Why the popularity of the carnivore diet?

[ThatRobGuy]

Over the past few years, I've seen the popularity of this diet soar.

There's been an increased social media presence for it (with entire channels dedicated to the diet)...there have been high-profile people touting it (like Jordan Peterson)...and there people in the "alternative wellness" communities advocating for it.

The question is, what's sparking this draw of this (what I would consider to be) a rather extreme diet?

Is it simply the fact that people are going to be naturally drawn to diet fads that involve less willpower in terms of the dietary exclusions that are required? (IE: a person who's not particularly motivated to exercise or moderate portion sizes or exercise some restraint when it comes to food choices is going to be drawn to something that says 'you can eat all the bacon & eggs an steak you want)

Are they simply being duped by the anecdotes and advice from people in the "alternative wellness" community (who seemingly are inclined to want to oppose MDs and DOs on everything they possibly can, and always claim to know 'the facts the mainstream medical community doesn't want you to know') which gives them a sense of feeling 'woke' when it comes to nutrition?

Or is it simply a lashing out at people they see as ideological rivals? (IE: vegans and climate change activists say that raising meat is bad for the environment, so people who don't accept climate change purposely are embracing it just for the sake of 'smiting one's enemies')?

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[ananda]

The question is, what's sparking this draw of this (what I would consider to be) a rather extreme diet?

I do it because it works for me.

I used to suffer from various issues, many of which I eventually linked through years of trial, error, and observation to wildly fluctuating blood sugar levels, and high sensitivities to phytates, oxalates, etc. I came to realize that these things were related to my diet which, at the time, was composed of high carbs & vegetables/grains. I switched over to a predominanently high-fat, high-protein carnivore diet which solved those issues.

I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians - if their diet works for them, cool. I am not swayed by their ideological extremisms however, since countless animals such as worms, insects, etc. are also destroyed in the process of cultivating & harvesting their vegetables and fruits.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Well the main reason I do carnivore is because it works for me. I find calorie counting to not be as effective for me as carnivore.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians - if their diet works for them, cool. I am not swayed by their ideological extremisms however, since countless animals such as worms, insects, etc. are also destroyed in the process of cultivating & harvesting their vegetables and fruits.

I would agree that the animal death/suffering appeal from vegans is less compelling (as you mention, a lot of animals die in the crop harvest process)...however, I do think they make a compelling argument with regards to the environmental impact of factory farming of animals for meat, in particular, beef.

That's where the ideological rivalry aspect I mentioned sort of comes into play. The carnivore diet "gurus" not only recommend only meat, but recommend, in particular, a lot of the specific type of meat (beef) that environmental advocates say is the worst instead of, say, fish or chicken.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Well the main reason I do carnivore is because it works for me. I find calorie counting to not be as effective for me as carnivore.

Couldn't the same benefits of both Ketosis as well as not having to count calories also be obtained with a diet of both meat and non-starchy vegetables as well?

I understand that with a low carb diet, lower caloric intake is an incidental outcome of that so one doesn't have to watch the calorie count like they would on other diets.

My question would be, what's the perceived benefit of eating 10oz of steak, vs....say, 8oz of steak and a cup of broccoli?

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

Couldn't the same benefits of both Ketosis as well as not having to count calories also be obtained with a diet of both meat and non-starchy vegetables as well?

I understand that with a low carb diet, lower caloric intake is an incidental outcome of that so one doesn't have to watch the calorie count like they would on other diets.

My question would be, what's the perceived benefit of eating 10oz of steak, vs....say, 8oz of steak and a cup of broccoli?

I can't speak for other people but I do know carnivore was more effective at weight loss for me. I am 6'0 tall and i couldnt get lower than 212 on keto. On carnivore i got as low as 191 and easily could have loss more. So i think carnivore is more effective for weight loss at least in my experience. Also some people have autoimmune conditions that do better on carnivore than low carb.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think it's most likely this. People can be incredibly petty.

It's interesting because the Bible does a science experiment in Daniel 1 where two groups of people eat different things: royal food (meats, fats, and wine) and vegetables. Turns out those who ate the veggies came out healthier after ten days.

I don't think it's any coincidence that the environmental movement (which is largely on the left) recommends lowering meat consumption, and that the carnivore diet has wildly grown in popularity among the right.

I don't think it's too unlike when the left calls for gun control, the right runs to the gun store for a shopping spree as a reaction, or the way many of them hopped on twitter and instagram to pose with pictures of plastic straws.

 

[ananda]

...however, I do think they make a compelling argument with regards to the environmental impact of factory farming of animals for meat, in particular, beef.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

I also see a huge environmental impact involved in vegetarian farming - the transport of vegetables & fruits across the world (necessary to provide them with a wide variety of choices, throughout the year, and to offer a more balanced intake of nutrients), and the vast amounts of vegetables and fruits a single individual must ingest in order to maintain an adequate amount of daily calories (not even counting other nutritional factors), not to mention the sourcing of other supplements that they must take (e.g. B12, etc.)

Without this worldwide infrastructure, I greatly question how many vegans or vegetarians could be supported through local farming, especially in consideration of growing seasons.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I can't speak for other people but I do know carnivore was more effective at weight loss for me. I am 6'0 tall and i couldnt get lower than 212 on keto. On carnivore i got as low as 191 and easily could have loss more. So i think carnivore is more effective for weight loss at least in my experience. Also some people have autoimmune conditions that do better on carnivore than low carb.

I have heard the claim that it's effective in addressing some autoimmune conditions, and while the research comes out mixed on that (with peer reviewed studies kind of going both ways), my concern with using that approach would be questioning whether or not a diet that could potentially drastically (and negatively impact your LDL cholesterol as well as cholesterol ratio) is the right way to go about addressing autoimmune conditions.

There are several examples of things that may have a positive effect on us, but be worse for us overall in the long run.

For instance, the most well known example of that I can think of would be how there's a causal association between cigarette smoking and both a reduced risk of Parkinson's, as well as the slowing of progression of Parkinson's.

However, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that smoking is a good thing because of that particular medical outcome.

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

I have heard the claim that it's effective in addressing some autoimmune conditions, and while the research comes out mixed on that (with peer reviewed studies kind of going both ways), my concern with using that approach would be questioning whether or not a diet that could potentially drastically (and negatively impact your LDL cholesterol as well as cholesterol ratio) is the right way to go about addressing autoimmune conditions.

Well compared to obesity i think i'll take my chances on carnivore. I have never seen evidence that someone did carnivore and had cholesterol problems.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Perhaps, perhaps not.

I also see a huge environmental impact involved in vegetarian farming - the transport of vegetables & fruits across the world (necessary to provide them with a wide variety of choices, throughout the year, and to offer a more balanced intake of nutrients), and the vast amounts of vegetables and fruits a single individual must ingest in order to maintain an adequate amount of daily calories (not even counting other nutritional factors), not to mention the sourcing of other supplements that they must take (e.g. B12, etc.)

Without this worldwide infrastructure, I greatly question how many vegans or vegetarians could be supported through local farming, especially in consideration of growing seasons.

A couple things that I think are fair to point out...

1) While it's absolutely true that there is an environmental impact associated with vegetable/fruit farming. (As you mentioned, you need to use transportation in order to ship things in) I think the data is pretty clear that one is significantly worse than the other in terms of overall greenhouse gas emissions, water & land usage. Especially when you factor in that a lot of the crop production that takes place is actually done for the sole purpose of using it at a feedlot for cows. Beef & Lamb in particular are bad for greenhouse gas emissions. Chicken and Pork don't seem to have that same huge impact.

2) As far as the caloric intake, for the overwhelming majority of people, it's not too hard to get an adequate amount of calories on a plant based (or mostly plant based) diet. I've tried many of the diets on myself just as self-experimentation, and while meat often does have higher caloric density...I still didn't really have any issues getting > 2000 cals per day on plants. Obviously just eating leafy greans all day won't get you there, but incorporating nuts, seeds, and beans can.

3) The B12 argument is one that a lot of people have a few misconceptions of. While it's true that many strict vegetarians do need to supplement. Many meat eaters are getting theirs as a result of supplementation as well, they just don't realize it. Feedlot beef is actually given B12 supplements to boost the content of their muscle meat. In nature, a ruminant animal would eat grass, and as a byproduct of that, would also ingest some of the soil (a few bugs, etc...) and there's a process in their digestive tract that synthesizes the bacteria into B12.

Even the "Grass fed beef", is still getting it indirectly through supplementation as the land they graze on is often depleted, so the land is artificially enhanced with some B12 rich cobalt in order to make that happen.

If feed lot beef weren't given B12 supplements, many meat eaters would be just as deficient in that as vegans.

Really, the only way people could not be deficient without some form of supplementation is if they were sourcing their meat exclusively from wild game and drinking water directly from streams & rivers instead of from a bottle or tap.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Well compared to obesity i think i'll take my chances on carnivore. I have never seen evidence that someone did carnivore and had cholesterol problems.

Actually, if you're familiar with carnivore activist Frank Tufano...

He's a young guy (in his 20's), a healthy body weight (looks like he's maybe 170?), and recently published his blood work online, and had a score of over 300...and a ratio of over 6:1 - which should be uncommon for such a young guy who's thin.

 

[ananda]

A couple things that I think are fair to point out...

1) While it's absolutely true that there is an environmental impact associated with vegetable/fruit farming. (As you mentioned, you need to use transportation in order to ship things in) I think the data is pretty clear that one is significantly worse than the other in terms of overall greenhouse gas emissions, water & land usage. Especially when you factor in that a lot of the crop production that takes place is actually done for the sole purpose of using it at a feedlot for cows. Beef & Lamb in particular are bad for greenhouse gas emissions. Chicken and Pork don't seem to have that same huge impact.

2) As far as the caloric intake, for the overwhelming majority of people, it's not too hard to get an adequate amount of calories on a plant based (or mostly plant based) diet. I've tried many of the diets on myself just as self-experimentation, and while meat often does have higher caloric density...I still didn't really have any issues getting > 2000 cals per day on plants. Obviously just eating leafy greans all day won't get you there, but incorporating nuts, seeds, and beans can.

3) The B12 argument is one that a lot of people have a few misconceptions of. While it's true that many strict vegetarians do need to supplement. Many meat eaters are getting theirs as a result of supplementation as well, they just don't realize it. Feedlot beef is actually given B12 supplements to boost the content of their muscle meat. In nature, a ruminant animal would eat grass, and as a byproduct of that, would also ingest some of the soil (a few bugs, etc...) and there's a process in their digestive tract that synthesizes the bacteria into B12.

Even the "Grass fed beef", is still getting it indirectly through supplementation as the land they graze on is often depleted, so the land is artificially enhanced with some B12 rich cobalt in order to make that happen.

If feed lot beef weren't given B12 supplements, many meat eaters would be just as deficient in that as vegans.

Really, the only way people could not be deficient without some form of supplementation is if they were sourcing their meat exclusively from wild game and drinking water directly from streams & rivers instead of from a bottle or tap.

Yes, I recognize that there are unfortunately problems inherent with both systems.

The prominent vegan ideology that theirs is the perfect, moral, and ethical system is extreme and dishonest, IMO. (I don't see this sentiment quite as pervasive in the carnivore community)

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[dqhall]

Over the past few years, I've seen the popularity of this diet soar.

There's been an increased social media presence for it (with entire channels dedicated to the diet)...there have been high-profile people touting it (like Jordan Peterson)...and there people in the "alternative wellness" communities advocating for it.

The question is, what's sparking this draw of this (what I would consider to be) a rather extreme diet?

Is it simply the fact that people are going to be naturally drawn to diet fads that involve less willpower in terms of the dietary exclusions that are required? (IE: a person who's not particularly motivated to exercise or moderate portion sizes or exercise some restraint when it comes to food choices is going to be drawn to something that says 'you can eat all the bacon & eggs an steak you want)

Are they simply being duped by the anecdotes and advice from people in the "alternative wellness" community (who seemingly are inclined to want to oppose MDs and DOs on everything they possibly can, and always claim to know 'the facts the mainstream medical community doesn't want you to know') which gives them a sense of feeling 'woke' when it comes to nutrition?

Or is it simply a lashing out at people they see as ideological rivals? (IE: vegans and climate change activists say that raising meat is bad for the environment, so people who don't accept climate change purposely are embracing it just for the sake of 'smiting one's enemies')?

The World Health Organization described processed meat as a Group 1 carcinogen and red meat as a Group 2 carcinogen. Chicken is the leading source of cholesterol in the American diet. Diets high in saturated fat and cholesterol increased incidence of arteriosclerosis and Coronary Artery Disease. The Atkins Diet is a low carb, increased meat diet. A study showed people on the Atkins Diet are 30% more likely to die.

A vegetarian eating donuts, French fries and potato chips may not have as much of a chance for good health as a vegetarian with more sophisticated dietary knowledge.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I support gun control. The fact that the US is suffering two or three mass shootings every week while Canada hasn't had a Columbine-scaled mass shooting since 1989 already speaks volumes to me.

Also, doesn't the US Constitution say that the second amendment grants those gun right to a well regulated militia?

You'll have people who interpret it both ways and argue over the comma placement, but ultimately, the Supreme Court ruled on it back in 08 and ruled that it's an individual right, but not an unlimited one. (Sort of an answer that neither side wanted to hear lol)

...but I was more or less just using that as an example.

But, with regards to the topic at hand, I was using the gun & straw examples just to highlight how the far right in the US tends to like to embrace things that the left claims to not like as a reaction and a way to agitate.

"We shouldn't use plastic straws" -> "Oh yeah, look at this pic of me with 5 plastic straws in my drink just to agitate you!"

"We need more gun control" -> "I'm going to run out and by 2 new ones tomorrow just to show you who's boss!"

"We need to drive more fuel efficient vehicles" -> "Check out this new 'My Truck Runs on Liberal Tears' bumper sticker I just put on the back of my Chevy Suburban!"

...and I think that's a similar thing with why the carnivore diet has found sudden popularity among the far right.

"We need to cut back on meat consumption, especially red meat" -> "Is that so?!?!...well I'm going to adopt this diet that's all meat, and not only that, it's going to be primarily red meat because you said that kind was the worst! Take that leftist vegans!!!"

 

[Hiep]

Over the past few years, I've seen the popularity of this diet soar.

There's been an increased social media presence for it (with entire channels dedicated to the diet)...there have been high-profile people touting it (like Jordan Peterson)...and there people in the "alternative wellness" communities advocating for it.

The question is, what's sparking this draw of this (what I would consider to be) a rather extreme diet?

Is it simply the fact that people are going to be naturally drawn to diet fads that involve less willpower in terms of the dietary exclusions that are required? (IE: a person who's not particularly motivated to exercise or moderate portion sizes or exercise some restraint when it comes to food choices is going to be drawn to something that says 'you can eat all the bacon & eggs an steak you want)

Are they simply being duped by the anecdotes and advice from people in the "alternative wellness" community (who seemingly are inclined to want to oppose MDs and DOs on everything they possibly can, and always claim to know 'the facts the mainstream medical community doesn't want you to know') which gives them a sense of feeling 'woke' when it comes to nutrition?

Or is it simply a lashing out at people they see as ideological rivals? (IE: vegans and climate change activists say that raising meat is bad for the environment, so people who don't accept climate change purposely are embracing it just for the sake of 'smiting one's enemies')?

Carnivore diet is popular because Jordan Peterson was allergic to everything except meat. He told his story on the Joe Rogan podcast and the diet became very popular.

 

[bhsmte]

Diets will continue to come and go, as people search for that magical solution.

Problem is, there is no magical solution.

 

[timewerx]

Meat is cheaper and in particular, pork, is one of main reasons I'm going meat these days. I

All the veggie cult have driven prices of vegetables sky high. The carnivore cult also drove prices of beef high. That only leaves me with pork as economically sustainable food source.

If I think of it, these wildly swinging food trends may have less to do with health but more to do with profiteering. It's all about money. Perhaps, to stimulate the economy somehow but at the cost of low-wage workers like me.