Hey what's up.
Natro said:
If a person on a island in the middle of the ocean lived a good life in his tribe and helped many people and saved many lives die while never having the chance to know about God go to hell?
Why did he do good things? who taught him? why did they teach him? If no one taught him, then how did he know that saving is right and helping others is right? Did he listen to his gut feeling? how does he know that his gut feeling is true? Is there something inside him that comes with this knowledge?
this is where philosophers like Plato and Socrates got stuck.
If yes then why would God create this man knowing full and well no matter how much freewill the man had he would go to hell and receive eternal damnation?
We are not in the position to know who goes to hell or not. The outside surface of the person does not express clearly what is going inside, we can guess but only God knows for certain.
Therefore yes can not be the answer because we are not God to know how to judge this person. If you think it would be wrong to send this person to hell, for what? for not reading the bible? for not knowing God like I know Him? What makes you think that God would not think it is wrong to send someone to hell for something so insignificant, in this case? Just by serving others, we are worshipping God. Thats how simple it is, and always has been.
In my opinion Hell is like seperation from God. And for those who hear the law and know there is a God, but reject Him anyway, they will be judged.
If someone does not here the law but know right from wrong, but they choose to be greedy and rule over people, and reject the painful cries of others, this too will receive judgement.
The thing is, God is Spirit, not just "Written" words. For example, i can write something but its not the same as me speaking to you in person, where my words can be felt and clearly understood than this letter.
This is why ancient philosophers never liked the idea of writing things down.
But His words were Spoken, His words were Written, so there is no excuse.
I also believe that we are all going to be Judged at the same time.
If no then why write the bible at all?
The Bible was written because people felt it needed to be written. On the outside this is how it seems. But how do you know that it was not their "gut feeling" (or the Holy Spirit) that made them get together and put together a bible all about the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit?
why do we need a bible if we have free will?
Why do we need cars that honk if we know how to look both ways?
Some of us don't follow directions, some of us are deaf.
Once again, because of the compressing effect written words have, the Bible is the basis but there is still something missing. Without that, the Bible is meaningless. In other words, i see the bible as the basis to distinguishing the voice of God, so i move from the Written word, to the Spoken word. From Judaism to Christianity, from Moses to Jesus.
He could have left us to our own devices leaving us with true freewill and if we got too evil he could have blantantly revialed himself to us and say what he needed to say to change our way of life.
See that word "too evil", what is too evil? can something actually be too evil? who accepts a little bit of evil? how accepts some evil? who likes evil! (Think, what i may think is evil, might be pleasure to you. This is not what i am speaking about. but simply think of what You think is evil and tell me if You would accept it, or some of it. in other words, evil is evil.)
As for God revealing himself. You are aware that the God i believe in is all powerful. Now, at this point i would have to wonder off in Christianity. But i am learning to stay focused.
God has spoken, even written what we need to do to change our lives. apparently it didn't work the way you expected it to work, or else you wouldn't be asking this quesion. It's not just hearing or reading that makes us christians, there are plenty of things that happen spiritually, but once again, i don't want to wonder off.
(if you say that some would still be evil that is also wrong considering a All powerful God would know exactly what would be needed to make a person be a good person).
Good observation. since i said that God did reveal Himself, does this make God semi-powerful?
Ok heres something. I AM a farmer, (yes the most used and common analogy, what more can i say) Anyway, i plant a seed. It grows but it grows with some weeds. Am i going to be foolish enough to rip those weeds right out of the ground next to my underdeveloped flowers? God is able to rip evil right out of its roots, But remember this, God didn't give us "salvation" so He can destroy us.
We are those plants entangled with those weeds. If God were to rip those weeds, or Evil, guess what, it would destroy us also. So what does the farmer do? He cuts down the weeds a bit, and maintains them low, He looks for which plants are growing and which plants are dying. some plants will be so involved with the weeds, that they will be one with the weeds. But when harvest arrives, well, God wouldn't have to whisper anymore.
God whispers (trims the weeds down), because its the best way to help that plant grow. If God were to shout like a trumpet, (rip the weeds out), before our time, it would utterly destroy us and He would ruin all his hard work. First God will lift up the harvest, and then He will cast the weeds into the fire.
Well i strayed off to christian concepts. I can't help it.
This is doing less then what he did befor in the bible (the flood the burning down of S and G and dystroying the Tower fo Bable mauling 42 children with 2 bears) and much more effecant.
This is jewish history, and being that i am a christian i wouldn't do it justice trying to explain it my way.
This is deeper than what you think it is. Or why is the bible so difficult to read? I can't even explain tiny peices of it in a few paragraphs, or a few pages (for those who know how much i write), what makes me think that the Bible will answer everything in one shot? What makes me think i can learn it all in one day?
We live life to learn lessons, Until graduation which is after death.
Does this mean that Scripture is worthless? Ofcourse Not! We need the Bible as much as a student needs a text book for Math class.
I see the Bible in deep deep layers.
Take a small peice of paper that has the words
"you found trouble"
on the top. This would be meaningless to me. Then i open the peice of paper and it says
"Misery and dispair",
even more pointless stuff. At this point you can through the piece of paper away. But then since you weren't able to go deeper, you wouldn't be able to read the rest.
"drowning in the storm"
"But at the eye of the storm there was peace."
"a narrow place that a child can find."
"follow for a while until the winds unwind,"
"The dark clouds leave and the bright sun shines"
I can not say that by reading the bible day and night everything will click, but with enough faith, and dedication, God will find it in His will to reveal what He feels.
That is, because of His grace.
I don't work to find God's favor, but I already found God's favor, because of He who died on the cross for me and for you! revealed His plan of Salvation, in my imperfect condition, not because i was qualified already but because He made me qualified through His blood. and this is why i work and serve Him.
In conclusion. I don't know much about other religions but i know that for christianity, the search starts in the heart, then it leads to the bible, then to someone, then life, then the cycle repeats not exactly in that order, but each time, you to grow and gain wisdom and knowledge and get closer and personal connection with God.
In other words, if someone wrote a manual on how to install a car, i am going to read it, i am not going to throw away the book. Because the book may have something that i couldn't see from where i was looking.
