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Amen, I repent of my naughtiness of every kind, and ask you my brother to pray for me to the Lord our God.How about we both say sorry, shake hands, and forget about it?
You limit the Holy Spirit who guides His Church. You are also adding to what Jesus said. He didn't condition what He said in Luke 10:16. He didn't set any boundaries. You can operate under the assumption that He limited Hos declaration to what is in Scripture, but that position isn't supported by Scripture.I think in Luke 10:16 Jesus meant to carry on what he taught them within the bounds of what he taught. Both in his own words which he God made sure were written down and in the written words of his apostles. And indeed the church operated within those bounds for centuries up to a certain point. Then man started adding in edicts, doctrine and practices outside those bounds.
If everything the church enacted was from the Holy Spirit, it would have a spotless record, which it does not. If the church had stayed strictly within the scope of what Jesus and his apostles taught, there wouldn't have been a reformation. Both Jesus and Paul made it clear that we are to stick to what they taught and not change or add to it. Some tried and it was deemed heresy. But others managed to get away with it.You limit the Holy Spirit who guides His Church. You are also adding to what Jesus said. He didn't condition what He said in Luke 10:16. He didn't set any boundaries. You can operate under the assumption that He limited Hos declaration to what is in Scripture, but that position isn't supported by Scripture.
It really boils down to Peter the "Royal Steward of His Church" ie each Pope.Let's look at Luke 10 and see it in context: context is so very important
Luke 10:10 After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go. 2 Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves. 4 Carry neither money bag, knapsack, nor sandals; and greet no one along the road. 5 But whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ 6 And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest on it; if not, it will return to you. 7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house. 8 Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you. 9 And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.’ 12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city. 13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades. 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.”
17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”
Plain as day - Jesus was NOT addressing the 12 Apostles/Disciples - but seventy others - how you conflate that to instructions to the church, I have no clue.
His Church is made up of sinners. But on the issue of faith, She is a constant equalled by no other man made ChurchIf everything the church enacted was from the Holy Spirit, it would have a spotless record, which it does not
How do you know they didn't? Or are you making the assumption that everything He taught was written down?If the church had stayed strictly within the scope of what Jesus and his apostles taught, there wouldn't have been a reformation.
Exactly. And both Jesus and Paul told us to listen to "The Church".Both Jesus and Paul made it clear that we are to stick to what they taught and not change or add to it.
What Christ said applies to His Church. Rome seems to be the only One with enough faith to claim it.I don't know how RCs relate whatever verses to their ecclesiology, since I don't share it, but I will say that those of us whose churches are founded by one of the seventy rather than the twelve (as the Coptic Orthodox Church is, being as the Church was founded at Alexandria by St. Mark) do not feel that such verses apply to us any less than they do to the Roman Catholics, or for that matter to the Syriac Orthodox or the Greek Orthodox Syrians (or the Maronite Catholics, or the Syriac Catholics...there are a lot of claimants to the chair of St. Peter in Antioch!). In fact, it would be strange if the Romans believed that, even, as they have more individual claimants to Antioch specifically in their communion than any other particular church does.
What Christ said applies to His Church. Rome seems to be the only One with enough faith to claim it.
Please, I may have missed something, but what would be strange if the Romans believed that?In fact, it would be strange if the Romans believed that, even, as they have more individual claimants to Antioch specifically in their communion than any other particular church does.
Please, I may have missed something, but what would be strange is the Romans believed that?
It applies to His Church. Jesus DOES NOT have Churches. There is One. Either step up, claim it, and argue your case, or step aside.If you guys believed that the types of verses that have been being discussed lately in this thread applied to the Roman Catholic Church in particular more than, say, the Syriac Maronite Church, or the Syriac Catholic Church, or any other of the several Catholic-specific claimants to Antioch.
It applies to His Church. Jesus DOES NOT have Churches. There is One. Either step up, claim it, and argue your case, or step aside.
The Roman Catholic Church has claimed it and argued it for close to 2 millennium. I believe she is correct.
Thank you for the compliment. This furthers œcumenical discussion.Typical Anglican thought. Stand firmly for nothing, accept anything.
Then take a stand. Either it's 73 or 66, don't sit on the fence.Thank you for the compliment. This furthers œcumenical discussion.
I have. And I consistently have. It is 73.Then take a stand. Either it's 73 or 66, don't sit on the fence.
and as an Anglican Christian, I recognise that some of them are in the proto-canon and some are in the Deutero-Canon. The difference is that I will not use the Deuterocanonical texts to affirm the truth
Be honest and own it, whatever it may be.I have. And I consistently have. It is 73.
The other issue with the LXX is that originally the LXX meant only the Greek translation of Torah. There are different levels of translation of the OT. As well as different versions of the LXX. Some have additional books others only some. Think of Psalm 151 and 3 Macc and 4 macc. Some include Jubilees as well as 1 Enoch. Some are spot on like the aforementioned Torah. Others vary greatly from being tight and accurate to eh, not so much. Add to that there isn’t an agreed content of the apocrypha even to this very day. Yet the LXX most likely preserves the oldest readings of the disputed passages of the OT. Meaning disputed from the Hebrew to the Greek. Isa 7.14 comes to mind for example Me thinks the difference here is the traditional interpretation vs the exact meaning of the word Almah.This is true, for the most part, however saint Jerome's opinions were not shared by the Church and thus he was asked to produce a translation that included all the books from the LXX and the NT, he used Hebrew sources for his work, but with respect to the seven books I listed in my other post and the longer versions of Daniel and Esther saint Jerome produced a text in Latin and included it in his Bible.
He’s recognized that there wasn’t agreed upon canon until late. Rome didn’t haven’t a declared canon until 1546.Be honest and own it, whatever it may be.
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