Why would Jesus..

[greeneyedgirl]

that supposedly died for our sins out of love, forgiveness, and compassion allow eight million children to be born each year with a serious genetic birth defect. And further more, why would he allow several hundred thousand or more children to suffer from the sins of their parents?

According to a new report, every year an estimated 8 million children are born with a serious birth defect of genetic or partially genetic origin.

The report from the March of Dimes says in addition hundreds of thousands more are born with serious birth defects of post-conception origin due to maternal exposure to environmental agents, such as alcohol, rubella, and syphilis.

Link to news source


And if that isn't enough to chew on, why would he allow 20,000 to 40,000 children to starve to death every single day?

Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God, that is also benevolent, willingly allow innocent children to suffer or, in many cases, die prematurely? God cannot be all powerful, all knowing, and have a passion to do good while also allowing the mass suffering of children.

And for the record, I don't buy into God works in mysterious ways either. That's such a cop out...Christians and Pastors alike love to teach what God wants, feels, needs, and expects out of us, but when they don't have a good explanation, they explain it with God works in mysterious ways.

 

[Dragons87]

God gives different people different gifts and different defects, so that you can do work with your gifts, and God can be glorified through your defects. If you've been blessed by God with a complete, healthy body, then you'll have to double your effort in using your body to glorify Him. If for some reason He didn't grant you a completely healthy body, then you will have other ways to glorify Him.

 

[Doppelganger]

God gives different people different gifts and different defects, so that you can do work with your gifts, and God can be glorified through your defects. If you've been blessed by God with a complete, healthy body, then you'll have to double your effort in using your body to glorify Him. If for some reason He didn't grant you a completely healthy body, then you will have other ways to glorify Him.

Such as feeding his need for souls? That doesn't really answer the question regarding the children that perish at a very young age. e.g. 8 days! How can they glorify the Creator at that young age?

 

[Dragons87]

Such as feeding his need for souls? That doesn't really answer the question regarding the children that perish at a very young age. e.g. 8 days! How can they glorify the Creator at that young age?

The value of the life is not in the life itself, but not the impact of the life to another.

Perhaps the parents will be shocked into questioning the meaning of life, which could ultimately lead them to become Christians?

Maybe the baby is abandoned, and dies as a result of negligence. Society would be appalled by this and pressure the government for better social services, thus benefitting other people?

Everything that happens in the world ultimately works towards God's ultimate plan. There literally is no escape.

 

[Doppelganger]

The value of the life is not in the life itself, but not the impact of the life to another.

Perhaps the parents will be shocked into questioning the meaning of life, which could ultimately lead them to become Christians?

Maybe the baby is abandoned, and dies as a result of negligence. Society would be appalled by this and pressure the government for better social services, thus benefitting other people?

Everything that happens in the world ultimately works towards God's ultimate plan. There literally is no escape.

That is if you choose to believe in the "ultimate plan." The faiths of the family members of the 12 miners were put to the test when they rejoiced at the news of their safe return, only to find out that only one survived.

The loss of my children would not make me turn to God. If anything, it would push me further away from whatever shred of a belief I hold.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

that supposedly died for our sins out of love, forgiveness, and compassion allow eight million children to be born each year with a serious genetic birth defect. And further more, why would he allow several hundred thousand or more children to suffer from the sins of their parents?




Link to news source


And if that isn't enough to chew on, why would he allow 20,000 to 40,000 children to starve to death every single day?

Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God, that is also benevolent, willingly allow innocent children to suffer or, in many cases, die prematurely? God cannot be all powerful, all knowing, and have a passion to do good while also allowing the mass suffering of children.

And for the record, I don't buy into God works in mysterious ways either. That's such a cop out...Christians and Pastors alike love to teach what God wants, feels, needs, and expects out of us, but when they don't have a good explanation, they explain it with God works in mysterious ways.

Mans choices aren't God's fault. Who choses to do evil, who freely harms others? Man. God gave us choices and we face the consequences of that. Yes, sometimes innocent people are harmed by MAN's chocies. It's not God's fault. God isn't someone you can blame when things aren't 100% perfect. We are in a wicked messed up world full of selfish people. People's choices most certainly aren't God's fault.

 

[Caylin]

The value of the life is not in the life itself, but not the impact of the life to another.

Perhaps the parents will be shocked into questioning the meaning of life, which could ultimately lead them to become Christians?

Maybe the baby is abandoned, and dies as a result of negligence. Society would be appalled by this and pressure the government for better social services, thus benefitting other people?

Everything that happens in the world ultimately works towards God's ultimate plan. There literally is no escape.

So a couple of people changing religons is worth more than a human life?

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Mans choices aren't God's fault. Who choses to do evil, who freely harms others? Man. God gave us choices and we face the consequences of that. Yes, sometimes innocent people are harmed by MAN's chocies. It's not God's fault. God isn't someone you can blame when things aren't 100% perfect. We are in a wicked messed up world full of selfish people. People's choices most certainly aren't God's fault.

Some genetic defects are the product of choices the woman makes during pregnancy, but many are not. They are simply unfortunate occurences that happen in a regular percentage of the population. It's blind malevolence against these newborns, plain and simple.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Some genetic defects are the product of choices the woman makes during pregnancy, but many are not. They are simply unfortunate occurences that happen in a regular percentage of the population. It's blind malevolence against these newborns, plain and simple.

So you think the Lord is purposefully harming people? Does not His word say He loves people and wants them to live? It does. It's not God's fault. You also have to factor in man's actions, pollution, living conditions, etc.......all of which man played a part in and lead to and caused.

 

[Jacob4Jesus]

Why would Jesus allow me to suffer with a serious mental disorder? Why would he allow me to be homeless for eight months.

Regardless of whether he has allowed these things or not, he has shown me that he is with me while I deal with them on my own. I don't believe it's Jesus' place to make all my problems go away. I learn to live and deal with them and that's great.

So, what about people who starve to death and have defects and there's no one to help them? There's many people and countries in this world that can help them. We're all capable of it, and I think it's more important for us to come together some way and help the people of the world than expect Jesus to just do it for us.

What does that teach us if God handled every problem for us? Nothing.

 

[Mr. QWERTY]

I personally do not believe in the existence of god. However, if I did...

So you think the Lord is purposefully harming people?

Yes. It is obvious that (if god were to exist) he harms people. Not all things can be dropped at the door of illusory free will. Can you honestly say that Hurrican Katrina or the asian tsunami did not harm people? By your own reasoning there were many people in Thailand who were not christians. The tsunami killed them, removing any chance of salvation from them, so they are now doomed to die. In what way is this not harm?

Does not His word say He loves people and wants them to live? It does. It's not God's fault. You also have to factor in man's actions, pollution, living conditions, etc.......all of which man played a part in and lead to and caused.

Actions speak louder than words. People die needlessly all the time. I attribute it to the randomness of an uncaring universe. If there was a god, I would be forced to attribute it to god, as he would have created the universe and set it into motion so as to end up where we are now.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

I personally do not believe in the existence of god. However, if I did...



Yes. It is obvious that (if god were to exist) he harms people. Not all things can be dropped at the door of illusory free will. Can you honestly say that Hurrican Katrina or the asian tsunami did not harm people? By your own reasoning there were many people in Thailand who were not christians. The tsunami killed them, removing any chance of salvation from them, so they are now doomed to die. In what way is this not harm?



Actions speak louder than words. People die needlessly all the time. I attribute it to the randomness of an uncaring universe. If there was a god, I would be forced to attribute it to god, as he would have created the universe and set it into motion so as to end up where we are now.

No one is promised tomorrow, that's even in the Bible. However, the time we do have we have the chance to get saved and accept christ and lead others to Him. People have to do their part. God won't do everything, we do have choices and responsiblities.

He created the universe w/ laws. If He were to intervene in every little thing, we would't know what to expect. One minute we'd be floating and the next as heavy as a car because God would be manipulating it so much just to save every little person and prevent everything. That's not life. It's not made like that. You are supposed to do what you ought in the time you've got.

 

[Mr. QWERTY]

No one is promised tomorrow, that's even in the Bible. However, the time we do have we have the chance to get saved and accept christ and lead others to Him. People have to do their part. God won't do everything, we do have choices and responsiblities.

He created the universe w/ laws. If He were to intervene in every little thing, we would't know what to expect. One minute we'd be floating and the next as heavy as a car because God would be manipulating it so much just to save every little person and prevent everything. That's not life. It's not made like that. You are supposed to do what you ought in the time you've got.

You are contradicting yourself and ignoring the evidence. For the contradicting, you have on several threads stated that you have personally seen miracles. Does this not qualify as god intervening with every little thing? How are your miracles different from another person's?

As far as intervening, do not be silly. I am not saying that god should have made the city of New Orleans suddenly float above the storm, or suddenly create a brick wall in Thailand to stop the tsunami. But he could have theoretically intervened in such a way that we would never have noticed. Did you know that 2005 was one of the biggest hurricane years ever? How come there could not have been one less? Say Katrina? As for the tsunami, they are caused by underground earthquakes. Why did god have to have one big earthquake causing a really big wave, rather than having 4 little earthquakes?

My answer is that he does not exist. An honest theist would have to answer because god kills people.

As for people and their time on earth, this is simply another example of how unjust god is. By your thoughts, it I had died when I was 17, I would have gone to heaven, as I was a devout christian. But now if I die, you think that I will go to hell. From your viewpoint, it would have been better if I had been hit by a car, or fallen off a ladder. Instead, god had me hang around long enough to be an atheist. Same thing for other people. Some people die young, others old. Some are christians in their youth, but not later. These are all signs as to how god could do better, but does not.

So, does god exist and do a bad job, or does he not exist, and these things are simply random?

 

[PastorMikeJ]

Why do we blame God for everything??? most birth defects are a result of our poluting our enviroment...poisoning our food, water and air...this causes birth defects, cancer and a wealth of other problems that we have...

But blaming God excuses us from having to take responsibility for our own actions..just like a majority of the people in the world do..everyone's fault except ours..

If we have problems with relationships its our parents fault intead of our own for being so wrapped up in ourselves..it is just so easy to blame God, parents, society, government etc...

If I am poor it is the rich peoples fault...if I get caught stealing it is the police's fault, the person I was stealing from fault for letting me see what it was I was stealing...

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

You are contradicting yourself and ignoring the evidence. For the contradicting, you have on several threads stated that you have personally seen miracles. Does this not qualify as god intervening with every little thing? How are your miracles different from another person's?

As far as intervening, do not be silly. I am not saying that god should have made the city of New Orleans suddenly float above the storm, or suddenly create a brick wall in Thailand to stop the tsunami. But he could have theoretically intervened in such a way that we would never have noticed. Did you know that 2005 was one of the biggest hurricane years ever? How come there could not have been one less? Say Katrina? As for the tsunami, they are caused by underground earthquakes. Why did god have to have one big earthquake causing a really big wave, rather than having 4 little earthquakes?

My answer is that he does not exist. An honest theist would have to answer because god kills people.

As for people and their time on earth, this is simply another example of how unjust god is. By your thoughts, it I had died when I was 17, I would have gone to heaven, as I was a devout christian. But now if I die, you think that I will go to hell. From your viewpoint, it would have been better if I had been hit by a car, or fallen off a ladder. Instead, god had me hang around long enough to be an atheist. Same thing for other people. Some people die young, others old. Some are christians in their youth, but not later. These are all signs as to how god could do better, but does not.

So, does god exist and do a bad job, or does he not exist, and these things are simply random?

God intervening in every little thing means what it says. Every little issue in the entire earth God intervening in it. Is that so? No. Miracles isn't EVERY little thing.

God doesn't have to intervene in everything. Plus, He knows and sees the big picture, unlike us, who don't even know tomorrow for sure. Is He not wiser? He is.


Who makes choices freely? Humans. God won't kill you as soon as you are saved. Sorry, that's not how life works. If that was so, no one would exists and those unsaved would have no witnesses. You walk the path....yes, and in that is the chance of falling away, but that is soley your decision.

He exists and does a good job and is higher. Just because you don't get it or it isn't to your standards (which are lower because, as all humans, you aren't all wise and aren't God), doesnt' make it a bad job, or that He doesn't exist.

 

[Mr. QWERTY]

God intervening in every little thing means what it says. Every little issue in the entire earth God intervening in it. Is that so? No. Miracles isn't EVERY little thing.

You were the one who started with every little thing. I mentioned one hurricane and one tsunami over the last 13 months.

God doesn't have to intervene in everything. Plus, He knows and sees the big picture, unlike us, who don't even know tomorrow for sure. Is He not wiser? He is.

Again, not everything. Just a hurricane and a tsunami. And the bible proves that god is not wiser than man. God messed up his own creation several times. He had to banish Adam and Eve from Eden. He had to flood the earth bc all people (save Noah & co) were hopelessly beyond redemption. He had to send JC to earth to die, bc that somehow makes it ok if you and I sin. That is messed up. I could do better if I were omnipotent. Therefore, the bible is proof that god is not wiser than man.

Who makes choices freely? Humans.

No, not really. Free will is an illusion and a joke, whether you are theistic or no. But that is another thread.

God won't kill you as soon as you are saved. Sorry, that's not how life works. If that was so, no one would exists and those unsaved would have no witnesses. You walk the path....yes, and in that is the chance of falling away, but that is soley your decision.

Not entirely my point. I was christian, then not. Others are not christian, then are. The only thing that matters is what they think at the moment of their death. Since this is chosen by god, he is obviously choosing to save some, and not others. Capricious, and cruel too, bc the ones that he decides not to save, he then burns for all future eternity. That is kind of mean.

He exists and does a good job and is higher. Just because you don't get it or it isn't to your standards (which are lower because, as all humans, you aren't all wise and aren't God), doesnt' make it a bad job, or that He doesn't exist.

These are your assertions and you have no proof for them. My standards are, I believe, higher than god's standards, as I at least try to be just and moral. God does not, and outright admits to being a jealous god.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

You were the one who started with every little thing. I mentioned one hurricane and one tsunami over the last 13 months.

I was just clearing up that it's not every single thing...

Again, not everything. Just a hurricane and a tsunami. And the bible proves that god is not wiser than man. God messed up his own creation several times. He had to banish Adam and Eve from Eden. He had to flood the earth bc all people (save Noah & co) were hopelessly beyond redemption. He had to send JC to earth to die, bc that somehow makes it ok if you and I sin. That is messed up. I could do better if I were omnipotent. Therefore, the bible is proof that god is not wiser than man.

That's false. He is. He works things out and etc....You can see as clear as day He is wiser. If you don't want to believe that, oh well. Plus, His ways are higher....thus what may 'seem' lower to your logic, isn't....

No, not really. Free will is an illusion and a joke, whether you are theistic or no. But that is another thread.

Correct...that's another thread.....

Not entirely my point. I was christian, then not. Others are not christian, then are. The only thing that matters is what they think at the moment of their death. Since this is chosen by god, he is obviously choosing to save some, and not others. Capricious, and cruel too, bc the ones that he decides not to save, he then burns for all future eternity. That is kind of mean.

False, He said He wants ALL men to be saved. Not some, but all, but we choose. He won't make us.

These are your assertions and you have no proof for them. My standards are, I believe, higher than god's standards, as I at least try to be just and moral. God does not, and outright admits to being a jealous god.

God's jealousy isn't messed up like ours. Plus, He created us. We belong to Him. Does he not have the right?

 

[""]

that supposedly died for our sins out of love, forgiveness, and compassion allow eight million children to be born each year with a serious genetic birth defect. And further more, why would he allow several hundred thousand or more children to suffer from the sins of their parents?

And if that isn't enough to chew on, why would he allow 20,000 to 40,000 children to starve to death every single day?

Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God, that is also benevolent, willingly allow innocent children to suffer or, in many cases, die prematurely? God cannot be all powerful, all knowing, and have a passion to do good while also allowing the mass suffering of children.

And for the record, I don't buy into God works in mysterious ways either. That's such a cop out...Christians and Pastors alike love to teach what God wants, feels, needs, and expects out of us, but when they don't have a good explanation, they explain it with God works in mysterious ways.

Wow.

First: WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION GOD'S LOVE FOR MY CHILD?
What? You don't believe you did? Well let me remind you.

that supposedly died for our sins out of love, forgiveness, and compassion allow eight million children to be born each year with a serious genetic birth defect.

Second:
What makes you think your body is so perfect?
What makes you think your standard for perfection is the one God intended for all mankind?
What makes you think that a child, an innocent chid, born special... is somehow loved less by God?



I wish I could meet you face to face.
Would I slap you for your ignorance?
No. I'd just bring my little boy along so you could talk to him, and he could hug you with that great big love that swells up in him so much that he just has to let it out. Then I'd like you to tell me again, that God didn't love him enough to make him perfect like you.





I forgive you.
Now go forgive yourself.

 

[Faith In God]

"Why is there suffering?"

This is not an easily answered question. The extremely short answer is that God is letting Satan perform his experiment with sin. Love is not love if it is forced. God believes in freedom of speech, you might say. Repent! Will man love more than God?

 

[Vedant]

that supposedly died for our sins out of love, forgiveness, and compassion allow eight million children to be born each year with a serious genetic birth defect. And further more, why would he allow several hundred thousand or more children to suffer from the sins of their parents?




Link to news source


And if that isn't enough to chew on, why would he allow 20,000 to 40,000 children to starve to death every single day?

Why would an omnipotent and omniscient God, that is also benevolent, willingly allow innocent children to suffer or, in many cases, die prematurely? God cannot be all powerful, all knowing, and have a passion to do good while also allowing the mass suffering of children.

And for the record, I don't buy into God works in mysterious ways either. That's such a cop out...Christians and Pastors alike love to teach what God wants, feels, needs, and expects out of us, but when they don't have a good explanation, they explain it with God works in mysterious ways.

I don't know.