Why was Jesus baptized by John?

[Eprom]

Dr Colin Brown from Fuller Theological Seminary has written an interesting paper called “What was John the Baptist Doing?” He writes – “In emulation of the original entry depicted in the Book of Joshua, John’s baptism called on Israelites to exit the land, and return across the Jordan under the leadership of John in order to repossess the land as a consecrated people. The crossing of the Jordan holds the key to what John was doing”

The question I have is: Why was Jesus baptized by John and why did Jesus say it would “fulfill all righteousness”?

 

[Dmckay]

I notice that you also posted this question on Christian Gate. Wondering if you will get a different answer?

With all due respect to Dr. Brown he has completely missed the mark. Not many people today realize that Baptism didn't start with John the Baptist. Baptism was used by the Jews whenever someone converted to Judaism. When John came on the scene call for a baptism of repentance it was a call for the Jews of Jesus' day to turn away or die to their life style of sin. In both cases, conversion to Judaism, baptism unto repentance the baptism (immersion) publically symbolized the individual's death and burial to their previous way of life, the coming out of the water symbolized the new life they were adopting. The public aspect to the baptism was inviting those who observed this act of commitment to observe and judge if the new life matched the commitment. A means of accountability to others if you will.

If you invite a Jewish friend to attend church services with you, and they attend, the family will be concerned. If the surrender their life to Christ the family may shun their family member. However, if that former Jew is baptized as a Christian, the Jewish familys have been known to hold a funeral service for their now dead family member. They recognize the commitment that Baptism represents as few Baptists do today.

John was challenging righteousness as it was taught and practiced by the religious leaders of his day. They knew that he was challenging their authority and their interpretation of the Scriptures. A part of John's message was also that The promised Messiah was on His way and that his baptism unto repentance which was a call for a complete lifestyle change was needed to prepare the way of the Lord. When Jesus appeared before John, and John declared, "Behold, the Lamb of G-d, who takes away the sins of the World." This was a public declaration that the Messiah, who would replace the decadent religious system, was now on the scene.

Because there were so many that had repented and been baptised unto righteousness by John, Jesus needed to be baptized by John as well to identify with that righteous remnant that He had come to save. As you know, after being raised up out of the Water following His Baptism, G-d the Father declared from heaven, "Behold, My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

 

[AngelusSax]

I'd like to add, remember that John says that one is coming after him who will baptize differently than him. John's baptism was of repentance... the Baptism into the name of Jesus is different. And John's Baptism served, among other things, as a precursor to Jesus' Baptism.

 

[Eprom]

Not many people today realize that Baptism didn't start with John the Baptist. Baptism was used by the Jews whenever someone converted to Judaism. When John came on the scene call for a baptism of repentance it was a call for the Jews of Jesus' day to turn away or die to their life style of sin. In both cases, conversion to Judaism, baptism unto repentance the baptism (immersion) publically symbolized the individual's death and burial to their previous way of life, the coming out of the water symbolized the new life they were adopting . . . Because there were so many that had repented and been baptised unto righteousness by John, Jesus needed to be baptized by John as well to identify with that righteous remnant that He had come to save. As you know, after being raised up out of the Water following His Baptism, G-d the Father declared from heaven, "Behold, My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Yes, yes, yes, this is the answer we’ve all learned in Sunday school. In my mind, identity with John’s baptism of repentance doesn’t come even close to the gravity of Jesus statement that it would “fulfill all righteousness”. Lets’ take a survey of the landscape!

1) John was baptizing at “Bethabara beyond Jordan”(John 1:28), an area at the southern end of the Jordan River close to the Dead Sea, and facing what was once Jericho. This is where Joshua led the Israelites to cross the Jordan, and where the tabernacle was set up before they moved it to Shiloh. Just South/East was Mt Nebo where Abraham and Moses looked across to the Promised Land, and due East is where Elijah was taken up to heaven on the fiery chariot, and the springs that flow down from Elijah’s hill could be the very place Moses broke open the rock in the wilderness the second time. This is where God gave final instructions to Moses and Joshua before the Israelites entered the Promised Land. Ever wonder why the Jews asked John if he was the Elijah or the Prophet? This was the place of their final hours, and they were both known for crossing the waters! This may also be the location of Atad’s threshingfloor, where Joseph stopped with the Egyptian Funeral procession before he took his fathered embalmed remains back to Hebron. As a final note, if Eden was originally in the land we know as Israel as so many Rabbi’s contend, this may be where Cain and Abel sacrificed to God, just east of Eden. So . . . next to Mt Zion itself, this may be the most Holy ground in all Israel.
2) John was a “voice of one shouting in the wilderness” to . . . a) Prepare the way for the Lord (Mat 3:1, Luke 3:4), and b) make his paths straight (Mat 3:1, Luke 3:4, John 1:23). So how does the identity with John’s baptism of repentance make the messiah’s “paths straight”? I think the real key to this mystery is found in the fact that the Jews thought that John was the Christ.
3) Jesus didn’t enter into ministry after his baptism to be a spokesman and advocate for this baptism of repentance, he went into the wilderness to be tested. It is when he comes back from the wilderness 40 days later that John proclaims, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
4) Baptism wasn’t just used for conversion, before a Priest could participate in the sacrificial system - they had to be washed in water (Leviticus 8:6), Before the Israelites could enter the Promised Land - they had to pass through the waters of the Jordan River (Joshua 3), When Elijah humiliates the four hundred & fifty prophets of Baal, he poured out water on the alter of God (1 Kings 18), When Elisha asked for double Elisha's spirit, they walked through the waters together (2Kings 2). From the washing of animals about to be sacrificed, to the ceremonial cleansing of diseased people, water can be seen running throughout the pages of scripture.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[Dmckay]

Yes, yes, yes, this is the answer we’ve all learned in Sunday school. In my mind, identity with John’s baptism of repentance doesn’t come even close to the gravity of Jesus statement that it would “fulfill all righteousness”. Lets’ take a survey of the landscape!

1) John was baptizing at “Bethabara beyond Jordan”(John 1:28), an area at the southern end of the Jordan River close to the Dead Sea, and facing what was once Jericho. This is where Joshua led the Israelites to cross the Jordan, and where the tabernacle was set up before they moved it to Shiloh. Just South/East was Mt Nebo where Abraham and Moses looked across to the Promised Land, and due East is where Elijah was taken up to heaven on the fiery chariot, and the springs that flow down from Elijah’s hill could be the very place Moses broke open the rock in the wilderness the second time. This is where God gave final instructions to Moses and Joshua before the Israelites entered the Promised Land. Ever wonder why the Jews asked John if he was the Elijah or the Prophet? This was the place of their final hours, and they were both known for crossing the waters! This may also be the location of Atad’s threshingfloor, where Joseph stopped with the Egyptian Funeral procession before he took his fathered embalmed remains back to Hebron. As a final note, if Eden was originally in the land we know as Israel as so many Rabbi’s contend, this may be where Cain and Abel sacrificed to God, just east of Eden. So . . . next to Mt Zion itself, this may be the most Holy ground in all Israel.
2) John was a “voice of one shouting in the wilderness” to . . . a) Prepare the way for the Lord (Mat 3:1, Luke 3:4), and b) make his paths straight (Mat 3:1, Luke 3:4, John 1:23). So how does the identity with John’s baptism of repentance make the messiah’s “paths straight”? I think the real key to this mystery is found in the fact that the Jews thought that John was the Christ.
3) Jesus didn’t enter into ministry after his baptism to be a spokesman and advocate for this baptism of repentance, he went into the wilderness to be tested. It is when he comes back from the wilderness 40 days later that John proclaims, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
4) Baptism wasn’t just used for conversion, before a Priest could participate in the sacrificial system - they had to be washed in water (Leviticus 8:6), Before the Israelites could enter the Promised Land - they had to pass through the waters of the Jordan River (Joshua 3), When Elijah humiliates the four hundred & fifty prophets of Baal, he poured out water on the alter of God (1 Kings 18), When Elisha asked for double Elisha's spirit, they walked through the waters together (2Kings 2). From the washing of animals about to be sacrificed, to the ceremonial cleansing of diseased people, water can be seen running throughout the pages of scripture.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Israel DOES NOT lie between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

 

[Eprom]

Israel DOES NOT lie between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Who says it does, and what does this have to do with the topic at hand???

 

[Andyman_1970]

This thread should lend some insight:

Click here

 

[Dmckay]

Yes, yes, yes, this is the answer we’ve all learned in Sunday school. In my mind, identity with John’s baptism of repentance doesn’t come even close to the gravity of Jesus statement that it would “fulfill all righteousness”. Lets’ take a survey of the landscape!

1) John was baptizing at “Bethabara beyond Jordan”(John 1:28), an area at the southern end of the Jordan River close to the Dead Sea, and facing what was once Jericho. This is where Joshua led the Israelites to cross the Jordan, and where the tabernacle was set up before they moved it to Shiloh. Just South/East was Mt Nebo where Abraham and Moses looked across to the Promised Land, and due East is where Elijah was taken up to heaven on the fiery chariot, and the springs that flow down from Elijah’s hill could be the very place Moses broke open the rock in the wilderness the second time. This is where God gave final instructions to Moses and Joshua before the Israelites entered the Promised Land. Ever wonder why the Jews asked John if he was the Elijah or the Prophet? This was the place of their final hours, and they were both known for crossing the waters! This may also be the location of Atad’s threshingfloor, where Joseph stopped with the Egyptian Funeral procession before he took his fathered embalmed remains back to Hebron. As a final note, if Eden was originally in the land we know as Israel as so many Rabbi’s contend, this may be where Cain and Abel sacrificed to God, just east of Eden. So . . . next to Mt Zion itself, this may be the most Holy ground in all Israel.
2) John was a “voice of one shouting in the wilderness” to . . . a) Prepare the way for the Lord (Mat 3:1, Luke 3:4), and b) make his paths straight (Mat 3:1, Luke 3:4, John 1:23). So how does the identity with John’s baptism of repentance make the messiah’s “paths straight”? I think the real key to this mystery is found in the fact that the Jews thought that John was the Christ.
3) Jesus didn’t enter into ministry after his baptism to be a spokesman and advocate for this baptism of repentance, he went into the wilderness to be tested. It is when he comes back from the wilderness 40 days later that John proclaims, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!”
4) Baptism wasn’t just used for conversion, before a Priest could participate in the sacrificial system - they had to be washed in water (Leviticus 8:6), Before the Israelites could enter the Promised Land - they had to pass through the waters of the Jordan River (Joshua 3), When Elijah humiliates the four hundred & fifty prophets of Baal, he poured out water on the alter of God (1 Kings 18), When Elisha asked for double Elisha's spirit, they walked through the waters together (2Kings 2). From the washing of animals about to be sacrificed, to the ceremonial cleansing of diseased people, water can be seen running throughout the pages of scripture.

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Try reading what you post. You said it. All this speculation about the significance of the Jordan is reading quite a bit into the Biblical text that isn't there. That aside, the original land grant G-d promised Abram stretched from the Med to the river Euphrates.

 

[Eprom]

Try reading what you post. You said it. All this speculation about the significance of the Jordan is reading quite a bit into the Biblical text that isn't there. That aside, the original land grant G-d promised Abram stretched from the Med to the river Euphrates.

I do know what I posted! What I’m suggesting is that Eden was in the geographic area we know as Israel, not that Israel is in the area you believe to have been Eden’s location, which was Mesopotamia. I might suggest you’re just being contentious here! And who says the location of John’s baptism isn’t relevant to the topic at hand? Of coarse it is!

 

[Eprom]

This thread should lend some insight:

Click here

Good link Andyman! Some very good dialogue here!

 

[Andyman_1970]

Thanks, sorry but I didn't feel like repeating myself here........

 

[Eprom]

Thanks, sorry but I didn't feel like repeating myself here........

I do appreciate the gentleman like way you handled yourself through this discussion you have referenced here, but the topic is different. Your focus was on John’s baptism, but you never really addressed why Jesus had to be baptized and how this act would “fulfill all righteousness”. I might suggest that the concept of Mikvah holds a piece of this answer to this question as Jesus was “the son of man”, and as such represented the anti-type of Naaman as he entered the waters of John’s baptism. The disease in the human condition was lifted, heaven opened, and the Spirit came to rest on Jesus. My mind is drawn to how the Spirit was hovering over the waters in Genesis 1:2 and the picture of the ark and the dove returning with the olive leaf. In Jesus, the Holy Spirit found ground that could be inhabited. So when heaven opened, did it just open for the Christ, or did it open forever for all of humanity?

The points JohnJones has made in you discussion are also valid in addressing this issue, and I think that in his callous disregard for you perspective and his occasional crass demeanor may have kept you from seeing the force of his argument. This baptism (to whelm, to cover wholly in a fluid - Strongs) of John’s was distinctive from a conventional Mikvah and the manner of this uniqueness was perceived by the Jewish authorities to be brought to Israel by one of three qualified individuals:

1)[font=&quot] [/font]The Prophet (Deut 18:15) - who was to be “like me”, as Moses said. As Moses guided the children of Israel through the Waters of the Red Sea, “The Prophet” could be qualified to lead the people through the waters.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]As Elijah (2 Kings 2) took Elisha through the waters of the Jordan, he was thought to return from the clouds on day and would be also qualified to lead the people through the waters.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]The Christ – I will leave this for others to define for now.

 

[Papa01]

Jesus did not seek to be baptized by John the Baptist because He had sinned. Jesus was without sin.

Jesus' baptism probably served many purposes:
1) Jesus joined with the believing remnant of Israel who had been baptized by John.

2) He confirmed John's ministry.

3) He fulfilled the Father's will.

 

[dcyates]

Dr Colin Brown from Fuller Theological Seminary has written an interesting paper called “What was John the Baptist Doing?” He writes – “In emulation of the original entry depicted in the Book of Joshua, John’s baptism called on Israelites to exit the land, and return across the Jordan under the leadership of John in order to repossess the land as a consecrated people. The crossing of the Jordan holds the key to what John was doing”

The question I have is: Why was Jesus baptized by John and why did Jesus say it would “fulfill all righteousness”?

(Just in case you're still interested...)
Colin Brown's interpretation here is almost certainly how John's baptism would have been understood by Second Temple, 1st-century Jews. Looking at your question concerning John's baptism of Jesus, however, and why it was done to "fulfill all righteousness," my understanding (for what it's worth) stems from my overall interpretation of Matthew's Gospel.
Matthew begins with the geneaology of Jesus, starting with Abraham, the one with whom YHWH entered into the covenant that would come to identify the nation of Israel. So, in that sense, Abraham is the first member of YHWH's covenant with Israel, and as such, is the first member of the nation of Israel. Matthew then moves along very deliberately through Israel's history, counting the subsequent generations: "Thus there were fourteen generations from Abraham to David, fourteen generations from David to the Babylonian Exile, and fourteen generations from the Babylonian Exile to the Messiah" (1.17).
As you probably already know, the number seven bore symbolic significance within the ancient Hebrew mind, in that it stood for completeness, wholeness, which in turn was identified with perfection. If something was whole and complete in and of itself, it could be said to be perfect. This symbolism was also applicable to numbers that were multiples of seven. In other words, 14+14+14 could also be rendered as (7+7)+(7+7)+(7+7). In other words, up to this point, Israel was made up of six 'sevens'. She was not complete. Israel was not faithful to her covenant with YHWH, and so was not perfect. God is faithful to his covenant promises, but justice demanded that Israel be faithful to keep up her side of the covenant before God could fulfill those promises. Thus, in order for God to be able to fulfill his covenant promises--and still maintain his innate justice--there needed to be a faithful Israel, which didn't exist. Well, lo and behold, whereas there were six 'sevens' now we have the seventh 'seven'; he who brings Israel to completion. So, (7+7)+(7+7)+(7+7)+7=the Messiah, Jesus.
Matthew then goes on to explicate how Jesus constitutes the true, faithful Israel by recounting how various events in Jesus life recapitulate the key events in the history of the nation of Israel. For instance, the defining moment for the people of Israel is the exodus. In the same way that Jesus' life was jeopardized as a baby by a king overly anxious concerning the security of his throne, and many innocents killed as a result, so also were the lives of the firstborn baby boys of Israel put in jeopardy by pharaoh, due to his fear of the potential security risk to Egypt that so many Hebrew males might pose--and many innocent children were killed as a result. Concerning Jesus' birth, Matthew quotes from Isaiah 7.14: "The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and they will call him 'Immanuel'," commenting that, "The name means 'God is with us'" (Mt 1.23). This is likely a deliberate echo of Exodus 3.12, wherein God declares to Moses, "Surely, I will be with you."
Because of the threat to his life, Jesus' family flees with him to sojourn in Egypt. His eventual return to the Promised Land allows Matthew to cite God's declaration in Hosea 11.1: "Out of Egypt I called my son" (2.15), which is of course a definite reference to the exodus.
Matthew then follows this with his account of John's baptism of Jesus. Thus, just as the people of Israel passed through the waters during the exodus, so also does Jesus, the true, faithful Israel, pass through the waters. (This interpretation is further buttressed by Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians, "For, brothers, I don't want you to miss the significance of what happened to our fathers. All of them were guided by the pillar of cloud, and they all passed through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and the sea" [10.1-2]).
Then, just as God then led Israel into the wilderness, where they ended up wandering for forty years, so also Jesus, led by the Spirit, wandered in the wilderness for forty days and nights.
And Jesus was tested during his wilderness wanderings in the same manner that Israel's faith had failed during their wilderness wanderings. The nation of Israel did not have faith that YHWH would provide for them while in the wilderness. Jesus quotes from Deuteronomy 8.3, "Man does not live by bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of YHWH." Whereas Israel is charged with repeatedly testing YHWH (Ex 17.2, 7; note especially Numbers 14.22, where God declares that because the people of Israel, despite having witnessed his glory and the mighty deeds he performed in Egypt and in the desert, had "tested me these ten times," they will not be allowed to enter into the Promised Land), Jesus proclaims, "Do not put YHWH your God to the test," quoting Deuteronomy 6.16. And finally, whereas Israel had made for themselves an idol in the form of the golden calf and had worshipped it, Jesus imperatively asserts the necessity to: "Worship YHWH your God and serve only him," quoting Deuteronomy 16.13-14.
In other words, Jesus succeeds where the nation of Israel had failed, and hence shows himself to be the true, faithful Israel, whereby and through whom YHWH may fulfill all his covenant promises.
Then, just as Moses had ascended Mount Sinai on Israel's behalf and received the Law, so Matthew follows this with Jesus' sermon on the mount, whereon he expounds on the Law. And finally, after this, Matthew then tells of ten miracles performed by Jesus, which I see is likely best understood as the blessed reversal of the ten plagues YHWH had visited upon Egypt.

 

[johnd]

The question I have is: Why was Jesus baptized by John and why did Jesus say it would “fulfill all righteousness”?

John's baptism was a baptism of repentence. But note the progression here.

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for (unto) the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for (unto) the remission of sins;

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

The baptism was not simply to be sorry for sinning, nor to turn away from them in a strictly individual sense. It was the turning away from sin in totality and from the system of works theology because it could save no one from their sins.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And John the Baptist was prparing the way for the Messiah who was bringing in the New Covenant.

So it was not just baptism to repent of sin, but of the futility of trying to save one's self and to emerge unto the New Covenant of God's total grace for faith in the Lamb of God sacrificed for the sins of the world.

Jesus submitted to the baptism of John not to repent of sin but of the Old Covenant system to usher in the New.

 

[RealityCheck]

Jesus was baptized by John because it was the thing to do.


No seriously.

There is no doubt that Jesus was actually baptized by John, precisely because all four gospels report it and it is was a particularly difficult event for the gospel writers to reconcile with any view of who Jesus was.

Understand that John the Baptist was also viewed as a potential Messiah by many Jews, who were always on the look-out for the coming of the Messiah. To many, John's message of baptism and repentance sounded much like what they were expecting, because "repentance" was necessary with the Kingdom of God "at hand". Jesus went to be baptized by John, but for what purpose?

If you subscribe to the view that Jesus was sinless, then baptism was unnecessary. If you believe Jesus is divine, then baptism is unnecessary. And even if you believed that Jesus was the annointed one (human Messiah) elevated by God, why again is the baptism necessary, especially since John is inferior to the Messiah? How can the Messiah be baptised by someone lower than him?

This was the problem the gospel writers had. The baptism was a well-known event, evidently, or else they would not have needed to include the event. And yet Jesus does not baptize John, which is what ought to have happened.

When the Gospel writers went to work on their writings, there were still many followers of John, as there were followers of Jesus. And both sides proclaimed their central figure as the Messiah. But John's side had an advantage, John had baptized Jesus, so logically according to Judaic beliefs Jesus could not be the Messiah. It had to be John that was the Messiah.

Thus, the gospel writers took great pains to make it seem as if the baptism somehow fulfilled scripture. But what scriptures? What prophecies? What does it fulfill? That actually is not explained!

(In the end, the sects that believed in John as the Messiah died out and went into the history books, primarily because they did not have a Paul who evangelized Gentiles - the John followers remained strictly Jewish and never, ever considered reaching out to non-Jews.)

 

[justified]

If you examine the narratives closely, in each of them the spirit is associated with them. Thus, in his baptism Christ receives the spirit (thus the dove/bird motif). This is the official start of his ministry when he receives his power from "on high."

 

[Onomatopoeia]

I fear that I might be thinking in over-simplified terms, but something that RealityCheck mentioned:

Jesus was baptized by John because it was the thing to do.

falls in line with the point I wanted to make...

Jesus was baptised by John because Jesus' life was meant to be an example to us of how to live. As Jesus was baptised, so should we be.

Again, maybe I'm thinking too simply, but that has always been my understanding of why Jesus was baptised by John.

 

[RealityCheck]

If you examine the narratives closely, in each of them the spirit is associated with them. Thus, in his baptism Christ receives the spirit (thus the dove/bird motif). This is the official start of his ministry when he receives his power from "on high."

This is correct for three of the gospels (M, M, L) but not for John. In the synoptic gospels, Jesus's ministry does "officially" begin with the baptism, so the baptism is explained this way. But this can't be right for John, because in John, Jesus is the pre-existent "logos" of God, and therefore already has the power of God with him. John therefore has to explain the baptism differently, as "fulfillment" of all things (but again, what things?).

 

[justified]

But this can't be right for John, because in John, Jesus is the pre-existent "logos" of God, and therefore already has the power of God with him. John therefore has to explain the baptism differently, as "fulfillment" of all things (but again, what things?).

actually, it functions the same (cf. Keener and Brown). You are looking at it from a theological POV, I'm looking at it from a narrative POV. cf. John 1:32-34.