Why the day-year is not used in Daniel 9 - Shavuim vs Shavuot

[Adventist Heretic]

To understand this chapter we must begin with an explanation of the term “weeks.”

Daniel chapter 9 uses the Hebrew word (שבעים ~ Shavuim) to represents a period of time multiplied by seven. For various reasons this word is translated as “weeks” and means a multiple of seven years rather than a multiple of seven days.

• a) We see a similar use in the verse, “You shall count~ שבע שבתת השנים) seven Shabbaths of years), seven years seven times… forty-nine years.” Leviticus 25:8
• b) A Shabbath is a period of seven days and shares the same Hebrew root for the word
• c) Normally the plural of week would be (שבעות ~ Shavuot) in Daniel it uses the masculine “ים” ending for ( שבעים~ Shavuim) similar to (years ~ שנים) This indicates that (שבעים~ Shavuim) is referring to a multiple of seven years
• d) Both Jews and Christians agree that this is referring to a multiple of years.

Daniel 9 - A True Biblical Interpretation

An explanation of Daniel 9 (Daniel Chapter 9). The book of Daniel is filled with Messianic illusions and calculations that Daniel pondering.

jewsforjudaism.org

 

[Adventist Heretic]

In addition, the immediate context is of understanding Jeremiah in which we see that the land was going to have 70 years of rest one year for every year that it did not receive its rest. The land receives rest every 7 years. so the context is of counting years.

"The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah." 2 Chronicles 36:21


Leviticus 26:34
Then the land shall enjoy its Sabbaths all the days it lies desolate, while you are in the land of your enemies. At that time the land will rest and enjoy its Sabbaths.


Leviticus 25:4
But in the seventh year there shall be a Sabbath of complete rest for the land--a Sabbath to the LORD. You are not to sow your field or prune your vineyard.

Jeremiah 25:11
And this whole land will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon for seventy years.

Jeremiah 29:10
For this is what the LORD says: "When Babylon's seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place.

Leviticus 26:34,35,43
Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths…

Leviticus 25:4-6
But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard…

 

[BobRyan]

Dan 9 clearly establishes the day-year model as all the Protestant Reformers affirm in their embrace of the Historicist model of prophetic interpretation.

So then 70 - 7s is the 490 days of Dan 9.

With that understanding of apocalyptic timeline interpretation - it all works out perfectly for Dan 7, 8, 9 using the consistent day-for-year model that has been understood in the Historicist model that dominated the Protestant world for so many centuries. The nice thing is everyone pretty much agrees that Dan 9 is using day-for-year.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Dan 9 clearly establishes the day-year model as all the Protestant Reformers affirm in their embrace of the Historicist model of prophetic interpretation.

Show me where the day-year is mentioned in the text, there is NO reference to it.

So then 70 - 7s is the 490 days of Dan 9.

With that understanding of apocalyptic timeline interpretation - it all works out perfectly for Dan 7, 8, 9 using the consistent day-for-year model that has been understood in the Historicist model that dominated the Protestant world for so many centuries. The nice thing is everyone pretty much agrees that Dan 9 is using day-for-year.

The day-year is not universally accepted. There is no evidence for that. It is a rule for Numbers and Ezekiel, but it is not guaranteed in all prophecies. Your method violates "The Rules of interpretation": internal textual time signatures take precedence over importing external time signatures. SDA's say that because they need that to get to Oct 22, 1844, without it that date is in jeopardy and your whole structure must be reexamined.

1. Daniel 8: does not use day year. day year is 1 for 1 swap or a = b this is like addition. Daniel 8 uses multiplication or algebra. If a = day and b= year then x is the result.
a. Evenings & Mornings - day
b. Appointments, Mo'dem = festivals a yearly cycle
Notice we are counting a Day in the yearly cycle. Most likely the Day of Atonement. so 2300 days of Atonement.

That is what the text says

2. Daniel 9:
a. Heptads - the grouping of 7. 7 days, 7 years. The woman's decathlon in the Olympics is the heptathlon = the 7 games.
b. Sabbath years (Shavuim).
Notice we are counting Sabbath years group by 7.

That is what the text says.

You are following William Miller's Mistake and making it law it did work then and it does not work now.

Bob, could you answer the following questions?

1. Where in the scripture is a universal law that says to use the day-year in ALL-time prophecy? Number and Ezekiel do not count they are only talking about Numbers and Ezekiel.

2. Where is the evidence that Historicists universally accept the day-year principle in all-time prophecies?

3. What evidence do you cite, other than William Miller, that the 2300 evenings & mornings are anything other than a day?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

bump

 

[Adventist Heretic]

bump

 

[Tigger Boy]

The day-year is not universally accepted. There is no evidence for that. It is a rule for Numbers and Ezekiel, but it is not guaranteed in all prophecies. Your method violates "The Rules of interpretation": internal textual time signatures take precedence over importing external time signatures. SDA's say that because they need that to get to Oct 22, 1844, without it that date is in jeopardy and your whole structure must be reexamined.

1. Daniel 8: uses Evenings & Mornings not day-year,
2. Daniel 9: uses Heptads and Sabbath years (Shavuim). That is what the text says.

You are following William Miller's Mistake and making it law it did work then and it does not work now.

Bob, could you answer the following questions?

1. Where in the scripture is a universal law that says to use the day-year in ALL-time prophecy? Number and Ezekiel do not count they are only talking about Numbers and Ezekiel.

2. Where is the evidence that Historicists universally accept the day-year principle in all-time prophecies?

3. What evidence do you cite, other than William Miller, that the 2300 evenings & mornings are anything other than a day?

Adventist Heretic, your posts have caught my interest. Being an Adventist myself for over forty years, I have never heard of an (SEA). Please enlighten me?

Too, your statement, "Your method violates "The Rules of interpretation": internal textual time signatures take precedence over importing external time signatures." Are you saying this is an (SDA) rule for interpreting time, within apocalyptic prophecy? If so, were is that stated?

I am a longtime student of apocalyptic prophecy and have never heard or found it stated in Adventist literature.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Adventist Heretic, your posts have caught my interest. Being an Adventist myself for over forty years, I have never heard of an (SEA). Please enlighten me?

SEA is a sub-branch of Adventism. It is an informal branch of the SDA church which I am attempting to formalize and put structure to. It has always been part of the SDA church from its earliest days. It is the branch that wants to use the Bible only.
Traditionalist: Bible + All of EGW
Conservative: Bible + Some of EGW, (Conflict of the Ages services, STC, MH, TMB, SR,) this is mainline SDA.
Feast Keepers: Bible + All or Some of EGW + Jewish Festivals
Evangelical: Bible only - Same tools that apply to everyone else.
Liberal: Bible is not divine + lax lifestyle, jewelry, wine drinking, lax on movie standards, pro meating eating, pro dancing.
Progressive: Liberal + LGBTQ issues

Too, your statement, "Your method violates "The Rules of interpretation": internal textual time signatures take precedence over importing external time signatures." Are you saying this is an (SDA) rule for interpreting time, within apocalyptic prophecy? If so, were is that stated?

SDA's follow the rule of William Miller. The day-year principle applies in ALL time prophecies. Well, the above post shows that it does not. The day-year may apply in a prophecy, but the text should tell us that. If the text tells us to use some other method, we use a different method. If it does not tell us then we are free to experiment. I first ran into the rules of interpretation in the work of Clarence Hewitt in his work on Daniel commenting on the SDA view of the 2300 days.

I am a longtime student of apocalyptic prophecy and have never heard or found it stated in Adventist literature.

You are only looking at SDA literature that is why. Try looking at other systems, like the Messianics or the Sabbath Sentinel. 119 ministries or First fruits of Zion might be helpful. The Sabbath Sentinel Magazine is available for free.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Dan 9 clearly establishes the day-year model as all the Protestant Reformers affirm in their embrace of the Historicist model of prophetic interpretation.

So then 70 - 7s is the 490 days of Dan 9.

With that understanding of apocalyptic timeline interpretation - it all works out perfectly for Dan 7, 8, 9 using the consistent day-for-year model that has been understood in the Historicist model that dominated the Protestant world for so many centuries. The nice thing is everyone pretty much agrees that Dan 9 is using day-for-year.

I see you did not respond to my post. Are you busy or did the answer stump you?