Why the Nicene Creed should be REJECTED as a litmus test for Christianity.

[mesue]

The Nicene Creed suffices just fine, in that it is the basis of membership in the club.

There is no guarantee that all "Christians" are saved:

Matthew 25:44-4544 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

These people were "Christians", and called Christ Lord. Apparently, their words were empty.

It suffices fine for you, and that's okay, for you. But please don't purport to speak for Christianity, or Baptist's, as a whole.
I thought you were an Agnostic Christian? When did you become Baptist?

 

[Diakoneo]

When it suits him - to post in here. I suppose.

Regardless I appreciate seeb's input - even though I must disregard it.

Who care's about Biblical Christianity?

Um, I do.

 

[Bulldog]

It suffices fine for you, and that's okay, for you. But please don't purport to speak for Christianity, or Baptist's, as a whole.
I thought you were an Agnostic Christian? When did you become Baptist?

Seebs is both an agnostic Christian and a Quaker (or at least attending a Quaker fellowhip), I believe.

 

[mesue]

When it suits him - to post in here. I suppose.

Regardless I appreciate seeb's input - even though I must disregard it.

Who care's about Biblical Christianity?

Um, I do.

I, too, appreciate seebs comments. It gets me talking to God

 

[Bulldog]

Dikaneo, what do you propose as an alternative?

 

[Crazy Liz]

It suffices fine for you, and that's okay, for you. But please don't purport to speak for Christianity, or Baptist's, as a whole.
I thought you were an Agnostic Christian? When did you become Baptist?

This forum is not just for Baptists. It is for Anabaptists and Quakers, too. Please don't forget us.

 

[seebs]

It suffices fine for you, and that's okay, for you. But please don't purport to speak for Christianity, or Baptist's, as a whole.

I don't speak for Baptists. I just speak for me.

But my point is... We don't have any better tests available for who counts as "Christian". For roughly 1500 years, "Christian" has meant "adhering to the contents of the Creed".

If it were up to me, the rule would be "self-identifies as Christian", but I am okay with the Creed. I do not, however, think I would be okay with people imposing more specific requirements, because I do not think any of us have the qualifications or authority to do so.

Do we want the Catholics saying you're only allowed to post in CO forums if your church has a priest with a valid line of apostolic succession back to the early Church? Do we want the Orthodox to be able to rule out erroneous Western heresies like original sin? Do we have the authority to tell people which positions they must hold on questions such as transubstantiation, sola scriptura, predestination?

I am quite happy with a rule that is clear and well-understood which most churches have been using for a very long time.

I thought you were an Agnostic Christian? When did you become Baptist?

This is the Baptist/Anabaptist forum, including Mennonites and Quakers. My regular church is called "Twin Cities Friends Meeting". According to Erwin, Quakers and Mennonites belong in this forum.

This has been a question for some time; back when the Congregation forums were "Protestant" and "Catholic", it was very hard to explain where the people who aren't really either should go.

 

[Richard]

The fact of the matter is ..... this is a private site. Erwin can do anything he wishes to do in regards to "what is a Christian" It's pointless to talk about such a matter, because in the end we just get alot of people that want to revolt and speak out of what Erwin says and does.

Erwin has stated his opinion on this matter many times. A Christian must adhere to the Nicene Creed to be considered one. I don't see the point in this topic.

 

[Crazy Liz]

The fact of the matter is ..... this is a private site. Erwin can do anything he wishes to do in regards to "what is a Christian" It's pointless to talk about such a matter, because in the end we just get alot of people that want to revolt and speak out of what Erwin says and does.

OK, I'll post virtually the same response to virtually the same comment for the second time today.

I can't tell you how many times I've read this statement, but for the life of me, I can't figure how it contributes to the discussions where I've seen it posted. Before you get too upset, let me explain.

First, Erwin has chosen to call CF a "community" and a "ministry." These terms imply something different from a proprietorship in which there is an owner with absolute rule. So an argument based on viewing CF as a proprietorship at least appears to imply some lack of integrity on Erwin's part when he chose to call it a "community" and a "ministry."

Even if CF is a proprietorship, there is nothing wrong with ASKING Erwin to do something, or with DISCUSSING the pros and cons of making such a request. By petitioning Erwin for a change, the members actually acknowledge that Erwin has the power to grant or deny the petition. (Those with a legal background may appreciate the difference in nuance between rights and powers. The rest can just be aware that I used the word "power" intentionally. Those who do - since I understand Erwin is a lawyer - should not feel insulted. Because of the ambiguity of the community/ministry/proprietorship categories, the question of rights is intentionally left aside.)

Erwin has stated his opinion on this matter many times. A Christian must adhere to the Nicene Creed to be considered one. I don't see the point in this topic.

Erwin has been known to respond to requests from members. I don't see the point of trying to squelch discussion by referring to Erwin's powers, which we all acknowledge.

 

[Richard]

It's the fact that they same disagreement is being brought up time after time after time after time after time.............


That is why I have stated the famous quote "It's Erwin site, he does and is doing as he chooses"

 

[daveleau]

I see a lot of tearing down, but not much rebuilding in this thread. The Nicene Creed acts as a viable account of the core ideas of Christianity. The inherent problems are that Mormons, JWs and others can claim the Nicene Creed by warping the Scriptures to meet their beliefs. But, this can happen with any contra-Scriptural theology. And any standard can be bent to meet the beliefs of others. What do you guys think will be a sufficient easily identifiable way to make entrance into the CO forums work? Remember that Mormons, JWs and other contra-Scriptural belief systems consider themselves to be Christians.

 

[Diakoneo]

The inherent problems are that Mormons, JWs and Open Theists can claim the Nicene Creed by warping the Scriptures to meet their beliefs. But, this can happen with any cult theology. And any standard can be bent to meet the beliefs of others. What do you guys think will be a sufficient easily identifiable way to make entrance into the CO forums work? Remember that Mormons, JWs, Universalists and other cults consider themselves to be Christians.

This is exactly the point. If I were a Mormon let's say - I would come in here and post all I want and I could use the rule as my defense. That's the point exactly!

 

[Diakoneo]

It's the fact that they same disagreement is being brought up time after time after time after time after time.............


That is why I have stated the famous quote "It's Erwin site, he does and is doing as he chooses"

I've personally never seen it brought up before... but that's just me. I'm sure it has been. However, my ignorance of the contents of the past 1,000,000 posts or so shouldn't, IMO, cancel out the intention...

 

[Richard]

I see a lot of tearing down, but not much rebuilding in this thread. The Nicene Creed acts as a viable account of the core ideas of Christianity. The inherent problems are that Mormons, JWs and Open Theists can claim the Nicene Creed by warping the Scriptures to meet their beliefs. But, this can happen with any cult theology. And any standard can be bent to meet the beliefs of others. What do you guys think will be a sufficient easily identifiable way to make entrance into the CO forums work? Remember that Mormons, JWs, Universalists and other cults consider themselves to be Christians.

I don't ever recall a mormon friend of mine considering themselves Christians...Same with Latter Day Saints.

 

[arunma]

FYI, LDS are the largest denomination of Mormons.

 

[Bulldog]

The inherent problems are that Mormons, JWs and Open Theists can claim the Nicene Creed by warping the Scriptures to meet their beliefs.

They can't though, according to this site's intepretation of the creed. I haven't been here for that long, but from what I know, the creed was implemented to keep groups like Mormons, and JW's from posting in the Christian-only forums. (open theists can still post in the christian-only forums, they just can't promote open theism).

 

[Joykins]

All the Mormons I know have insisted that they are Christians too.

 

[Richard]

They can't though, according to this site's intepretation of the creed. I haven't been here for that long, but from what I know, the creed was implemented to keep groups like Mormons, and JW's from posting in the Christian-only forums. (open theists can still post in the christian-only forums, they just can't promote open theism).

I don't think it was implemented just because of that, but then again, I could of misread your post

 

[Bulldog]

I don't think it was implemented just because of that, but then again, I could of misread your post

This is what I understand happened, but then again, I wasn't there.

 

[JPPT1974]

I see a lot of tearing down, but not much rebuilding in this thread. The Nicene Creed acts as a viable account of the core ideas of Christianity. The inherent problems are that Mormons, JWs and Open Theists can claim the Nicene Creed by warping the Scriptures to meet their beliefs. But, this can happen with any cult theology. And any standard can be bent to meet the beliefs of others. What do you guys think will be a sufficient easily identifiable way to make entrance into the CO forums work? Remember that Mormons, JWs, Universalists and other cults consider themselves to be Christians.

Plus they have Christian principles. But just because they have "Christian" principals doesn't mean that they really believe in Jesus. As they believe in Jesus and another prophet you know. When you are only suppose to believe in Jesus and nobody else.