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Why the Trinity is a False Doctrine

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civilwarbuff

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Wow, you really are way out there....OK....1 at a time
Where in scripture does it declare this:
Created beings can be made God.
and forget about the human comparison of a son taking over a fathers affairs. Where in scripture is this stated?

In fact, even Moses was made God by God, as we see in this scripture,
And the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1 [ESV]) I cannot believe you are that deficient in the English language or deficient in bible interpretation to so distort this phrase: " I have made you like God to Pharaoh,". It is almost embarassing to explain it to you. "like God" is not the same as are God. The miracles Moses performed before Pharoah do not demonstrate that Moses is God but that Moses is backed by THE God. It is amazing you cannot understand something so simple.
 
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cgaviria

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To be begotten means to be created. You do not even know what you're saying. "The son who is eternally begotten" is nonsensical. The teaching of the trinity was not the original teaching of Jesus, nor even of the apostles, which is why there was even a group named the "Arians" from within the catholic church itself, that opposed this new teaching of the trinity that was promulgated and officialized at the council of Nicaea. And since then, there are known forgeries made onto the scriptures, which includes the Matthew 28:19 verse, which contradicts 7 other scriptures that baptisms are performed in the name of Jesus only, not the trinity, and then the existence of the 1 John 5:7 verse that exists in only a few 10th century manuscripts out of hundreds. The teaching of the trinity is indeed a false doctrine of the catholic church by which most of the world is deceived into believing.
 
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cgaviria

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Its more amazing that you do not understand what sonship truly means and being the image of God means. A son reflects a father, so just as the Father has created, so has the son of God created, reflecting the power of God to create. Yet Jesus does not exceed the Father, but is instead lesser than the Father, but reflects his very nature to create. Even Jesus affirms he is lesser when he says,
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28 [NIV])

Moses, even though lesser than the Father, and even Jesus, was charged by God to carry out the mighty miracles and judgments of God, thus reflecting the Father and being an image of the Father, to carry out this mighty works of God, which is why he is told by God, "I have made you like God". The Father is not displeased in giving his children power to act as sons of God, in fact, that is the very point of sonship, as the Father is not a being that even the highest heavens can contain, as it is said here,
"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! (1 Kings 8:27 [NIV])

So since the Father cannot himself inhabit his own creation, because of how high he is, he therefore chooses to express himself through his children that carry out his will in various ways, such as the power to create through Jesus, and even the power to bring forth mighty judgments, through Moses, yet Moses was only a lesser type of Jesus, because it is Jesus that will truly carry out the full judgments of the Father upon the entire earth, as it is even said,
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, (John 5:22 [NIV])
 
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Vicomte13

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So we have no known manuscripts for the first few centuries, which is indeed very puzzling.

Not really. Books were expensive - the equivalent of a year's wages in modern dollars - and Christianity was an illegal, underground, persecuted religion for three centuries. People did not simply sit around in monasteries copying Scriptures until after Christianity was legalized and made the religion of the Roman Empire, and that happened in the Fourth Century. After that, monastic brothers went about the business of copying down what they could find on proper parchment materials. (Parchment is dried, stretched animal skin: it is strong and durable.)

Before that, in the age when Christianity was hidden, there were no Bibles circulating, only letters and parts. There were no established monasteries of full-time monks copying things. If there had been, the Roman army would have showed up and fed them all to the lions. There were only fragments, and they circulated as letters. It was mostly written on papyrus, which was far cheaper than durable vellum or parchment. Papyrus falls apart and crumbles to dust pretty quickly. If it gets wet, it rots. Parchment is animal skin, so it dries off.

That is why all there is before the fourth century is fragments and pages. No organized religion stable and secure and able to write out books professionally. Christianity spread through oral teaching and some letters. It was not a Bible-based religion.

Once Christianity was legalized, THEN then the monasteries set up and copied down Scripture. And it is not surprising that the first Bibles come out of the city of Alexandria, greatest port city in the world and cite of the greatest scholarly institution in the world, the Alexandrian libraries. Those fourth century complete codicies came from there.

Truth is, every single manuscript of the Bible is different from every single other one. There are 10,000 plus manuscripts, and they are all different. Some of the differences are in spelling, or in word order, or word selection. Some contain passages that are not in others. "Scripture" means "writing", and every scrap of Scripture was handwritten for somebody's use. People copied what they had.

The differences between every ancient Scripture and every other ancient Scripture show us that God was not a Biblical literalist. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

Christians before the Fourth Century didn't have Bibles of their own, and only had a few letters or fragments. The religion spread just as Jesus and the Apostles had spread it: orally.
 
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Vicomte13

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So since the Father cannot himself inhabit his own creation, because of how high he is,

Of course he can, if he wants to. God is God. If you ever find yourself writing "God can't..." you're wrong, by definition.
 
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cgaviria

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There is evidence to prove that there was indeed a compilation of the new testament writings circulating around even before the council of Nicaea. The council of Nicaea simply officialized these writings into the Roman empire, but these writings were indeed already in the possession of early members of the assemblies of God. Even so, all the new old testament were already compiled, so the council of Nicaea, even in these writings, had no hand in bringing them together, except in officializing the writings into the Roman empire, and declaring whatever books they deemed as "canon".
 
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cgaviria

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Of course he can, if he wants to. God is God. If you ever find yourself writing "God can't..." you're wrong, by definition.

Buddy, this is scripture, God cannot inhabit his own creation,
"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! (1 Kings 8:27 [NIV])

Can God sin? Here is another "can't" that he cannot do, therefore your statement is already incorrect.
 
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Vicomte13

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Buddy, this is scripture, God cannot inhabit his own creation,


Can God sin? Here is another "can't" that he cannot do, therefore your statement is already incorrect.

God cannot sin by definition. But God can do many things that would be sins if men did them. Like killing people, for example. We have no right to do that. But God kills everybody. God's law is a law that binds US and binds NATURE, not HIM.

The notion of a Trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit is a pared-down version of what Scripture says. Revelation tells us that God has SEVEN Spirits. There's also Sophia - spirit of wisdom. (Or maybe Sophia is one of the seven.) There is also the Shekinah - the Glory of God. She too, may be one of the seven spirits, or she may be a tenth or eleventh.

Of particular importance to us is Jesus, the only son of God begotten by God in the flesh as well as spirit.
 
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Vicomte13

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The Council of Nicaea did not establish any canon of Scripture at all. Scripture was not the subject of the Council, and it didn't discuss it.
 
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cgaviria

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God does not sin and to suggest that is beyond foolish. He kills because he is creator, not because he is a man, that is told to not kill. There are indeed things God cannot do, he cannot become evil, he cannot become created. You need to understand these things, and your statement earlier is simply not true.
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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Yea it is indeed very difficult to get people out of that doctrine. Very sad.

Why is it sad that it is impossible to deceive? The fact that there is a Father, and there is a Son, and there is a Holy Spirit who are all attributed to being God is entirely Biblical. I have read your discussion and it made me shake my head and blink my eyes and mentally ask, honestly?
 
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cgaviria

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And, as usual, you simply don't answer the questions....like a mockingbird you just repeat yourself.

I am answering your questions, I already showed you valid scriptures to prove without a doubt that God does indeed create vessels that reflect his very nature, and are thus called God as well, yet are lesser than God the Father himself. If you refuse to accept these scriptures, then that is on you.
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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It has to have existed before hand to be part of the discussion.
 
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cgaviria

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Buddy, God can do as he pleases.....whether you agree with him or not...

Of course he can do whatever he pleases, and he does not take pleasure in breaking his own word concerning himself. If the scriptures say that he cannot inhabit his own creation, then rest assured I will believe this. You can, however believe whatever you want, because clearly you love understanding your own thing, and not what scriptures like these teach.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Those who oppose God's truth are blinded. It is a dangerous thing to oppose what God has revealed in Scripture.
and your specific reference is what?
 
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