Why use it?

[Skaloop]

Saying, "Jesus Christ!" or other religiously themed curses are semantically vacuous. They are speech acts that are taken to mean something that isn't literally in the words themselves.

Just a slight linguistic nitpick here. I agree with you, but to be accurate, no word has its meaning literally in it. All words, written, spoken, signed, or otherwise, are symbolic.

Well, except maybe onomatopoeias, but even that's a stretch.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Just a slight linguistic nitpick here. I agree with you, but to be accurate, no word has its meaning literally in it. All words, written, spoken, signed, or otherwise, are symbolic.

Well, except maybe onomatopoeias, but even that's a stretch.

I don't think Philips meant that "JC" in a curse context has no meaning. But it does not mean that the utterer is yelling at Jesus or asking Jesus to intervene.

Cursing is heavily limbic system-dependent. We learn some words and phrases from parents and peers that express not so much semantics but emotional states, and they're hard to get rid of because they're associated with those emotional states - and emotions are under very little conscious control.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I don't think Philips meant that "JC" in a curse context has no meaning. But it does not mean that the utterer is yelling at Jesus or asking Jesus to intervene.

Cursing is heavily limbic system-dependent. We learn some words and phrases from parents and peers that express not so much semantics but emotional states, and they're hard to get rid of because they're associated with those emotional states - and emotions are under very little conscious control.

perhaps the emotion, yes, but I would think we'd be able to excercise control of the words we use! I don't think that it's ingrained to blaspheme.

 

[CrusaderofReason]

I use your lords name in vain often. it adds emphasis.

 

[TeddyKGB]

perhaps the emotion, yes, but I would think we'd be able to excercise control of the words we use! I don't think that it's ingrained to blaspheme.

No, insofar as blasphemy requires some conscious action.

Again, we associate curses with particular emotional states-of-mind rather than external referents. And while the word or phrase itself might be stored in a fixed location in the brain (note: I don't know if this is actually true), access to the word might be provided by a dozen different neuronal pathways, one or more of which might originate in the limbic system.

 

[Skaloop]

No, insofar as blasphemy requires some conscious action.

Again, we associate curses with particular emotional states-of-mind rather than external referents. And while the word or phrase itself might be stored in a fixed location in the brain (note: I don't know if this is actually true), access to the word might be provided by a dozen different neuronal pathways, one or more of which might originate in the limbic system.

Sort of an induced-Tourette's situation, perhaps?

 

[Uphill Battle]

No, insofar as blasphemy requires some conscious action.

Again, we associate curses with particular emotional states-of-mind rather than external referents. And while the word or phrase itself might be stored in a fixed location in the brain (note: I don't know if this is actually true), access to the word might be provided by a dozen different neuronal pathways, one or more of which might originate in the limbic system.

how then, does someone who was not a believer, and becomes one, able to refrain from the blasephemy? does their limbic system alter at conversion?

 

[Skaloop]

how then, does someone who was not a believer, and becomes one, able to refrain from the blasephemy? does their limbic system alter at conversion?

First, you'd have to show that they do refrain from blasphemy. Their limbic system certainly does not alter at conversion, but they might certainly be able to exert some control over it whereas they didn't before.

 

[JohnLocke]

The vulgar and the profane are societal constructs, which is why on not infrequently seemingly "religious" curses are used by non-religious or even irreligious persons.

Take a look at Romeo and Juliet, where we learn that the vulgar and profane extended to "Zounds!" which was a slang contraction of "God's Wounds!" itself a conceit to the wounds of the Christ suffered during the Passion.

Strange, but no stranger than any of the new words that are used for vulgarities and profanities, none of which, I suppose, I can get into here, but I think you can pick up what I'm laying down.

Cheers!

 

[TeddyKGB]

Sort of an induced-Tourette's situation, perhaps?

As I understand it, coprolalia (sp?) is a minority symptom of Tourette's and isn't even required for diagnosis. Whatever is going on neurologically with TS sufferers, it doesn't seem to be localized in the limbic system.

 

[Adriac]

This is a question to atheists, agnostics, etc....

I was wondering if anyone who curses, (and We all do at one point or another...) whether or not they use the lords name in vain when doing so. If an atheist were to use the name of Jesus Christ, but as a curse, it makes me wonder exactly why.

Have you ever used the name of something you don't believe exists as a curse? Why do so?

To express anger. Or irritation. Or surprise. Or bewilderment. Or amusement.

I don't actually believe that the object of my exasperation has been copulating with anyone's mother. That's not the point of the expression.

It's odd that you would choose to analyze this so closely-- perhaps the least meaningful set of words we use in conversation.

 

[katautumn]

As a mother of a four-year-old little boy who hears everything and repeats it, I have to really censor my language around him. I never use the Lord's name in vain around the general populace out of respect. Same way I try not to use the "bad" swear words in front of others because you never know who may be offended or if there's children in close proximity. I don't say the bad word using God's name in front of anyone except my husband and it's usually done when I'm in the throes of an angry rant about a particular subject.

Why would someone who doesn't believe in God curse his name? Not sure. I really can't explain the psychology behind it. I know for me it's just language I've heard all my life and I guess it's just sort of a habit. I wouldn't say it's ingrained, however, as I can exercise restraint over my choice of words any time I wish. Every so often I'll slip and then offer my apologies to those around me, particularly in mixed company. It's simply being tactful. I'm not one of those people who say, "well, if someone's offended too bad!" I can at least exercise couth and discretion in public and around my family.

Uphill Battle, I can understand how you as a believer would be offended by the taking of your Lord's name in vain. I would hope that those closest to you who may or may not be of the same faith would be considerate and not let the blasphemous swear words fly; however, people of all stripes use these terms (even some Christians, particularly when they get angry) so we really can't try and dissect the logic and reasoning behind any group of people choosing to use such choice words and phrases. It's just the way life goes.

And to answer, in the simplest of responses, to why someone who doesn't believe in God would choose to use his name as part of a swear would be similar to asking why a diehard feminist would ever use the "b" word. It may seem like a contradiction, but really it's just the way things go sometimes.

 

[Eudaimonist]

This is a question to atheists, agnostics, etc....

I was wondering if anyone who curses, (and We all do at one point or another...) whether or not they use the lords name in vain when doing so. If an atheist were to use the name of Jesus Christ, but as a curse, it makes me wonder exactly why.

Not normally. Maybe on very rare occasions.

Have you ever used the name of something you don't believe exists as a curse? Why do so?

It's a minor habit I retain from my Christian days. To me, it's very mild profanity on the level of "Gosh darn it!" It doesn't carry much weight. It expresses mild irritation.

I sometimes use it when I don't want to use four-letter words that might be less polite when overheard by others.

I honestly don't think that existence has anything to do with the strength of profanity. Some of the most creative profanity is, let's face it, anatomically impossible. It's the emotion surrounding the concept that gives profanity weight, and religion can have some emotional baggage even after becoming an atheist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Whilst I would say that swearing and 'blaspheming' are somewhat ingrained in me, that is not to say I cannot contol them. In fact, I generally find that I don't even need to think about 'controlling' my language...I usually subconsciously use language appropriate to the context. Which is why I don't even think about the fact that I'm swearing when talking to friends, but don't swear (loudly) in front of teachers etc. Well, when I'm sober, that is... Reason #12 from my collection, 'Reasons that you shouldn't get drunk in front of your parish priest', based on personal experience.

Just a slight linguistic nitpick here. I agree with you, but to be accurate, no word has its meaning literally in it. All words, written, spoken, signed, or otherwise, are symbolic.

Well, except maybe onomatopoeias, but even that's a stretch.

Good point. Structuralism* would argue that the structural context of the words defines their meaning. I'm sure we've all heard, and said, words that are not normally expletive used in such a way. And they are completely understood. If I bang my head and say "Sausages!" then everyone will know that I'm not actually talking about meat. Similarly, if I shout out the name of Jesus, people will know I'm not talking about the Founder of Christianity.

*(It's great being able to go on internet message boards are revise social anthropology at the same time )

peace

 

[Uphill Battle]

To express anger. Or irritation. Or surprise. Or bewilderment. Or amusement.

I don't actually believe that the object of my exasperation has been copulating with anyone's mother. That's not the point of the expression.

It's odd that you would choose to analyze this so closely-- perhaps the least meaningful set of words we use in conversation.

depends on your point of view. My curiosity lies in the use of Jesus' or God's names in a curse, by someone who doesn't acknowledge that the name(s) amount to someone whom exists.

For instance, you'd be hard pressed to find many bible believing Christians who shout the name of Zeus, or some such, when using it as an expletive.

 

[Uphill Battle]

As a mother of a four-year-old little boy who hears everything and repeats it, I have to really censor my language around him. I never use the Lord's name in vain around the general populace out of respect. Same way I try not to use the "bad" swear words in front of others because you never know who may be offended or if there's children in close proximity. I don't say the bad word using God's name in front of anyone except my husband and it's usually done when I'm in the throes of an angry rant about a particular subject.

Why would someone who doesn't believe in God curse his name? Not sure. I really can't explain the psychology behind it. I know for me it's just language I've heard all my life and I guess it's just sort of a habit. I wouldn't say it's ingrained, however, as I can exercise restraint over my choice of words any time I wish. Every so often I'll slip and then offer my apologies to those around me, particularly in mixed company. It's simply being tactful. I'm not one of those people who say, "well, if someone's offended too bad!" I can at least exercise couth and discretion in public and around my family.

Uphill Battle, I can understand how you as a believer would be offended by the taking of your Lord's name in vain. I would hope that those closest to you who may or may not be of the same faith would be considerate and not let the blasphemous swear words fly; however, people of all stripes use these terms (even some Christians, particularly when they get angry) so we really can't try and dissect the logic and reasoning behind any group of people choosing to use such choice words and phrases. It's just the way life goes.

And to answer, in the simplest of responses, to why someone who doesn't believe in God would choose to use his name as part of a swear would be similar to asking why a diehard feminist would ever use the "b" word. It may seem like a contradiction, but really it's just the way things go sometimes.

Guess it is just how life goes.

For the record, I'm not overtly offended when someone who doesn't believe in Christ uses his name in vain. I can hardly expect that they would understand why it would bother me, nor should I assume that they would follow my beliefs, if they do not believe in themselves. (Desire perhaps, but not EXPECT.)

 

[Scell]

I use GD all the time and JC on occasion. Just a habit. Doesn't mean to me what it means to you, obviously.

Actually it was doing just that which caused me to research beliefs and think for myself. I offended a teacher in school (7th 8th grade maybe) once by saying "GDarn it" and got a lecture why I shouldn't use it in vain, blah blah blah.

So that was a determining factor in forming my own belief. Unrelated, I know...just figured I'd share

 

[Savage78]

It is a common argument that because people say JC when they curse means that somewhere deep down inside they are believers. That is a pretty ignorant argument to make, the fact is that the words "jesus christ" are common cuss words and are simply that to most people, just words.

I will give you another example, I am quite fond of saying "bugger me". Now if you take the word buggered:

v. bug·gered, bug·ger·ing, bug·gers Vulgar Slang v.intr. To practice sodomy.

It certainly doesnt mean that I want to get sodomized. Its just a word, just a slang.

 

[quatona]

This is a question to atheists, agnostics, etc....

I was wondering if anyone who curses, (and We all do at one point or another...) whether or not they use the lords name in vain when doing so.

No, I don´t.

Have you ever used the name of something you don't believe exists as a curse?

Yes, I have.

Why do so?

I guess, because cursing is an emotional outburst, and not a controlled intellectual exercise.
On another note, I don´t know that using a name of something you believe exists makes cursing more rational than using a name of something you don´t believe exists.

 

[Seygram]

I say "God damn it" or "Jesus Christ" just like I say "Bless you" when someone sneezes. It doesn't really mean anything; it's just something people say.