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Why was the cross necessary?

mkgal1

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Man did the outmost evil, killing God's sinless Son. God did the outmost God sacrificing his own Son for man. The cross was the worst evil that ever happened and God used it for the highest good that ever happened.
I'd just like to clarify this a bit more - because there's another theory that has God the Father needing someone to die....so He sends His son as that person (I don't believe that's what you're suggesting here - it's just that I have an issue of allowing any room for that and I'm a bit hypersensitive about it).

Personally....I can't love or trust a bloodthirsty Father. Worded this way (which is how the Cross is typically presented) this also causes division within the Trinity. Jesus IS God. There's only one unified will of God....that none should perish....so God Himself laid down His life so we would know He loves us.
 
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Hmm

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Yes, and I think that's the answer of the question of "why the Cross?".

Romans 5:8 ~ But God demonstrates His love to us, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

I think there is a lot in all of these responses, thanks everyone. Yes, I think this verse is the answer for me. It says that God suffered the crucifixion himself and the reason for it was a personal one: He wanted an ultimate demonstration of His love to us while we were still sinners. If God wanted to demonstrate His love to us and choose this way to do it, who am I to question this? Thanks mkgal.
 
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Hazelelponi

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To me while Jesus's death is the ultimate act of love, that explanation alone trivializes sin.

The fact is that our sin is so sinful, and God's Holiness so Holy the only way we can stand in His presence at all is through the lens of Christ's shed blood... anything less and we would be burnt up.

Christ is our reconciliation to God... and the only means by which that reconciliation can take place.

I don't think we can afford to trivialize sin so. Its no trivial matter, and neither is Jesus death. To me, the greatest miracle of all was this, that God made a path by which man might be forgiven, and thus reconciling us to Him.

That was a miracle greater than creation itself.
 
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eleos1954

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He could have been clubbed to death.

not so ... prophesy regarding his life... death ... including many many details in the OT about how it would happen, where it would happen, etc. was given in great detail by the prophets .... and prophesy must be fulfilled 100% ... because it's sure word builds our faith.

so no .... he couldn't have been "clubbed to death".
 
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bling

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You show excellent logic and understanding. I also like your summery of the popular atonement theories, but everyone of them have a lot more issues then you stated, making them all unlikely alternatives, so they remain theories with problems.

I really like your question: “Why did Jesus have to go to the cross?”

Generally, except for the Moral Influence Theory, you are going to hear: “God has some kind of “problem” which Jesus resolves for Him. The Moral Influence Theory does not explain the over kill needed for Jesus to go to the cross, either (there has to be much more to it).

Atonement is a huge topic and I could write a book on it since like you I have studied, discussed and read a lot on it (I did not like any of the 12 or so theories I have read). What I have experienced is the fact: “Atonement is much easier experienced than explained”. What did you experience with atonement?

This might help, if prophecy and actuality had Christ, falling off His donkey instantly breaking his neck and dying on the way into Jerusalem, avoiding the cruel torture, humiliation and murder on the cross, what would you miss out on?

Some added issues with the theories you mentioned:

1. They make God out to be blood thirsty?

2. God is seen as being extremely wrathful toward His children?

3. All leave out man’s part in the atonement process, but do try to inject it someway?

4. They show universal atonement, which has to be illogically explained away to be for only those saved?

5. Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and the Hebrew writer explain Jesus going to the cross as literally being a ransom payment, yet the theories do a poor job explaining how these theories are ransom/kidnap scenario (the Ransom Theory of Atonement also does a poor job).

6. A rebellious disobedient child of a wonderful parent not only needs forgiveness, but fair/just Loving discipline conducted if at all possible, with the Parent (this is for best results), yet these theories only show forgiveness and not how atonement is a fair/just loving disciplining of the sinner.

7. It makes God out to be weak needing something like Christ going to the cross to forgive or accept the sinner and/or there is this “cosmic law” God has to obey.

8. They do not fit what went on with minor sins (unintentional sins) being atoned for (Lev.5).

9. They do not explain the contrast between those forgiven before and after the cross Ro. 3:25.

10. They have no reason for why these explanations are left out of the Christ Crucified sermons given in the New Testament.

11. They do not fit, what the new convert can/should experience when coming to the realization they caused Christ to be tortured, humiliated and murdered (being crucified with Christ).

12. All will give illogical the interpretations of verses and words in scripture, like (My God, My God why have you forsaken me) and the English word “for”.

13. They have or say: God forgives our sins 100% and Christ paid for our sins 100%, but that is contradicting the scriptural understanding of “paying” and “forgiving”, since if it truly “forgiven” there is nothing to be paid. It also cheapens sin.

14. The atonement sacrifice losses its significance by being rolled up with the death burial and resurrection.

15. We have Peter in Acts 2 giving a wonderful “Christ Crucified” sermon, yet there is no mention of Christ being our substitute or the cross “satisfying” God in some way and that is not presented in other sermons in scripture.

The cross is foolishness to the nonbeliever so it is not easy to explain:

To truly understand we need to go through every Old and New Testament verse concerning the atonement process and Christ’s crucifixion. I like to start with Lev. 5, but find great understanding in Ro. 3:25, since there is Godly logic in what happened.

Try just this small part of it:

There is this unbelievable huge “ransom payment” being made: Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and the author of Hebrews all describe it as an actual ransom scenario and not just “like a ransom scenario”. And we can all agree on: the payment being Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder, the Payer being God/Christ, the child being set free (sinners going to God), but have a problem with: “Who is the kidnapper”? If there is no kidnapper than the ransom scenario does not fit, so who is the kidnapper?

Some people try to make God the receiver of the payment, which calls God the kidnapper of His own children which is crazy.

Some people say satan is the kidnapper, but that would mean God is paying satan when God has the power to safely take anything from satan and it would be wrong for God to pay His satan.

Some say it is an intangible like death, evil, sin, or nothing, but you would not pay a huge payment to an intangible?

There is one very likely kidnapper and that is the person holding a child back from entering the Kingdom to be with God. When we go to the nonbeliever, we are not trying to convince them of an idea, a book, a doctrine or theology, but to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified (which is described as the ransom payment). If the nonbeliever accepts the ransom payment (Jesus Christ) there is a child released to go to the Father, but if the nonbeliever refuses to accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept out of the Kingdom. Does this all sounds very much like a kidnapping scenario?

There is a lot more to say about this, but this is an introduction.
 
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Hmm

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To me while Jesus's death is the ultimate act of love, that explanation alone trivializes sin.

Just so it's clear, the explanation being referred to is Romans 5:8 ~ But God demonstrates His love to us, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

My take is that there are lots of different strands of truth about the crucifixion and so I don't take that as an "explanation alone" and so it is not trivialising anything. It is however the explanation that means the most to me for the reasons I gave, namely that it is a personal explanation - personal to God and one which does not harm any human person.

You give a good explanation here:
The fact is that our sin is so sinful, and God's Holiness so Holy the only way we can stand in His presence at all is through the lens of Christ's shed blood... anything less and we would be burnt up.

While explanations like these, and the many other explanations given above, can help our understanding of the cross, they still leave me thinking "Well, why?". From your explanation: why is it true that "the only way we can stand in His presence at all is through the lens of Christ's shed blood". But I don't feel any need to question the Romans verse, again for the reasons I gave above because if God wanted to show His love in this totally self-giving way, it would not be fitting for me to question Him.
 
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Yes, this is love. Like why a father would push his son out of the way of a fast moving car (Whereby the father took the place of the son) because he loves his son and does not want to see him die, but to live. A life for a life. It's done.... out of love. The same is true as to why God the Father so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son to die for you, and me (See: John 3:16).

Also, justice must be taken into account as well. Sin needed to be paid for so as to satisfy the demands of justice because can you imagine living a world without justice of any kind? It would be horrible. No police to protect you. No courts for anyone to be punished or imprisoned for crimes. It would be like living in a living nightmare. People could murder, rape, and steal and get away with it. You could feel like life was not fair and not justice in life existed (If you lived in a world like that).
 
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JacksBratt

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I think you are missing the point.

Many humans have given their life for someone else. Christ even calls that the greatest thing a man can do... lay down their life for a friend.

However, the cross... that is different.. No human can do anything any how, any where... no matter how rich they are, strong they are or unselfish they are.. Every single human is powerless to gain one step toward doing anything to earn their own salvation..

Only a sinless person... who suffered and died... can then claim the right to pass their payment on to another.

Christ was sinless. He then paid the dept of a sinner.

Thus.. He can pass this on to you.

AND... He did this on purpose.. before you even sinned.. Before you even knew Him.. He was thinking of you and died in your place.
 
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mkgal1

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If God wanted to demonstrate His love to us and choose this way to do it,
I think it's human nature to demand that "someone must pay" for evil...and it's God's nature to restore us of our evil (so no one is harmed).

Look at who is ultimately satisfied in Isaiah's prophecy:

Isaiah 53:5 ~ He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.
 
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timothyu

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Why would God suddenly let a man live when all were removed from the tree of life? God didn't kill the man. Man did. Death befalls all man. His death served man's purpose but God took that backwards thinking and used it for His own purpose. That is what God does with us. He uses us against ourselves. Look at when Christianity rebelled against the Kingdom and rejoined the world of man. God used that traitorous act to ensure the scripture which might have disappeared with the Jews, was carried forward to today in the hands of the enemy.
 
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mkgal1

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Wow, so God is a bloodthirsty SOB who is into honor killings? Golly...
Shocking....isn't it?

Hearing that belief accepted and put forward is cringe-worthy to say the least.
 
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mkgal1

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Excellent point.

2 Timothy 1:10 ~ And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel

This illustration is called the Victory of Christ. See death portrayed beneath Jesus's feet?

"The Resurrection | Icon of Victory – A Reader's Guide to Orthodox Icons" explanation here---> Resurrection | Icon of Victory
 
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lsume

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I think I might understand your question as I have also thought about this very important aspect of our salvation. First please ask yourself this question, who better to rule us than Christ? He Knew Who He was and still sacrificed Himself. If you understand much about managing people, you know that it can help a great deal if that person can empathize with you right? God The Father’s Purity and Love wanted us to be born this way. If you understand that, then you might understand.
 
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Well said. Definitely a worthy point in mentioning for sure. Only the Lord could save us because He is holy and sinless. A spotless Lamb was needed to pay the price for sin. Something that was clean was needed to clean something that was unclean. It definitely works in harmony with the points I mentioned so far (i.e. the Blood Atonement and the Substitutionary Atonement).
 
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jacks

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There has been many good explanations and I think also Jesus was being the perfect example to us. He didn't just say what we should do, he embodied what we should do.

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you."
John 15: 12-15
 
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nolidad

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Jesus was made our sin and punished for us and our sin debt so we can be restored to righteousness. God required a blood sacrifice to pay for sin. He died so we could live!
 
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timothyu

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Jesus was made our sin and punished for us and our sin debt so we can be restored to righteousness. God required a blood sacrifice to pay for sin. He died so we could live!
We were already punished with removal from the Garden and the Tree of Life and released into the world to suffer the consequences of our self serving actions, then die.

Again... Is grace, grace if it requires payment?
 
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We were already punished with removal from the Garden and the Tree of Life and released into the world to suffer the consequences of our self serving actions, then die.

Again... Is grace, grace if it requires payment?

God the Father was providing a means of grace or mercy via with His Son dying for our sins, with His burial, with His resurrection, and with His first ascension to the Father (to be our heavenly high priest). This all needed to happen before grace could be administered.

In regards to Christ dying for our sins: Well, it's like when somebody pays a person's bail to get out of jail. The person paying is showing the imprisoned person.... grace. Anyone who helps to pay off the debt of another is showing the one in debt... grace.
 
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