WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

[Saint Steven]

Your forgetting that I’ve repeatedly stated that He may have a good reason for making His decision. Maybe those who reject Him will never truly repent, maybe they would only continue to bring sin into heaven. There are a number of different reasons that would explain why He made that decision. God is both omniscient and omnipresent, we are not so He knows the whole story, we don’t. Your the one calling Him a tyrant not me. I never said that if God did anything then He would be a tyrant, that was your words not mine.

Thanks for your reply.
I'm curious as to why you refuse to own up to the obvious.

It is your position in reference to the final judgment that makes God a tyrant, not mine. But you are happy to turn the blame back on me for pointing that out.

Saint Steven said: ↑
It's a curious thing that some can't understand that their view of God makes him a tyrant. And even turn the blame back on those who point it out.

 

[Saint Steven]

Your forgetting that I’ve repeatedly stated that He may have a good reason for making His decision. Maybe those who reject Him will never truly repent, maybe they would only continue to bring sin into heaven. There are a number of different reasons that would explain why He made that decision.

The Bible tells us that every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

How can you posit that some will not "truly" repent? Or that they "would only continue to bring sin into heaven"?

 

[Saint Steven]

Your forgetting that I’ve repeatedly stated that He may have a good reason for making His decision.

Adolf Hitler was solving the "Jewish problem".
Does that reasoning change your view of what he did?

 

[Saint Steven]

Maybe those who reject Him will never truly repent, maybe they would only continue to bring sin into heaven.

Wouldn't that mean that sin is bigger than grace?
Will the grace of God be defeated by sin?
There is a REAL problem with that plan.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm curious as to why you refuse to own up to the obvious.

It is your position in reference to the final judgment that makes God a tyrant, not mine. But you are happy to turn the blame back on me for pointing that out.

Saint Steven said: ↑
It's a curious thing that some can't understand that their view of God makes him a tyrant. And even turn the blame back on those who point it out.

Is God a tyrant if He punishes people in the lake of fire for all eternity because He has foreseen that they will always reject Him or because they will always be defiant?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Bible tells us that every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

How can you posit that some will not "truly" repent? Or that they "would only continue to bring sin into heaven"?

The people Jesus mentioned in Matthew 7 did that. We’re they truly repentant? No they were false professors. It’s one thing to beg for forgiveness because you fear the consequences and it’s an entirely different thing to feel true heart felt remorse.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Adolf Hitler was solving the "Jewish problem".
Does that reasoning change your view of what he did?

I don’t even know how this association makes any sense at all in comparison to what I said.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wouldn't that mean that sin is bigger than grace?
Will the grace of God be defeated by sin?
There is a REAL problem with that plan.

Only those who accept Christ receive grace, hence “by grace you have been saved thru faith”. Those who don’t have faith do not have grace.

 

[Saint Steven]

Is God a tyrant if He punishes people in the lake of fire for all eternity because He has foreseen that they will always reject Him or because they will always be defiant?

Eternity is a long time. Endless suffering with no hope of escape. No one deserves that.

And frankly, it would only take about ten seconds of that for anyone to change their mind. So, what is the point of an eternity if not sadistic torture?

 

[Saint Steven]

The people Jesus mentioned in Matthew 7 did that. We’re they truly repentant? No they were false professors. It’s one thing to beg for forgiveness because you fear the consequences and it’s an entirely different thing to feel true heart felt remorse.

How are such things measured?
Could you have been more remorseful? (sure)
Were you remorseful enough? (who knows?)

 

[Saint Steven]

I don’t even know how this association makes any sense at all in comparison to what I said.

He would say that he did what he did with a good reason.
And would be glad to scream at you to explain himself.
Does that mean he wasn't a tyrant?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Adolf Hitler was solving the "Jewish problem".
Does that reasoning change your view of what he did?

 

[Saint Steven]

Only those who accept Christ receive grace, hence “by grace you have been saved thru faith”. Those who don’t have faith do not have grace.

I think meeting Jesus in the afterlife will be very convincing. There will be no "unbelievers" in the afterlife.

 

[ozso]

I think meeting Jesus in the afterlife will be very convincing. There will be no "unbelievers" in the afterlife.

That is an inarguable point. It would be impossible for them to no longer believe in Jesus when he's standing in front of them in heaven.

 

[Saint Steven]

That is an inarguable point. It would be impossible for them to no longer believe in Jesus when he's standing in front of them in heaven.

Yes, absolutely!

Like Saul on the road to Damascus to persecute the church.
The "chief of sinners" had this to say.

Acts 9:5-6
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

 

[Saint Steven]

That is an inarguable point. It would be impossible for them to no longer believe in Jesus when he's standing in front of them in heaven.

And more than simply convincing, they would be met with absolute love. Not the fury of revenge most would anticipate. He died for them. What more proof do we need?

Matthew 9:36 NIV
When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

 

[Saint Steven]

And more than simply convincing, they would be met with absolute love. Not the fury of revenge most would anticipate. He died for them. What more proof do we need?

Sorry, @MMXX you really lit my fuse on this one. - lol

This is where anything short of UR fails miserably. Not understanding who God is and what he is about. Tantamount to idolatry in my view. A god created in their own image.

 

[rjs330]

Koreshic Oath. Again, not much to you, just a sworn oath of God (ikr who cares?) and is repeated twice in the NT. Isa 45:23, Rom 14:11, Phil 2:10

I have addressed this many times. This is not a UR salvation verse. To claim so, makes Christ a contradictory Lord. Because he said not everyone who calls him Lord will be received into the kingdom. So no this not a everyone gets saved verse. It's that everyone will one day see Christ as who he is and they won't be able to deny the fact that he is Lord.

 

[rjs330]

Renovation Declaration. Again, who gives a rats if God claims He's is making everything new. Nothing to do with UR. Rev 21:5

You know it's interesting that you accused me of having an incomplete Bible.
Yet you post an incomplete passage of scripture. Showing again how those that believe in UR take scripture out of context in order to support a belief system.

Here is the scripture in context.

And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. - Revelation 21:5-8 Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 21:5-8 - American Standard Version

So once again we see from scriptural context that the verse you used has nothing to do with UR.

 

[rjs330]

Hasn't that always already been case with unbelievers?

No because we are not saved. UR claims we can do all that and are still saved no matter what.

 

[rjs330]

Cessationism.

I don't think that's a Pentecostal belief is it?