Why was Jesus troubled at Lazarus' tomb?

[probinson]

If you told this story to a child, how would the child interpret it? The child would most likely say Jesus wept because he was sad his friend died. Jesus was fully God and fully man and felt the same emotions we feel.

While I'll agree that Jesus felt the same emotions that we feel and his weeping may indeed have been somehwat resultant of the sorrow He felt from others around, I will say that the comparison to "how would a child interpret it" has been shot down before.

For example:
How would a child interpret it if I said I had to make you sick for your own good? A child would see that this makes absolutely no sense.

So I'm not sure we can use the "how would a child interpret it" argument.

Also, aren't we supposed to put childish things behind us?

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

 

[JimB]

All I can say is this was completely unnecessary and added absolutely nothing to the discussion. You managed to completely discount everything I said and demean me in the process, all without any backing for your statements.

But then that seems to be the norm here. You'd think you could expect better behavior from Christians, but I suppose not.

By the way, this is not the accepted WoF translation of this verse either. These are my personal musings after meditating upon the scripture. But then that means you'd have to think of me as a person capable of thinking for myself instead of a WoF drone.

She was just stating a differing opinion, Pete. Isn’t that what forums do? I disagree with you and you disagree with me in almost every thread. You may even disagree with this.

 

[JimfromOhio]

While I'll agree that Jesus felt the same emotions that we feel and his weeping may indeed have been somehwat resultant of the sorrow He felt from others around, I will say that the comparison to "how would a child interpret it" has been shot down before.

For example:
How would a child interpret it if I said I had to make you sick for your own good? A child would see that this makes absolutely no sense.

So I'm not sure we can use the "how would a child interpret it" argument.

Also, aren't we supposed to put childish things behind us?

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

As I said before about childish debates. Regarding people responding to my views, their views are more child-like by attacking like a child as Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 14:20 "Brethren, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly"; which means a Christian should demonstrate godly love and have real credibility.

Some views are more extreme that offends others like me therefore I voiced my views. There are Christians who are zealous for the Lord and forget the sensitivity of humanity. Trust God to use us they way He intended to use us. If He wants to heal us, He will. If He does not want to heal us because He wants to use us for His ministry, we will let Him. When we accepted Christ as our Savior, Christ became our LORD and we give ourselves to HIM (see Romans 12:1-8).

This is my opinion only, no one else. Those who are into healing doctrine mean they are who are healed are more superior than those who are not healed? Let me say this: God does heal but only according to His will, not ours. Those who are not healed are not at fault. Its not about lack of faith or our sins or anything like that. By saying that those who are not healed are less superior spiritually than those who are healed, is mean and un-Christlike.

 

[Trish1947]

BarbB....But then I don't bother keeping up with the latest Word of Faith stuff. Too much solid stuff to read the fluff. Sorry.

Awe, the unity of the Spirit...theres nothing like it!!....

When you can find it.

 

[probinson]

She was just stating a differing opinion, Pete. Isn’t that what forums do? I disagree with you and you disagree with me in almost every thread. You may even disagree with this.

What was her opinion?

Personally, I didn't see one. It was just an opportunity to take a cheap shot at WoF by calling it "fluff".

I welcome differing opinions and I realize that's what forums are for. There was no opinion in her post. Just ridiculous "I'm glad I don't think like you" phrases.

 

[probinson]

By saying that those who are not healed are less superior spiritually than those who are healed, is mean and un-Christlike.

I agree and you should stop saying it IMMEDIATELY since you're the only one saying such nonsense. Unless you like bearing false witness against others.

 

[JimB]

What was her opinion?

Personally, I didn't see one. It was just an opportunity to take a cheap shot at WoF by calling it "fluff".

I welcome differing opinions and I realize that's what forums are for. There was no opinion in her post. Just ridiculous "I'm glad I don't think like you" phrases.

I don't recall you being so sensitive to criticism before, Pete.

 

[BarbB]

If you told this story to a child, how would the child interpret it? The child would most likely say Jesus wept because he was sad his friend died. Jesus was fully God and fully man and felt the same emotions we feel.

Bingo!

OK, there's my opinion. OK, now?

Sorry I hurt your feelings, Pete, but that was about as far out an interpretation as I've ever seen, heard or read. And, of course, it did nothing to further the unity of spirit that I'm now accused of breaking. We have unity in Christ, certainly not in our doctrines.

 

[NacDan]

If you told this story to a child, how would the child interpret it? The child would most likely say Jesus wept because he was sad his friend died. Jesus was fully God and fully man and felt the same emotions we feel.

This is always how I had understood the passage. Jesus was fully man. How many times does it say in the Scriptures that He was moved with compassion?

To be fully human, He had to have the "human experience", which includes sorrow.

Danny

 

[peacechild4]

When our baby son died.. God gave me a great miracle of peace.. And this was so powerful that when others were weeping I was shock horror.. smiling.. and calm..

I hardly shed a tear through our baby son's funeral I just had no sadness I even got up to speak... It was like I was carried through by His peace.. Having known others who have lost a child.. I know this is not normal... And the immense grief that parents feel when a child dies never did come to me.. only in bits and pieces.. hardly at all.. Gods peace was that powerful in my life..

A lady who was at our church on the day of the funeral.. who worked in a hospice.. and was like a counsellor.. mentor.. came up to me.. And I could see the concern all over her face.. not that our son had died.. but that I was not grieving..

She quoted that verse.... "Jesus wept"... I just said.. I know.. but I can't... I just can't... God is that good to me..

Since I have gone through such peace.. I often have thought about why Jesus wept.. People of course will always interpret it differently..

Death.... illness.. Jesus had power over them.. He of course was also in a human body..

Many times he said.. Your faith has made you well.. It is as if.. our lack of faith keeps Him from doing so much more.. Maybe He cried because He wanted to raise many more people.. not just Lazarus..

There is so much we don't see... don't experience.. don't realise.... but this I do know.. when you have experienced the other side even a little.. I mean Gods awesome presence, visions.. see miracles.. life is just never the same.. And you never want it to stop!!

You of course feel for those who don't yet know or who won't believe.. and maybe Jesus was feeling genuine sorrow.. that He had the power to bring people from death to life.. but so many would never know it..

Like the man who was ill for 38 years.. Jesus said a remarkable thing to him.. Do you want to get well?? That is a whole new topic in itself..

Oh wow... there is so much more to the spiritual.. but oh boy to we need to keep learning and asking and crying out for more.. for our world needs life more then death!! Resurection power more then illness and hopelessness!!

 

[Mark2010]

Wow, that is an amzing story.

I take simpler approach to this question: Jesus wept because one of his friends had died. I'd probably do the same.

 

[KleinerApfel]

When our baby son died.. God gave me a great miracle of peace.. And this was so powerful that when others were weeping I was shock horror.. smiling.. and calm..

I hardly shed a tear through our baby son's funeral I just had no sadness I even got up to speak... It was like I was carried through by His peace.. Having known others who have lost a child.. I know this is not normal... And the immense grief that parents feel when a child dies never did come to me.. only in bits and pieces.. hardly at all.. Gods peace was that powerful in my life..

A lady who was at our church on the day of the funeral.. who worked in a hospice.. and was like a counsellor.. mentor.. came up to me.. And I could see the concern all over her face.. not that our son had died.. but that I was not grieving..

She quoted that verse.... "Jesus wept"... I just said.. I know.. but I can't... I just can't... God is that good to me..

Since I have gone through such peace.. I often have thought about why Jesus wept.. People of course will always interpret it differently..

Death.... illness.. Jesus had power over them.. He of course was also in a human body..

Many times he said.. Your faith has made you well.. It is as if.. our lack of faith keeps Him from doing so much more.. Maybe He cried because He wanted to raise many more people.. not just Lazarus..

There is so much we don't see... don't experience.. don't realise.... but this I do know.. when you have experienced the other side even a little.. I mean Gods awesome presence, visions.. see miracles.. life is just never the same.. And you never want it to stop!!

You of course feel for those who don't yet know or who won't believe.. and maybe Jesus was feeling genuine sorrow.. that He had the power to bring people from death to life.. but so many would never know it..

Like the man who was ill for 38 years.. Jesus said a remarkable thing to him.. Do you want to get well?? That is a whole new topic in itself..

Oh wow... there is so much more to the spiritual.. but oh boy to we need to keep learning and asking and crying out for more.. for our world needs life more then death!! Resurection power more then illness and hopelessness!!

Thank you for all that you shared, how wonderful to hear your testimony of God's comfort over your son.



I love your way of explaining the tears of Jesus at the tomb of Lazarus:

Maybe He cried because He wanted to raise many more people.. not just Lazarus..

..and maybe Jesus was feeling genuine sorrow.. that He had the power to bring people from death to life.. but so many would never know it..

I'm sure that's right.

God bless you, love Sue

 

[probinson]

I don't recall you being so sensitive to criticism before, Pete.

I'm not sensitive to criticism. Feel free to criticize me all you want. But please, try to do so in a constructive manner. Don't just post some nonsensical, "gee, I'm sure glad I don't have friends that think like you".

Please, post your opposing points of view and feel free to point out where you think I've gone wrong. But do so in a constructive mannner and not in a demeaning, mocking manner.

 

[probinson]

Bingo!

OK, there's my opinion. OK, now?

Sorry I hurt your feelings, Pete, but that was about as far out an interpretation as I've ever seen, heard or read. And, of course, it did nothing to further the unity of spirit that I'm now accused of breaking. We have unity in Christ, certainly not in our doctrines.

You didn't hurt my feelings and I'm anything but sensitive to criticism. But your post painting my thoughts with a broadbrush of the "latest Word of Faith stuff" irritated me.

My name is Pete. I have a brain and can think for myself. I do not represent every WoF person you've ever heard before or will again. I would appreciate being talked to as such.

 

[probinson]

Many times he said.. Your faith has made you well.. It is as if.. our lack of faith keeps Him from doing so much more.. Maybe He cried because He wanted to raise many more people.. not just Lazarus..

There is so much we don't see... don't experience.. don't realise.... but this I do know.. when you have experienced the other side even a little.. I mean Gods awesome presence, visions.. see miracles.. life is just never the same.. And you never want it to stop!!

You of course feel for those who don't yet know or who won't believe.. and maybe Jesus was feeling genuine sorrow.. that He had the power to bring people from death to life.. but so many would never know it..

Wow! What an amazing story. Thank you for sharing.

As for what you said, the part I've bolded sums up what I've been saying. Think about this; all power and authority has been given to Jesus. Yet He can do only what our faith in Him allows Him to do. Jesus told people, "According to YOUR FAITH be it unto you." What you said was so good, I just have to post it again:

It is as if.. our lack of faith keeps Him from doing so much more..

 

[probinson]

Wow, that is an amzing story.

I take simpler approach to this question: Jesus wept because one of his friends had died. I'd probably do the same.

Why this doesn't make any sense to me is because Jesus KNEW He was about to raise Lazarus from the dead. He KNEW it from the beginning as evidenced by His statement "This sickness will not end in death". Lazarus dying did not come as a shock to Jesus.

If one of my friends died, and I KNEW I was about to raise him from the dead, what reason would there be to weep? I'd know in just a matter of moments that my friend would be alive again. I think I'd be rejoicing.

 

[mysparrow]

It seems poor Jesus just can't get anybody to really believe him.

First He tells the disciples He's going to wake Lazarus from sleep...after explaining that 'sleep' meant death.

Instead of getting excited about seeing a death to life event...they murmured "Let us also go, that we may die with Him." v. 16

They're focused on the stone-happy Jews instead of this remarkable thing Jesus just said.

Again, He plainly tells Martha 'Your brother will rise again' v. 23 and she doesn't get it either.

Then here comes sweet Mary falling at His feet...probably wailing as only a woman can do, again complaining at His no-show when the man was sick.

He must have felt like there wasn't a soul in the world that EXPECTED a miracle.

They murmured and complained instead of expecting a miracle.

I believe Jesus SO wanted to take these folks to a higher place of believing and expecting. What a frustrating day for Him!

AMEN HISGIRL! I totally agree with that outlook on this.