WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

SabbathBlessings · May 2, 2023

myst33 said:
I know what is in your posts.

You do not care about the 9, because Christians keep them anyway, so its not the point why you are trying to put us under them.

Yes, burning witches, stoning homosexuals and adulterers, returning wives who are not virgins etc - all in the Law. But you do not keep it, I hope.

Well, I do care about the other 9 they are all equal, you break one, you break them all. The one that is always in contention is the one God said Remember, yet man says to forget. I choose to believe God.

God will be our righteous Judge and I trust His judgement, our time on this earth is short and God wants His people to live a certain way because the commandments He gives to His children are for their own good.

SabbathBlessings · May 2, 2023

myst33 said:
We have already been through this. Your individual composing of verses together as you like them is not God's Word.

So the God of Creation is not the same God of Judgement?

Revelation 14: 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Leaf473 · May 2, 2023

God is the same throughout the Bible, but putting together verses like pieces of a puzzle can lead to startling results.

There's a form of bibliomancy where you pray to ask God to show you what he wants you to do, and then flip open your Bible randomly and put your finger down.

Years ago our youth pastor demonstrated what can happen:

The first verse he "found" was
"Judas hung himself".

He said, "Uh oh, better try again."

The second verse was,
"You of faith go and do likewise."

SabbathBlessings · May 2, 2023

Leaf473 said:
God is the same throughout the Bible, but putting together verses like pieces of a puzzle can lead to startling results.

There's a form of bibliomancy where you pray to ask God to show you what he wants you to do, and then flip open your Bible randomly and put your finger down.

Years ago our youth pastor demonstrated what can happen:

The first verse he "found" was
"Judas hung himself".

He said, "Uh oh, better try again."

The second verse was,
"You of faith go and do likewise."

Randomly opening the bible to random texts is completely different than allowing the bible to interpret itself.

trophy33 · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Well, I do care about the other 9 they are all equal, you break one, you break them all. The one that is always in contention is the one God said Remember, yet man says to forget. I choose to believe God.

God will be our righteous Judge and I trust His judgement, our time on this earth is short and God wants His people to live a certain way because the commandments He gives to His children are for their own good.

Its only the 4th one that differs between the SDA and the rest of Christianity, regarding the 10 commandment. Its your real motivation, not the other 9.

Let us not lose our "short time on this earth" pretending its not so.

trophy33 · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
So the God of Creation is not the same God of Judgement?

Revelation 14: 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

You do not make any sense.

Why are you putting two verses together if they do not belong together? Having similar words does not mean its the same context.

expos4ever · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
One affects the other.

No, this is a diversion and you must know it. Here is my question, yet again. It is clear, precise and meaningful. And this question, as posed has nothing to do with Gentiles, Jews, or the Law of Moses! So, please, no more excuses!

It is a question that forces you and others to face an uncomfortable truth - the structure of verses 28 and 29, as illustrated by this abstracted question, a question that does not give you an "out" to talk about Jews, Gentiles, or the Law, forces a certain conclusion that you will not accept. Here is the question yet again:

Consider this very abstract, general statement:

We maintain that a person's justification has nothing to do with engaging in behaviour X; or is justification only available for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

Is it not an undeniable fact of logic that this block of text, as unit, logically forces us to conclude that only group A is able to engage in behaviour X?

If group B were, in fact, capable of engaging in behaviour X, why would I need to add the following qualification?:

or is justification only available for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

Why are you not answering this question?

SabbathBlessings · May 2, 2023

myst33 said:
Its only the 4th one that differs between the SDA and the rest of Christianity, regarding the 10 commandment. Its your real motivation, not the 9.

Let us not lost our "short time on this earth" pretending its not so.

Are you claiming someone from the SDA wrote the Sabbath commandment, when God said He did? Exodus 20:8-11 Exodus 32:16 Exodus 31:18 and then said not to edit His commandments Deut 4:2 and warned us someone would edit God's Sabbath Dan 7:25 but not God and Jesus said we are only to follow God and not man Matthew 15:3-9 and that the whole world would be deceived. Revelation 12:9 and helping people get back to God's Truth is something we are commissioned by Jesus Matthew 5:19 Psalms 119:151

There's also a time where God tells us to move on and I am probably at that point because it does not seem you want to have a discussion but just make one accusation after another that is not backed up with anything but your words. I will leave the conversation and I wish you well seeking His Truth.

SabbathBlessings · May 2, 2023

expos4ever said:
No, this is a diversion and you must know it. Here is my question, yet again. It is clear, precise and meaningful. And this question, as posed has nothing to do with Gentiles, Jews, or the Law of Moses! So, please, no more excuses!

It is a question that forces you and others to face an uncomfortable truth - the structure of verses 28 and 29, as illustrated by this abstracted question, a question that does not give you an "out" to talk about Jews, Gentiles, or the Law, forces a certain conclusion that you will not accept. Here is the question yet again:

Consider this very abstract, general statement:

We maintain that a person's justification has nothing to do with engaging in behaviour X; or is justification only available for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

Is it not an undeniable fact of logic that this block of text, as unit, logically forces us to conclude that only group A is able to engage in behaviour X?

If group B were, in fact, capable of engaging in behaviour X, why would I need to add the following qualification?:

or is justification only available for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

Ok, so going to avoid the question. Sometimes working backwards is easier because if the end results is being saved and to be with God and scripture shows us what that looks like, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15 the rest of His Word needs to reconcile.

trophy33 · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Randomly opening the bible to random texts is completely different than allowing the bible to interpret itself.

The context of a verse interprets the verse. Not your "allowing" (placing verses about Sabbath next to everything).

expos4ever · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
You keep saying the Gentiles do not have the law but scripture gives an example of a saved person and they are with law - keeping God's commandments- so either only Jews are saved (those with law according to you) or you have a misunderstanding of Paul's writings, which we have warning of that many people do. 2 Peter 3:16

Where is this example? Please provide a specific reference.

I am pretty sure how this will turn out - you will be assuming that reference to the commandments of God are necessarily references to the Law of Moses.

That, of course, would be circular reasoning.

But if you can find a text where it is clear that a Gentile is following the Law of Moses, and that this is endorsed by the writer, please let us know.

trophy33 · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Are you claiming someone from the SDA wrote the Sabbath commandment, when God said He did?

No, I am claiming that only the commandment about keeping the Sabbath is what you are arguing about. The rest 9 commandments are adopted by Christianity in some way.

And you ignore the other commandments of the Law you do not like, for example to burn witches. So its just about Sabbath - you either do not like the rest and do not want to keep it, or the moral ones are already adopted in Christianity (so not really your point).

expos4ever · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Ok, so going to avoid the question. Sometimes working backwards is easier because if the end results is being saved and with God and scripture shows us what that looks like, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15 the rest of His Word needs to reconcile.

Word salad.

Again:

Consider this very abstract, general statement:

We maintain that a person's justification has nothing to do with engaging in behaviour X; or is justification only available for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

Is it not an undeniable fact of logic that this block of text, as unit, logically forces us to conclude that only group A is able to engage in behaviour X?

If group B were, in fact, capable of engaging in behaviour X, why would I need to add the following qualification?:

or is justification only available for group A? Is not justification also available to group B as well? Yes, justification is available to both groups A and B.

BobRyan · May 2, 2023

BobRyan said:
===================

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

BY DWIGHT L. MOODY

"THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

"I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)

"It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

HOW TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH

"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy. It is the day when the body may be refreshed and strengthened after six days of labor, and the soul drawn into closer fellowship with its Maker.

"True observance of the Sabbath may be considered under two general heads:

cessation from ordinary secular work, and

religious exercises.

how innexplicable then - this post

myst33 said:
Its only the 4th one that differs between the SDA and the rest of Christianity

Are you arguing for "The nine commandments" even though James 2 says - to break one is to break them all? Is that your argument - no matter what the Bible says?

Are you arguing for editing one of the Ten Commandments??

Are you claiming that all the other members here posting in favor of the Bible Sabbath "don't exist" because they are not SDA and yet they affirm the Bible Sabbath??

Leaf473 · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Randomly opening the bible to random texts is completely different than allowing the bible to interpret itself.

Definitely! But - and feel free not to respond to this, because it's starting to talk about the law -
connecting
"the Saints keep the Commandments of God"

with

"The Ten Commandments"

sounds more like forcing an interpretation on the Bible allowing it to interpret itself. For one thing, in Hebrew, the Ten Commandments are the 10 words.

BobRyan · May 2, 2023

myst33 said:
And you ignore the other commandments of the Law you do not like, for example to burn witches.

Read the Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19

SabbathBlessings · May 2, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Definitely! But - and feel free not to respond to this, because it's starting to talk about the law -
connecting
"the Saints keep the Commandments of God"

with

"The Ten Commandments"

sounds more like forcing an interpretation on the Bible allowing it to interpret itself. For one thing, in Hebrew, the Ten Commandments are the 10 words.

You would have to prove the Sabbath is not one of God's commandments to make this argument work, when God said it is. Exodus 20:6

I am not going further down this rabbit hole with you as we have done this too many times.

BobRyan · May 2, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Definitely! But - and feel free not to respond to this, because it's starting to talk about the law -
connecting
"the Saints keep the Commandments of God"

with

"The Ten Commandments"

"The first commandment with a promise - is Honor your Father and mother" Eph 6:2 - which is only true within the TEN and we both know it.

Matt 19 Jesus said "KEEP the Commandments" and he only quotes from the Law of Moses in the TEN Commandments plus Lev 19:18 and we both know it.

Rom 13 Paul only quotes from the TEN Commandments and Lev 19:18 and we both know it.

Jer 31:31-34 "The LAW of God written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant - includes the TEN Commandments as Jeremiah and his readers knew because in Deut 5:22 "HE spoke the TEN Words and ADDED NO MORE" and we both know it.

Leaf473 said:
sounds more like forcing an interpretation on the Bible

sounds more like you are holding the Bible at such a distance that no matter how many times these inconvenient Bible details are mentioned to you - they get ignored and then you post as if you are not reading the content of the discussion... again.

Leaf473 · May 2, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Randomly opening the bible to random texts is completely different than allowing the bible to interpret itself.

Leaf473 said:
Definitely! But - and feel free not to respond to this, because it's starting to talk about the law -
connecting
"the Saints keep the Commandments of God"

with

"The Ten Commandments"

sounds more like forcing an interpretation on the Bible allowing it to interpret itself. For one thing, in Hebrew, the Ten Commandments are the 10 words.

You know, SB,
(And I see you've written a response to me that I haven't read yet )
Did you say that you grew up keeping a seventh day Sabbath? If so, you may have been around this thinking for so long that you don't realize how forced it sounds to those who are just exploring those teachings.

Just something to consider ❤️
I love you, my sister.

trophy33 · May 2, 2023

BobRyan said:
Read the Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19

I did. What does it have to do with my post?

Read The Second Helvetic Confession.

WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

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