Why won't nonCatholics help fulfill this prophecy?

[babylonisfalling]

Luke 1:48 from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed

What's the problem? I was out of the Catholic Church and in other churches for decades, and not a single one EVER did anything to fulfill that prophecy. Why not?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Luke 1:48 from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed

What's the problem? I was out of the Catholic Church and in other churches for decades, and not a single one EVER did anything to fulfill that prophecy. Why not?

First, you need to define what you understand to be a prophecy. Second, you should define what it means to "call me blessed". Then, perhaps, an effective discussion can proceed.

Thank you.

 

[babylonisfalling]

First, you need to define what you understand to be a prophecy. Second, you should define what it means to "call me blessed". Then, perhaps, an effective discussion and proceed.

Thank you.

You don't need a special class on definitions of prophecy and and verse. How about I make it simpler. Just explain why they won't do anything to fulfill the verse....or will you now pretend to need a special definition class for those words too?

 

[parsley]

Blessed -- Strong's Definition

From G3107 (fortunate, well off: - blessed, happy); to beatify, that is, pronounce (or esteem) fortunate: - call blessed, count happy.

The verse itself does not self-identify as a prophecy, other than her making a statement of expectation.

Even if it were universally considered a prophecy, it is God who ultimately fulfills prophecies. Other denominations loosely consider it prophetic, but in the sense that God gave her a glimpse of what a big impact Jesus would make on the world.

She continues her expression of thanks, "For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name."

God honored Mary with favor, public recognition for her progeny, and being chosen. As a group, all Christians recognize that, and do consider her blessed by God -- with the focus on God and His decision to bless all of mankind through blessing her with the human task of raising Jesus.

 

[babylonisfalling]

Blessed -- Strong's Definition

From G3107 (fortunate, well off: - blessed, happy); to beatify, that is, pronounce (or esteem) fortunate: - call blessed, count happy.

The verse itself does not self-identify as a prophecy, other than her making a statement of expectation.

Even if it were universally considered a prophecy, it is God who ultimately fulfills prophecies. Other denominations loosely consider it prophetic, but in the sense that God gave her a glimpse of what a big impact Jesus would make on the world.

She continues her expression of thanks, "For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name."

God honored Mary with favor, public recognition for her progeny, and being chosen. As a group, all Christians recognize that, and do consider her blessed by God -- with the focus on God and His decision to bless all of mankind through blessing her with the human task of raising Jesus.

It doesn't have to self identify, it tells us what's going to happen in the future, and it proved to be true....because all generations (of Catholics) do call her blessed.
The fact that you don't want it to be prophetic is obvious but that doesn't make it so, no matter how hard to try to rationalize.
And if you want to say God fulfills prophecy, well okay but obviously, He fulfills this prophecy through people who also have free will to choose. It doesn't say "all people of all generations", is just says all generations which gives you a chance NOT to participate in the fulfillment of that prophecy.

So again why do non Catholics choose NOT to participate?

 

[parsley]

The original word used for "blessed" means considered happy or deemed fortunate. Protestants do consider her fortunate. We consider Moses fortunate for being provided a way through the Red Sea.

The original phrasing does not mean revere, or something that requires action.


makarízō is also used in James 5:11 :

http://www.studylight.org/desk/?q=jas+5:11&sr=1&t=en_nas

"We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord's dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful."

Would we revere Job and Moses in the same way as Mary? Comparing this James verse implies we would. They were all people who honored God with their lives, and God worked through them -- which is truly something to be thankful for.



​

 

[babylonisfalling]

The original word used for "blessed" means considered happy or deemed fortunate. Protestants do consider her fortunate. We consider Moses fortunate for being provided a way through the Red Sea.

The original phrasing does not mean revere, or something that requires action.


makarízō is also used in James 5:11 :

http://www.studylight.org/desk/?q=jas+5:11&sr=1&t=en_nas

"We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord's dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful."

Would we revere Job and Moses in the same way as Mary? Comparing this James verse implies we would. They were all people who honored God with their lives, and God worked through them -- which is truly something to be thankful for.



​

Here's the HONEST definition, with nothing left out
Bible Study ToolsOur LibraryLexiconsNew Testament Greek LexiconNew Testament Greek Lexicon - King James VersionMakarizo
Makarizo

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3106
Original Word Word Origin
makarivzw from (3107)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Makarizo 4:362,548
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
mak-ar-id'-zo Verb
Definition
to pronounce blessed

King James Word Usage - Total: 2
call blessed 1, count happy 1

It means to call blessed...so again, why don't non Catholics participate in fulfilling this prophecy. Oh, by the way even if you did want to say that it means all generations would count her as happy, we don't seen non Catholic churches doing that either. They basically ignore Mary altogether unless they happen to trip over her name once or twice a year while reading the Bible.
I could probably answer FOR you if you're just unwilling to deal with this honestly.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I find it curious that the premise of this thread is that Protestants do not consider Mary to be blessed. We do. I do not know of any who do not. The antithesis would be that we consider her to be cursed. We assuredly do not.

That Protestants do not prostrate themselves before statues and paintings of Mary and offer her prayers and worship is quite true. Such things belong to God alone. If others choose to do so in the mistaken view that this constitutes "counting Mary blessed" then that is their concern, not ours.

 

[parsley]

Here's the HONEST definition, with nothing left out

If you will look higher up to my first post, I did paste the full definition of Strong's Thayers. I was not being dishonest; I was repeating myself.

The difference seems to be in how the word "blessed" is interpreted.
My question though, is about why this seems a point of contention to you? Protestants do not spend much time thinking about this subject. We do not determine not to honor her in a normal day.

When reflecting on the passages about Jesus' birth, we imagine ourselves in that situation and realize what a difficult position she was in, while also how honored she must have felt, along with Elizabeth and the rest of their extended family.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you will look higher up to my first post, I did paste the full definition of Strong's Thayers. I was not being dishonest; I was repeating myself.

The difference seems to be in how the word "blessed" is interpreted.
My question though, is about why this seems a point of contention to you? Protestants do not spend much time thinking about this subject. We do not determine not to honor her in a normal day.

When reflecting on the passages about Jesus' birth, we imagine ourselves in that situation and realize what a difficult position she was in, while also how honored she must have felt, along with Elizabeth and the rest of their extended family.

You do raise a valid question. I have often been puzzled when Catholics make this accusation against me. It is somewhat like Protestants accusing Catholics of Mariolatry.

 

[Targaryen]

Luke 1:48 from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed

What's the problem? I was out of the Catholic Church and in other churches for decades, and not a single one EVER did anything to fulfill that prophecy. Why not?

This is hardly a prophecy.

 

[Tangible]

Lutherans, at least, certainly consider Mary to have been and to continue to be blessed. We commemorate her festival, use her inspired song as part of our Vesper liturgy, confess her special role in the Creed, recognize her as the Theotokos, and often refer to her as the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[DarylFawcett]

Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible states the following:

Call me blessed - Pronounce me highly favored or happy in being the mother of the Messiah. It is therefore right to consider her as highly favored or happy; but this certainly does not warrant us to worship her or to pray to her. Abraham was blessed in being the father of the faithful; Paul in being the apostle to the Gentiles; Peter in first preaching the gospel to them; but who would think of worshipping or praying to Abraham, Paul, or Peter?

 

[Albion]

Luke 1:48 from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed

What's the problem? I was out of the Catholic Church and in other churches for decades, and not a single one EVER did anything to fulfill that prophecy. Why not?

Some observations upon reading your OP:

1. The "other churches" of your experience must have been somewhat limited, considering that there are a lot of churches that do commemorate Mary to some degree.

2. Calling Mary "blessed" (as has already been explained) does not mean falling down worshipping her or anything approaching that. It means only to consider her special, which I'm sure almost every Christian familiar with the New Testament does. and

3. In your OP, you speak of calling her "blessed" as though it's a command rather than a fact. All generations have called her blessed or something approximating that. But you suggested that something is amiss if everyone's not "help(ing) fulfill this prophesy." It's not a prophesy.

 

[concretecamper]

You do raise a valid question. I have often been puzzled when Catholics make this accusation against me. It is somewhat like Protestants accusing Catholics of Mariolatry.

I am glad you admit that these accusations against Catholics are false.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am glad you admit that these accusations against Catholics are false.

And I am equally pleased that you admit that accusations against Protestants failing to honor Mary properly are equally false.

 

[parsley]

It seems that most of the conversation not supporting Mary happens in forums, where people are eager to debate and prove their points. Sometimes they are explaining why they made a choice to leave a denomination, or why they have made the choices they did.

And yes, some people debate to stir up contention. Not everyone. Resistance you have come across does not represent the entirety of Protestant faith.

Back to the specific question...

Compare the beatitudes' use of the word "blessed."

Blessed are those who mourn... etc. speaks of all humans, through all generations.

Other uses of the Greek root word speak generally of believers.

Romans 4:8

How joyful/blessed is the man the Lord will never charge with sin!

​

Liddell-Scott-Jones Definitions include "My dear sir, state of bliss, O happy you for.. "

Root of 3106 "to pronounce blessed "
Strong's #3107 - μακάριος
A prolonged form of the poetical μάκαρ makar (meaning the same); supremely blest; by extension fortunate, well off: - blessed, happy (X -ier).

Thayer:
blessed, happy

It's not a prophesy.

This is hardly a prophecy.

define what you understand to be a prophecy.

We have run across other scriptures that people declare are prophecies, but the statements themselves were not recorded as such. Some people consider Song of Solomon prophetic; when I read it, it sounds like Solomon had a hidden affair with a woman in town. There are no scriptures or direct words from God that confirm certain verses are prophetic.

And there are some verses that turn out to be prophetic in cycles.

When someone teaches us that a verse is prophetic, we need to discern what the truth is for ourselves; and that is what Protestants are doing.

Often a teacher-minister will make statements with an expectation that the listeners have gone through the same pathway of logic that they have. This builds up a pattern of us trusting their judgment and making shortcuts when we learn. Since the speaker did so much research, we do not need to look it up ourselves.

Not that we hand over our brains to them, but we try to be obedient and respectful by not challenging what our leaders say to us. Their job is to communicate truth.

I have heard ministers say, "And you know how I feel about [that politician]" ...? Because?

"And of course you know that dinosaurs ..." Do I? The minister didn't explain the layers of information that built up to their conclusion.

Sermons are condensed packages that fit doctrine and inspiration into a few minutes, and a lot gets said that builds into larger belief systems without much foundation.

Many say that experts should not be questioned; when experts got that way by a pathway that is not so much different than many of the congregants took. (All due respect...) We are all called to study His Word and meditate on it day and night. We are all called to discern, to communicate God's intent and Words to others.

We just do the best we can with what we believe to be true.

 

[Zeek]

Originally Posted by concretecamper

I am glad you admit that these accusations against Catholics are false.
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bbbbbbb...And I am equally pleased that you admit that accusations against Protestants failing to honor Mary properly are equally false.

Well I think the truth of the matter is some Protestants don't give Mary that much honour and she is hardly ever the focus of a sermon, and there is little time given to her role in birthing and nurturing the Son of G-d.

Equally I have seen enough evidence to show that there are people within the Catholic faith who do indeed worship Mary, even if Catholicsm claims not to subscribe to such a thing.

 

[Albion]

Well I think the truth of the matter is some Protestants don't give Mary that much honour and she is hardly ever the focus of a sermon, and there is little time given to her role in birthing and nurturing the Son of G-d.

Equally I have seen enough evidence to show that there are people within the Catholic faith who do indeed worship Mary, even if Catholicsm claims not to subscribe to such a thing.

I'd say the Protestant attention to her is somewhat more than that, but, generally speaking, I agree with what you've written here. While Protestants don't lavish devotions on Mary that are obviously excessive, neither do they dishonor or ignore her--which is what some of the Catholic militants like to insinuate. This 'middle ground' seems entirely appropriate to me.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why won't nonCatholics help fulfill this prophecy?

This is hardly a prophecy.

That's what I was thinking. Glad you brought it up first.



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