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Why this hate for Islam?

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HumbleSiPilot77

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Funny how none of that approaches my points at all.

You might want to read it again, it is not my fault you are delusional.

Of course, posturing and proclaiming victory when it is not even in sight

Not even in sight? Where is Odin again?

How's that "Surge" doing?

Very well, too bad you can't come to check it out, it is easier to fart behind the screen.

In fact the Iraq war is a perfect analogy for Christianity...

In your deluded head maybe you see resemblance, although Christianity didn't start as this war did. They weren't wanted and they were killed for it. And someone who was not a Christian helped them to achieve victory, not themselves. So, go back to your books and find me a better analogy, less delusional effects preferred.
Hypocritical self-interest masquerading as "goodness" who can't tell when everyone hates you...what do you know, I guess America is a "Christian nation"!

Everyone? Not really,only your pathetic self which is really amusing...

Whatever, kid.

You have to grow up and stop playing WoW before you address me like that.


Sure, life is a movie, you're the "good guy", and at the end you will get a medal from god.

The best part of that is, you do not know who gets what. That will be a funny ending.

Here we have it folks, our "Obi-Wan" and his bride, heroes of modern American Christianity!

Yep, that is the Obi-Wan that beat the heck out of your unbeatable mentality. Take that message to your non-existent gods.

YEEEEEHHHHHAAAAAAAWWWWW!

Quiet you are going to scare your elves.
 
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Jebediah

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blah blah blah self-congratulatory ignorant rant

Odin's alive and well, and the various forms of His restored worship are growing. Ask your chaplain for the entries on Wicca (which is currently the blanket term for all pagan groups) and the soon so be added entry on Asatru. Format look familiar?:
It's not my fault you are delusional. Perhaps it's the blinders you have on, there, Clitus.

And I don't play WoW. Look's like you got your intelligence wrong...again.

You're beginning to bore me.
 
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GeratTzedek

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All of us have our bad moments or bad days when we are just irritable and impatient and says things without tact. I am guilty.

But when it goes on and on and on and... one ad hominem attack after another... It gives the impression that the person doesn't care how they treat others.

Dudes, and you know who you are, you aren't accomplishing anything except to create poor reputations for yourselves. Please, not for me or anyone else, but for your own self, consider taking a deep breath and resolve to attack issues and ideas and beliefs rather than people. No one is fooled by ranting against another -- it convinces no one of anything other than the immaturity of the person ranting. Be the bigger man, and let the other rant without replying in kind.

And for those with whom I've lost my own patience, and crossed the line between attacking ideas and people, I ask your forgiveness.
 
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Meshavrischika

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rude discussion doesn't accomplish anything. I agree with GT...
 
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JohnLocke

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Why do I hate Islam?

And I do. Not especially proud of that, but here goes:

1. Submission to Islamic Law. The lack of a co-equal place for non-Islamics in Islamic lands.

2. The ease with which it appears Islam can be used to persuade otherwise reasonable people to engage in terroristic activities.

3. The offensive rhetoric of various Islamic political leaders, many coming from Iran, who demonize my country, my political and economic system, and call for terrorist attacks against innocent civilians who couldn't even find Iran on the map, much have done anything to any Iranian.

4. The denigration of Jesus from Deity to mere prophet.

5. The totalitarian nature of many Islamic regimes that operate to inhibit trade, censor the various forms of inquiry and expression.

If there were more acceptance of a secular government in Islam, or actual tolerance of persons of different faith, then I would hope to make the distinction between the so-called, "militant-terrorist Islamic" and "Islam." But I cannot. It is like Communism. Islam as an ideology is fundamentally incompatible and opposed to my world view, the freedoms that I am prepared to kill and be killed defending.

Under such circumstances, how can there be anything but hate? Were Islam to have its way, most of the things that I value politically, economically, and socially would be unlawful and prohibited.

Cheers,
 
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peaceful soul

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It will be difficult to improve on that, JohnLocke. That is the essence of the issue I have with Islam too. Muslims don't even comprehend what their religion is all about in respect to other people who are not Muslims. I could say more, but I don't want to spoil your well thought out reply. All of Islam is not bad, but it is bad enough to deny the true freedoms of others. Once you give in to Islam, there is not recourse. You can't gain back your freedoms. And they won't care because all they will value is Islam, even if it goes against common sense.
 
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randomman

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why the hypocrisy

if someone leaves christianity, your God is going to burn him alive for eternity in the afterlife... where is the freedom in that
 
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elwill

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1. Submission to Islamic Law. The lack of a co-equal place for non-Islamics in Islamic lands.
which islamic countries you visit ?
what do you mean by co_equal place for non-islamics

2. The ease with which it appears Islam can be used to persuade otherwise reasonable people to engage in terroristic activities.
oh God , not again

there are many types of hates
if you hate islam , you must talks about islam faith , islam teachings
if you hate muslims , you must mention reasons which common with majority muslims in the world
if you hate specific muslims country personally because of political problems , so not attach your peoblems with islam

if you hate bad muslims , so we not responsible for their actions , there are bad and good people within every relegion

peace
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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if someone leaves christianity, your God is going to burn him alive for eternity in the afterlife... where is the freedom in that

Too bad you can't back that up with Scriptures and it is all idle talk. Christians tend to believe a sovereign God who is capable of perfect judgment, and who is merciful and saves by grace, if that is something foreign to your understanding.
 
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uberd00b

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While you guys fight over whose imaginary entity has the bigger penis the rest of us non-believers will try and make the world a better place. Religion in it's current form offers nothing but conflict, and is its own worst enemy. As society progresses it will hopefully fade into our superstitious past.
 
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Meshavrischika

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I agree with this. (though I cling to Christ) I find religion of any type, when organized, to be the epitome of what is NOT wholesome and right. (not applicable to all, but IMO probably 90%)
 
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JohnLocke

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1. What does a co-equal place for non-islamics mean?

In basic it would require that there are no political, economic or social rights or obligations that differ between those of Islamic faith and those who are not Islamic. As I understand it, Islam, as a faith, is opposed to secular government, meaning that it is impossible for Islam to fulfill this as any collection of large numbers of people will develop government and the only institution that Islam allows to exercise that function is religiously based, thereby denying any non-Islamic the opportunity to participate in meaningful political leadership. There are also the historical examples of special taxes and duties levied against persons of non-Islamic faith that Islamics were not required to pay or endure.

It would also require that the State (which under Islam,as a faith doesn't really exist) enforce my right as a non-Islamic to believe as I chose, dress as I chose, provide my daughters with cars and allow them to drive, hold any profession, etc. etc.


2. Which Islamic countries have I visited? Egypt and Saudi Arabia

3. As for the rest of your exposition:

Hate need not be reasonable, so most of your "reasoning" is largely irrelevant. But to address some of each.

Is the hatred engendered by Fascism, solely due to its political philosophy or is part of it inextricably wrapped up in the evil that individuals and nations have done in the name of Fascism?

But allow me to ask this?
1. Does Islam, as an abstract, provide for the existence and maintenance of a secular government? A pluralistic society wherein the rights of all are equal without regard to gender, race, religion, etc?

2. Does Islam, as an abstract, allow for the lending of monies, the mortgage of property, or any extension of credit?

3. Does Islam recognize the right of territorial conquest for any party other than Islam? To explain, I have heard it said that one form of jihad involves "retaking" Islamic lands, and that "Islamic land" is defined as any land wherein Islam has made a significant presence even if it were not a majority therein, and even if that presence was made by force of arms. Further that a piece of geography once attaining the status of "Islamic land" never loses it. Thus it is alway subject to being an appropriate target for this form of jihad. For example most of Iberia. By contrast, I know of no one in the Islamic community who recognizes Israel's right of conquest over Palestine.

As I said, hate is not generally reasonable, but if you wish to engage in a more reasoned debate, I suspect the terms would be more along the lines of these:

"Is Islam, as a social/political/religious ideology fundamentally incompatible with the social/political/religious ideology of Western style democratic pluralism?"

I'd love to engage in that debate if you're willing.

Peace
 
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elwill

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1. What does a co-equal place for non-islamics mean?

In basic it would require that there are no political, economic or social rights or obligations that differ between those of Islamic faith and those who are not Islamic.
i agree
actually , islam didn't make differs between muslims and non_muslims

i dodn't think that it's fair to ask muslims not obey thier God as he command them . we didn't need to exercise secular government , we believe that God most knower than us

beside , there are in the world many secular governments , tell me which of them succeeded to decrease the ratio of crime

There are also the historical examples of special taxes and duties levied against persons of non-Islamic faith that Islamics were not required to pay or endure.
i argued about Jezia many times in many threads here , so i will make new topic for it , and plz prepare for me your historical examples

It would also require that the State (which under Islam,as a faith doesn't really exist) enforce my right as a non-Islamic to believe as I chose, dress as I chose, provide my daughters with cars and allow them to drive, hold any profession, etc. etc.
what is the wrong with that , every country have it's laws and it's limitations that you must respect .

Is the hatred engendered by Fascism, solely due to its political philosophy or is part of it inextricably wrapped up in the evil that individuals and nations have done in the name of Fascism?
what is the realation between Fascism and islamic laws ?
But allow me to ask this?
1. Does Islam, as an abstract, provide for the existence and maintenance of a secular government? A pluralistic society wherein the rights of all are equal without regard to gender, race, religion, etc?
yes

2. Does Islam, as an abstract, allow for the lending of monies, the mortgage of property, or any extension of credit?
yes all of that are accepted , islam just prohibit usury , in islam it's a big sin but no punishment for it in sharia

i didn't realize the issue you talking about , but anyway we not have rights to invade or assault any countries , but we have rights to help islamic countries if invaded (retaking) as palastine for example

surely , in islam we have right to retaking palastine land . actually we are in sin for leaving them kills our brothers in palastine

As I said, hate is not generally reasonable, but if you wish to engage in a more reasoned debate, I suspect the terms would be more along the lines of these:
you are wellcome to dapate in any point in islam , i just want for us to exchange our thoughts , and differes of our openions will not change the peace between us , i hope

"Is Islam, as a social/political/religious ideology fundamentally incompatible with the social/political/religious ideology of Western style democratic pluralism?"
i will need more details to cover this point , give me examples

I'd love to engage in that debate if you're willing.
i hope so too

Peace
 
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Disippelen

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Hi Elwill, just a short question regarding this...

Aren't you aware that Palestine, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco, Albania, Bosnia etc. are originally Christian lands?

You say that Muslims should help so-called "Islamic countries" who are invaded, but don't you realize that Muslims themselves wrongfully have taken the countries of Christians (and other non-Muslims).

You think that it's unfair that non-Muslims take Islamic lands, but it isn't it equally unfair that Muslims take non-Islamic lands?


So, to follow your own logic, Christians and others should start waging a massive war against the Islamic world, since the Islamic world is the product of Islamic aggression over the last 1400 years... Right?



Disippelen
 
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français

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Too bad you can't back that up with Scriptures and it is all idle talk. Christians tend to believe a sovereign God who is capable of perfect judgment, and who is merciful and saves by grace, if that is something foreign to your understanding.
Here is a little proverb for you...
Sometimes a way seems right to a man, but the end of it leads to death! - Proverbs 14:12
----
The Bible is clear that the only way to get to Heaven is through Christ, and no Faith, no Heaven. This has been a main belief for 2,000 years.
 
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Secundulus

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surely , in islam we have right to retaking palastine land . actually we are in sin for leaving them kills our brothers in palastine

Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold
Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

William Shakespear - Julius Caesar
 
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elwill

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Hi Elwill, just a short question regarding this...

Aren't you aware that Palestine, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morrocco, Albania, Bosnia etc. are originally Christian lands?
before jesus (pbuh) what was these lands belong to ?
You say that Muslims should help so-called "Islamic countries" who are invaded, but don't you realize that Muslims themselves wrongfully have taken the countries of Christians (and other non-Muslims).
you didn't get it
muslims didn't steal thier land
what happened is that christians whom revert to islam
 
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