
His Dangerous J O U R N E Y,
A N D
Safe Arrival at the Desired Country.


By . J O H N . B U N Y A N .
​

L O N D O N, 1678
​

I have almost memorized certain parts of this (25 or 30 years ago) and it gives me strength and direction often. See this first few lines:

CHAPTER 1
​

As I walked through the wilderness of this world, I lighted on a certain place where was a den (the gaol - jail), and I laid me down in that place to sleep: and as I slept, I dreamed a dream... ​

Yes, he wrote this book in JAIL.