Why would someone die for something they know to be a lie?

[Harlan Norris]

Yesterday I was listening to thehousefm.com and they have this segmant where they talk about the Christian martyrs past and present (OH man there are so many of them) and one story that caught my attention was the way Bartholomew died. Bartholomew was Jesus' own disciple so he would know FIRST HAND if Jesus has actually died and raised again or not. Yet, he went to a lot of places preaching the Gospal, when he was preaching in Armenia, the king's bro became Christian. Furious he commanded Bartholomew to worship their pagan God. When he refused to do so, the king had him be whipped and crucified. The whole time he called out Jesus' name until finally they had his head cut off. This story was so touching to me that I went and did a little more research on how the others died, I knew John was the only one who died of old age even though he was thrown in a pit of boiling oil and then exiled, and Peter demanded he be crucified upside down because he felt he was not worthy to die the same way his Saviour did. Here is an article I found. God Bless you. Have an AWESOME day! =D

The Martyrdom of the Apostles

by Grant R. Jeffrey (from his book "The Signature of God")


Some atheists have suggested that the disciples, during the decades following His death, simply invented their accounts of Jesus. These Bible critics say that the disciples, in an attempt to enhance His authority, then published the story that Jesus claimed to be God and was resurrected. Any fair-minded reader should consider the historical evidence. First, the apostles were continually threatened and pressured to deny their Lord during their ministry; especially as they faced torture and martyrdom. However, none of these men who spent time with Jesus chose to save their lives by denying their faith in Him. Consider this hypothetical situation: Suppose these men had conspired to form a new religion based on their imagination. How long would anyone continue to proclaim something they knew was a lie when faced with lengthy tortures and an inescapable, painful death? All they had to do to escape martyrdom was to admit they had concocted a lie and simply deny their faith and claims about Jesus as God. It defies both common sense and the evidence of history that anyone, let alone a group of twelve men, would persist in proclaiming a lie when they could walk away by admitting that it was a fraud.

Yet, history reveals that not one of these men, who knew Jesus personally, ever denied their testimony about Him despite the threat and reality of imminent death. This proves to any fair-minded observer that these men possessed an absolute unshakable personal knowledge about the truth of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Each of the apostles were called upon to pay the ultimate price to prove their faith in Jesus, affirming with their life's blood that Jesus was the true Messiah, the Son of God, and the only hope of salvation for a sinful humanity.

Most of our information about the deaths of the apostles is derived from early church traditions. While tradition is unreliable as to small details, it very seldom contains outright inventions. Eusebius, the most important of the early church historians wrote his history of the early church in A.D. 325. He wrote, "The apostles and disciples of the Savior scattered over the whole world, preached the Gospel everywhere." The Church historian Schumacher researched the lives of the apostles and recounted the history of their martyrdoms.

Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, killed by a sword wound.

Mark died in Alexandria, Egypt, after being dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.

Luke was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous preaching to the lost.

John faced martyrdom when he was boiled in a huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos. The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve as Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey. He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully.

Peter was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross, according to church tradition because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die in the same way that Jesus Christ had died.

James the Just, the leader of the church in Jerusalem, was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller's club. This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.

James the Greater, a son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was ultimately beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, the officer walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.

Bartholomew, also know as Nathanael, was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed to our Lord in present day Turkey. Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia when he was flayed to death by a whip. (more info on him on top)

Andrew was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: "I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it." He continued to preach to his tormentors for two days until he expired.

The apostle Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the subcontinent. (In Tamil Nadu, Thomas Mountain)

Jude, the brother of Jesus, was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.

Matthias, the apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and then beheaded.

Barnabas, one of the group of seventy disciples, wrote the Epistle of Barnabas. He preached throughout Italy and Cyprus. Barnabas was stoned to death at Salonica.
The apostle Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.

The details of the martyrdoms of the disciples and apostles are found in traditional early church sources. These traditions were recounted in the writings of the church fathers and the first official church history written by the historian Eusebius in A.D. 325. Although we can not at this time verify every detail historically, the universal belief of the early Christian writers was that each of the apostles had faced martyrdom faithfully without denying their faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Reference: Jeffrey, Grant R., "The Signature of God", Frontier Research Publications, Inc. (1996), p.254-257 Grant Jeffrey's book "The Signature of God" can be ordered from
GRANT R. JEFFREY MINISTRIES

great post,I'll agree!!

 

[Skaloop]

Thats one of the differences between Islam and christianity.
Muslims are ready to die and to kill for Allah.
Christians are ready to die but not kill for Jesus.

The Crusades.
The Inquisition.
Abortion Centre Bombings.

Christians have long been willing to kill in Jesus's name.

Of course, not all of them. But it's the same with Muslims; some kill for Allah, but most do not, and are as peaceful as most Christians. Neither religion is any more righteous than the other, and neither is immune from being used as justification for negative acts.

 

[HoustonHorn]

That he was not in fact dead when they put him in.

Or He never existed and the Bible is a series of lessons, much like Aesop's fables.

Asking for the most likely explanation won't lead to any religious explanation to somebody not already caught up in that religion.

However, sometimes you find really zealotous Christians who act / think in a totally different way.

Fred Phelps

People, honestly read "The Case for Christ" Awesome book!

Did you just finish reading it? That's the third time you've mentioned that book. I'm actually intending to read it at some point, but I've got several others that I want to read as well.

I can't think of the title off-hand, but there's a book written that directly refutes Case for Christ. Anybody here read it (or remember what it's called)? It's on my to-read list as well.

Thats one of the differences between Islam and christianity.
Muslims are ready to die and to kill for Allah.
Christians are ready to die but not kill for Jesus.

That's absurdly offensive. That's along the same lines as saying all Christians are protesting military funerals because Fred Phelps (admittedly a whack job) is doing so.

 

[a1000smiles]

Did you just finish reading it? That's the third time you've mentioned that book. I'm actually intending to read it at some point, but I've got several others that I want to read as well.

No I didnt just finish the book lol...but its a GREAT book for info that would be too long to discuss here. Its easier recommending a book than writing it all down by hand. lol. =D

 

[a1000smiles]

That he was not in fact dead when they put him in.

SO not accurate... I even did an entry on this. Do read...he was in fact dead when they placed him in the tomb!

Here is part of an interview with Alexander Metherell, M.D., PH.D. I had to fast fwd a lot…lol…but believe me the reactions for the pearson telling it and listening were..owwefied! wat ur about to read is TOTALLY historically correct about wat really happen to Jesus and its PAINFUL! This is wat Jesus went through for us so our sins can we wiped CLEAN!

“…It began after the Last Supper, Jesus went with his disciples to the Mount of Olives – specifically to the garden of Gethsemane. And there as you remember, he prayed all night…I raised my hand to stop him. “Whoa – here’s where skeptics have a field day. The gospels tell us he began to sweat blood at this point. Now c’mon, isn’t that a product of some overactive imagination?” Metherell shook his head. “Not at all, this is a known medical condition called hematidrosis. It’s not very common, but it is associated with a high degree of psychological stress. What happens is that severe anxiety causes the release of chemicals that break down the capillaries in the sweat glands. As a result, there’s a small amount of bleeding in these glands, and the sweat comes out tinged with blood. We are not talking about a lot of blood; its jus a very, small amount. What this did was set up the skin to be extremely fragile so that when Jesus was flogged by the Roman soldier the next day, his skin would be very, very sensitive.” “Tell me,” I said, “What was flogging like?” Metherell’s eyes never left me. “Roman floggings were known to be terribly brutal. They usually consisted of 39 lashes but frequently were lot more than that, depending on the mood of the soldier applying the blows. The soldier would use a whip of braided leather thongs with metal balls woven into them. When the whip would strike the flesh, these balls would cause deep bruises or contusions, which would break open with further blows. And the whip has pieces of sharp bone as well, which would cut the flesh severely. The back would be so shredded that the part of the spine was sometimes exposed by the deep, deep cuts. The whipping would have gone all the way from the shoulders down to the back, the buttocks, and the back of the legs. It was just terrible. One physician who has studied Roman beatings said, ‘As the flogging continued, the lacerations would tear into the underlying skeletal muscles and produce quivering ribbons of bleeding flesh’ A third century history Eusebius described flogging as ‘The sufferer’s veins were laid bare, and the very muscles, sinews, and bowels of the victim were open to exposure.’ “We know that many people would die from this kind of beating even before they could be crucified. At the least, the victim would experience tremendous pain and go into hypovolemic shock.” Hypo means ‘low volume emic means blood so hypovolemic shock means the person is suffering the effects of losing a large amount of blood. There are 4 things. 1st the heart races to pump blood that isn’t there, 2nd the blood pressure drops, causing fainting or collapse, 3rd the kidneys stop producing the urine to maintain what volume is left, 4th the person becomes very thirsty to replace the lost blood volume. Evidence for this for Jesus…Jesus was in hypovolemic shock as he staggered up the road to the execution site at Calvary, carrying the horizontal beam of the cross. Finally Jesus collapsed, and the Roman soldier ordered Simon to carry the cross for him. Later we read that Jesus said, ‘I thirst,’ at which point a sip of vinegar was offered to him. Because of the terrible effects of this beating, there’s no question that Jesus was already in serious to critical condition even before the nails were driven though his hands and feet.” “What happened when he arrived at the site of the Crucifixion?” “He would have been laid down, and his hands would have been nailed in the outstretched position to the horizontal beam. “Nailed with what?” I asked, “Nailed where?” “The Romans used spikes that were 5 to 7 inches long and tapered to a sharp point. They were driven through the wrists. “Hold on” I interrupted, “I thought the nails pierced his palms.” “Through the wrists, this was the solid position that would lock the hand, if the nails had been driven though the palms, his weight would have caused the skin to tear and he would have fallen off the cross. So the nails went through the wrists. Its important to understand that the nail would go through the place where the median nerve runs. This is the largest nerve going out of the hand, and it wold be crushed by the nail that was bring pounded in. The pain was absolutely unbearable. In fact it was literally beyond words to describe, they had to invent a new word: excruciating. It literally means “out of the cross” There was nothing in the language that could describe the intense anguish caused during the crucifixion. At this point Jesus was hoisted as the crossbar was attached to the vertical stake, and then nails were driven through Jesus’ feet. Again the nerves in his feet would have been crushed and there would be a similar type pain. His arms would have immediately been stretched, probably about 6 inches in length, and both shoulders would have become dislocated – you can determine this with simple mathematical equations. This fulfilled the Old Testiment prophecy in Psalm 22, which foretold the Crucifixion hundreds of years before it took place and says, ‘My bones are out of joint.’ Once a person is hanging in the vertical position, crucifixion is essentially an agonizing slow death by asphyxiation. (Long painful part…summery) They exhale and try to breath up and list their led up to ease the tension and the leg RIPS… this keeps going until complete exhaustion and pain takes over and the person cant push up and breath anymore. He goes into a respitory acidosis – the carbon dioxide in the blood is dissolved as carbonic acid, causing the asidity of the blood to increase. This eventually leads to irregular heartbeat. With his heart beating erratically, Jesus would have known he was at the moment of his death which is when he is able to say, “Lord into your hands I commit my spirit.” Then he died of cardiac arrest. Since none of his bones could be broken (prophesy) the spear the Roman soldier stabs him with goes through his right lung and into the heart. (He’s already dead) and blood and water comes out. This would have been the appearance of a clear fluid, like water, followed by a large volume of blood, as the eyewitness John described in his Gospal….

 

[Captivated]

That he was not in fact dead when they put him in.

I thought this might come up! So he was flogged to within an inch of his life, crucified (no-one needs to be reminded what that's like), a spear driven into his side, and all the witnesses, both pro- and anti-, perceive him to be dead. If it was possible to survive that it would still be enough to land anyone in intensive care for a long stay. Yet three days later he appears in surprisingly good health to numerous people. And he may have moved the grave stone out of the way himself. Doesn't sound likely to me.

Do people generally still believe that Jesus of Nazareth didn't exist, even if they think he was merely an historical figure?

 

[indianx]

Edited. The gist of my post had already been presented on the second page to no avail.