Why those Arminians?

[ContraMundum]

I was an Arminian for twelve years. I never heard about the sovereignty of God, man's utter and total depravity, God's great wrath against the wicked, etc.

Funny, I attended an "Arminian" seminary for four years and I heard all about that stuff, and they believed it too. (I later attended a Lutheran sem so I got yet another view well apart from both Calvin and Arminius!)

However, I did hear about how terrible, unbiblical, mean-spirited, legalistic, and unloving the Calvinists were.

Sadly, I heard that too. But, thankfully I was taught that such an attitude towards fellow believers was unChristian.

Now, once in a while I may make a joke at the expense of an Arminian, but only to a fellow Calvinist

I heard some absolutely brilliant jokes at the expense of Calvinism when I was there too. My favorite was when I was handed a tract based on the "Four Spiritual Laws" from a "Calvinist" perspective. The first spiritual law was "God hates you and has a terrible plan for your life". Hilarious, really. Of course it was mere parody and that was all it was regarded as. I genuinely think that it's ok to have a little fun at the expense of other theological viewpoints, and even your own, as long as you keep logs and specks out of your own eyes too.

 

[seekingpurity047]

Hmm..which version do you have? I'm curious because I did a search for that word on Biblegateway and came up with zero, I think I did the search within the guidelines of the KJV. I'll check out those verses you talked about. But Almighty gives a much more complete definition of complete control than sovereign.

You are aware that the KJV is one of the lesser of the bible translations.... right?

Sovereign is everywhere in the ESV and the NASB, and those translations are way more accurate.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[ghs1994]

I won't get into a translation war because it is pointless.

 

[Reformationist]

I hear you, Erin. One of the reasons that I ultimately decided to leave my former Baptist church is that I had a conversation with the pastor in which he displayed a sad lack of understanding of Baptist history. He told me that William Carey became a Baptist because he disagreed with the Presbyterians' evangelism-killing Calvinism -- hogwash! Of course, what Carey had encountered in some churches, and what he vehemently disagreed with, was the unBiblical monstrosity known as hyper-Calvinism. However, this pastor did not know the difference between historic Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism! He also told me that while Spurgeon was a Calvinist, he also preached the doctrine of human free will. (??!!) Soon after that conversation, I began my search for a new church home. Praise God, this search led me to Capitol Hill Baptist Chuch, where the God-exalting truth of the Reformation is known and preached!

On the topic of the thread, I do agree that some Calvinists can display a harsh, unloving spirit in their attitudes toward Arminians. This is a shame and an affront to God (a particularly insidious one, too, in that said Calvinists seem to think that in being so harsh, they are "standing up for the truth"). However, as others have said, many Arminians can also be quite harsh and unloving (not to mention inaccurate!) both in how they treat us and how they describe what we believe.

The bottom line for me is that we are all sinners, and our sin creeps into everything that we say, do, and think-- including our interactions with those who hold differing beliefs. In speaking with Arminians, we need to guard our hearts, through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit, and pray to God for help in loving and being patient with them. I say this especially in light of the humbling fact that I was an Arminian until last year. I was a Christian, I honestly loved God, but I lacked understanding (and probably, at times, the willingness to understand certain things). Thanks be to God that, in His sovereign mercy, He gave me understanding (by further opening my eyes) and the willingness to understand (by further softening my heart).

I tell ya, I am liking your posts more and more every time I am priviledged to read them.

Thank you,
God bless

 

[seekingpurity047]

I won't get into a translation war because it is pointless.

You KJV-only?

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[ghs1994]

You KJV-only?

To the glory of God,

Randy

No, not at all. I use NASB also. I am thinking of getting an ESV, but haven't studied in it too much to draw any conclusions. I just consider most of the word for word, but I only did the search in the KJV. "Almighty" is a word I see fitting better God's description than the world "sovereign", at least the English dictionary seems to give it more prominence. But that's kinda tomato/tomaaaato I suppose.

 

[Erinwilcox]

You KJV-only?

To the glory of God,

Randy

Oh dear. Here we go! I think that what was meant by not getting into a translation war was that some people pointlessly argue for only one translation of the Bible. I use the KJV Bible, but that is personal preference. . .I'm definitley not KJV only. However, the Bible that I use was given to me by a very dear and godly woman. In the back of it, it had all of these tables, pictures, and arguements telling of how wonderful the KJV was and how wicked, evil, and devil-sent every other translation of the Bible was. It had a tree that showed the good fruit-the KJV and a tree that showed the evil fruit-every other translation. WHOOAAHH!!! Needless to say, I cut that part out of my Bible so that nobody would see it and think that I believed any of that stuff! While I do think that there are some versions of the Bible that border on heretical (some do more than border, like the gender-neutral Bible), I wouldn't argue against some of the very good translations. . .NKJV, NASV, etc.

 

[vangelicmonk]

As to poking fun at the Arminians. . .let me speak for myself. I was an Arminian for twelve years. I never heard about the sovereignty of God, man's utter and total depravity, God's great wrath against the wicked, etc. However, I did hear about how terrible, unbiblical, mean-spirited, legalistic, and unloving the Calvinists were. Now, once in a while I may make a joke at the expense of an Arminian, but only to a fellow Calvinist. I mean, that song "Arminian Grace" was pretty funny. But would I give that to an Arminian and laugh in his face?!? Absolutely not! I was an Arminian and had no idea that there was any other credible way to interpret the Bible. Would I have become a Calvinist if someone had poked fun of my beliefs (well, I guess yes since God predestined for me to be one, but aside from that)? Not willingly. We do pray for the Arminians-that God would open their eyes and unstop their ears. Have you heard all of the nasty stuff that they say about the Calvinists? I won't repeat it. I think that an occasional laugh is better than that.

I thought this was interesting as you are only 17 and you were Arminion for 12 of those years? lol. sorry, but the Arminian jokes just come to mind. Eh, bashing Arminians is Calvinists favorite things to do. If they made cartoons Bugs Bunny would be a Calvin and Fudd would be a stupid Arminian. I think its kinda sad that Calvinists are stuck in the mode of Bashing Arminians. I think its just as stupid as the Christian preoccupation of bashing the ACLU. Sure the ACLU does a lot of stupid things, but some "liberties" they promote are actually a good thing. I think Calvinist should do like the days of old and put the 5 points as essentials and call the rest of us Christians (4 points or less) as unsaved and heretical. Common. This guy does it: http://www.outsidethecamp.org/ Heck. This guy is so Hyper he is like Knox after two expressos.


oh yeah and by the way I'm NKJV only!!!!! Stupid old version is wrong and every other version is a perversion. lol. jk.

 

[CCWoody]

I thought this was interesting as you are only 17 and you were Arminion for 12 of those years? lol. sorry, but the Arminian jokes just come to mind. Eh, bashing Arminians is Calvinists favorite things to do. If they made cartoons Bugs Bunny would be a Calvin and Fudd would be a stupid Arminian. I think its kinda sad that Calvinists are stuck in the mode of Bashing Arminians. I think its just as stupid as the Christian preoccupation of bashing the ACLU. Sure the ACLU does a lot of stupid things, but some "liberties" they promote are actually a good thing. I think Calvinist should do like the days of old and put the 5 points as essentials and call the rest of us Christians (4 points or less) as unsaved and heretical. Common. This guy does it: http://www.outsidethecamp.org/ Heck. This guy is so Hyper he is like Knox after two expressos.


oh yeah and by the way I'm NKJV only!!!!! Stupid old version is wrong and every other version is a perversion. lol. jk.

Ah, to be type cast just for being a Calvinist.

Dave Hunt, is that you?

 

[Erinwilcox]

Alright, I confess, I'm only seventeen. . .but I really was an Arminian for twelve years! When I became a Calvinist, I was old enough to be able to remember all or most of what went on in the Arminian churches that I attended (yes, churches plural, we went to several) and I was also old enough to realize the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. Only God could make me realize which was the better of the two, though.

 

[pinkieposies]

You are aware that the KJV is one of the lesser of the bible translations.... right?

Well, I wasn't aware of that! Why is that?

My church is strictly KJV {I don't really know the specifics of why}, but at home we use the NKJV too. I think I just personally prefer the KJV because it is so beautifully and poetically written {Though I don't know if that is a legitmate reason}.

God Bless,
Erin

 

[CCWoody]

Alright, I confess, I'm only seventeen. . .but I really was an Arminian for twelve years! When I became a Calvinist, I was old enough to be able to remember all or most of what went on in the Arminian churches that I attended (yes, churches plural, we went to several) and I was also old enough to realize the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. Only God could make me realize which was the better of the two, though.

Don't worry about it. It is not you. It is just the fact that you are 17 and you are a Calvinist. But, hey, look on the bright side, you haven't been type cast because of your gender yet.

Just so you know, I don't find it a threat that a young Calvinist woman might actually know something, even if you are less than half my age and young enough to be a daughter (you are actually only 2 years different from mine anyway).

 

[cygnusx1]

My theology is quite simple.

1. God is Almighty(since you won't find sovereign in the bible and almighty is a much more complete definition).

RSV

4Ezra.3

1. [4] "O sovereign Lord, didst thou not speak at the beginning when thou didst form the earth -- and that without help -- and didst command the dust

4Ezra.4

1. [38] Then I answered and said, "O sovereign Lord, but all of us also are full of ungodliness.

4Ezra.5

1. [23] And I said, "O sovereign Lord, from every forest of the earth and from all its trees thou hast chosen one vine,
2. [38] And I said, "O sovereign Lord, who is able to know these things except he whose dwelling is not with men?

4Ezra.6

1. [11] I answered and said, "O sovereign Lord, if I have found favor in thy sight,

4Ezra.7

1. [17] Then I answered and said, "O sovereign Lord, behold, thou hast ordained in thy law that the righteous shall inherit these things, but that the ungodly shall perish.
2. [45] I answered and said, "O sovereign Lord, I said then and I say now: Blessed are those who are alive and keep thy commandments!
3. [58] I said, "O sovereign Lord, what is plentiful is of less worth, for what is more rare is more precious."

4Ezra.12

1. [7] And I said, "O sovereign Lord, if I have found favor in thy sight, and if I have been accounted righteous before thee beyond many others, and if my prayer has indeed come up before thy face,

4Ezra.13

1. [51] I said, "O sovereign Lord, explain this to me: Why did I see the man coming up from the heart of the sea?"

Acts.4

1. [24] And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,

1Tim.6

1. [15] and this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

Rev.6

1. [10] they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?"

now what was it someone was saying about translations