Why Stop?

[JillLars]

Thank you Mr. Cheese, and everyone else who has responded with kind, thoughtful replies.

 

[Evening Mist]

Well, I guess I better clarify. No -- sex does is not the equivallent of a verbal comittment in front of witnesses. But sex does bind 2 people together in such a way that separation afterwards becomes excrutiatingly painful. Like divorce. Jill and her boyfriend are bound together in that way.

If they are not married yet because they are trying to "leave themselves room to change their minds," then they are fooling themselves and hurting each other by continuing to have sex. But the truth is that we don't know the depth of their committment to each other.

To the woman who already thinks you're married...excuse me? Don't cheapen my wedding vows. Unmarried sex in NO way constitutes a covenant like marriage.

I'm sorry Cammie, but Jill's sitation has no bearing on the value of your wedding vows. You are 2 different people in 2 different situations. I can't imagine any good coming from comparing yourself in a way that allows you to consider yourself as superior to her. You are essentially calling her "cheap." It is not compasionate or helpful.

 

[JillLars]

Just so everyone knows, my boyfriend and I are not waiting to get married so that we have room to change our minds...we are in it for the long haul. We have thought a lot about getting married and would really like to have a wedding with all of our family and friends there. The problem is money, we both live paycheck to paycheck, and our parents want us to wait till after college so we can pay for it ourselves. I know, I know, its not about the wedding its about the committment, but we have made the commitment, we just have to do it in a church in front of all of our friends and families still. (if that makes sense.)

 

[Mr.Cheese]

*interjects*

Cammie has a...fiery way of putting things. So don't get derailed into an argument. Be patient with one another and perhaps we can all learn from each other.

 

[Evening Mist]

Thanks Jill. It is reassuring to hear you say that. What about an small "official" ceremony now -- and a full blown celebration in a few years? Just a suggestion -- you have to do what seems best to you. But personally, I think the "heart attitude" of "being in it for the long haul" is the most important element. As you said, the official marriage license doesn't seem to protect people from abandonment either.

Thanks for the words of caution, Mr. Cheese. I'll try and stay calm.

 

[IslandBreeze]

Today at 04:23 PM Evening Mist said this in Post #22
I'm sorry Cammie, but Jill's sitation has no bearing on the value of your wedding vows. You are 2 different people in 2 different situations. I can't imagine any good coming from comparing yourself in a way that allows you to consider yourself as superior to her. You are essentially calling her "cheap." It is not compasionate or helpful.

 I wasn't comparing Jill's situation to the value of my wedding vows. I was comparing your comment about something along the lines of them already being married. And I did NOT call Jill cheap. I just don't understand her situation, and I was asking questions with the intent to try and understand her situation.  Please don't put words in my mouth. You can put this in my mouth though: sex outside of marriage--regardless of the level of commitment IS cheap.

 

[IslandBreeze]

Today at 04:29 PM Mr.Cheese said this in Post #24

*interjects*

Cammie has a...fiery way of putting things. So don't get derailed into an argument. Be patient with one another and perhaps we can all learn from each other.

I PM'd you, Mr. Cheese!

I'm not trying to start an argument; I'm truly not. I just wanted to ask a few questions and give my opinion, just like everyone else is doing. If it came across as rude and condescending, I apologize. That wasn't my intent.

 

[rach]

Jill
You said you'd be willing and able to support a child if one happens to come along, well children are expensive, and so as Evening Mist said you could do a small ceremony now, which would be quite inexpensive.

I do understand the whole family thing. I wouldn't want to get married during college if my parents were against it. But maybe if you talked to them about it, they would see your point of view. Although I'm not sure if I'd be able to do that either, since my parents are somewhat hard to talk to. Those are just some suggestions I have. Sorry I can't help more. I'll be praying for you though and this tough decision.

 

[JillLars]

I guess I didn't realize the irony in saying I can afford a baby but not a wedding...I guess I should specify that if I did become pregnant I would have to drop out of school (which I pay for by myself) and so would my boyfriend, for the time being anyways. Hopefully that won't happen. I will consider a small ceremony. It might be nice, I will talk to my boyfriend about it.

And just so you know Cammie, this is not the first thread where you have accused me of cheapening your relationship. Personally, I don't think you have any right to speak about whether or not my relationship is cheap unless you know about it.

 

[seebs]

I find it amazing the degree to which social reaction to a relationship follows social mores, and the interpretation of the exact same Biblical passages changes over time.

 

[IslandBreeze]

Jill--since I don't think you read this the first time, I'll repost it. I didn't call you OR your relationship cheap.

Today at 05:13 PM Cammie said this in Post #26

 I wasn't comparing Jill's situation to the value of my wedding vows. I was comparing your comment about something along the lines of them already being married. And I did NOT call Jill cheap. I just don't understand her situation, and I was asking questions with the intent to try and understand her situation.  Please don't put words in my mouth. You can put this in my mouth though: sex outside of marriage--regardless of the level of commitment IS cheap.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Oh goodness.
Cammie feels passionately about some things, but she's not mean. I read what she wrote and I don't think she meant for this to go where it's going.
Everyone take a deep breath.

 

[IslandBreeze]

Jill- please read this news story.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard020814.html

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

A friend of mine was recently upset becuase they were no longer a vigin, and felt that is was an unforgivable sin, as it could not be reversed! They were overcome by guilt, and felt that God didn't love them as much as someone else. They were wrong! God loves you whatever you do. Aslong as you admit that you are wrong about it, he will forgive you. It will be as though you are a virgin again.

Please read the following.

Psalm 32

1 Blessed is he
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
2 Blessed is the man
whose sin the LORD does not count against him
and in whose spirit is no deceit.
3 When I kept silent,
my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.
4 For day and night
your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was sapped
as in the heat of summer.
Selah
5 Then I acknowledged my sin to you
and did not cover up my iniquity.
I said, "I will confess
my transgressions to the LORD "-
and you forgave
the guilt of my sin.
Selah
6 Therefore let everyone who is godly pray to you
while you may be found;
surely when the mighty waters rise,
they will not reach him.
7 You are my hiding place;
you will protect me from trouble
and surround me with songs of deliverance.
Selah
8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will counsel you and watch over you.
9 Do not be like the horse or the mule,
which have no understanding
but must be controlled by bit and bridle
or they will not come to you.
10 Many are the woes of the wicked,
but the LORD's unfailing love
surrounds the man who trusts in him.
11 Rejoice in the LORD and be glad, you righteous;
sing, all you who are upright in heart

and this story almost brought me to tears as i though of how awful it would be to be in that situation, and how awful a person i care about must feel. But the Lord doesn't want us to feel that way. He loves us too much to let us revel in our sins, and feel impure
This was posted in the recent "Purity" thread, and i pray you get something from this Jill!

I would like to share a small testimony of the power of Purity.

As most of you know, I was in Moscow a few months ago doing missionary work. We were part of a youth camp for teens as well as helpers to the Russian missionaries in Moscow. We went to orphanages and the like. While at the youth camp for about 40 teens I spoke at the girls' small group studies. Each night I'd go to a different small group of girls to share about purity. Now in case you didn't know, aids is rampant in Russia, particularly in Moscow. There are several million homeless teenagers in Russia. Orphanages are packed. the average Russian woman has had six abortions. These are big indications of the state of the Russian people. They desperately need people to go there and invest time into them by helping in orphanages and in soup kitchens.
The first night that I was to speak at small groups, I was praying to God alone outside to ask Him for some sort of illustration that I could use for the girls since there was a huge language barrier (Praise God for the translator). I looked around. Nothing to use. Ah, but wait! There were daisies and wild flowers growing in some of the brush. I plucked two daisies.
I entered the group of about twelve girls and had a seat. The girls had gotten to know me thoughout the day already and they very much were interested in this petite american chick. I (through my Godsend of a translator) started to share about my testimony to remain sexually pure until my wedding night. I shared my struggles, my efforts as well as my successes while giving all the glory to my precious Savior. Their eyes were hanging onto my every word for they had never heard of staying sexually pure before. They didn't know it was possible. they didn't know that a guy existed that didn't demand of his girl to have sex with him. I held up a daisy and said that every girl needed to pluck one petal from the daisy and hold onto the petal. They passed the daisy around while I explained to them that they each represent the daisy - pure, pretty, special, unique, still maturing, beautiful, with much worth. I held up the second daisy that was full and had no plucked petals. I held the sad little daisy that had barely any petals left on it. I explained that every petal taken represents a time when each of these girls has given their body physically to a man. I asked "Now which daisy is more whole, more pleasing to behold?". they all pointed to the daisy with all the petals still on it. I went into detail about the effects of sex before marriage. Many started to weep. One girl asked, "But how can we be like the daisy again if we've already given our bodies up?". I said, "Ah, that is the beauty of this story, you see, even though this one daisy has been picked over it can be replanted and grow into a beautiful daisy all over again." They asked, "But how?". I answered, "Through the love of Jesus Christ you can be whole again." I then went into great detail of the love of Jesus. many girls were teary eyed. I said "Jesus is the daddy you never had, the brother you never knew, and the friend you've always wanted." many started to have peaceful expressions. I said, "If I could, I would take each of your faces into my hands one by one and speak of your incredible worth in Jesus." One girl said, "Will you?". Caught off guard but more than willing I went around to each girl and held their sweet faces in my hands and told them how unique, special, beautiful they are." let's just say many breakthroughs occurred that night. There was one very hard-hearted girl there that started to melt when I took her face in my hands. I bowed down on my knees to look beyond her slumped shoulders and gave her the beautiful daisy that had not been picked apart and said "This, precious girl, belongs to you." She started sobbing and hugged me so tight saying "Spasiba, Spasiba", (Thank you, thank you).
I left to go back to my barracks and the girl came running out with the translator to say "I am the new daisy now! I choose the new daisy." I hugged her and we wept.
On the last day as we were all saying goodbye, all the girls came to me to show me they had eached picked daisies to keep. I was the one that cried this time!

Purity."

love in Christ
Chris

 

[lucypevensie]

Yesterday at 02:14 PM JillLars said this in Post #29 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=675294#post675294)

I guess I didn't realize the irony in saying I can afford a baby but not a wedding...I guess I should specify that if I did become pregnant I would have to drop out of school (which I pay for by myself) and so would my boyfriend, for the time being anyways. Hopefully that won't happen. I will consider a small ceremony. It might be nice, I will talk to my boyfriend about it.

To me this sounds like the 2nd best option you have. The option I'd recommend even more (but I'm sure won't be popular) is that you both take a step back and move out, stop living together in order to remove the temptation to have out-of wedlock sex until you are ready to marry. It sounds like you don't want to risk having a child when things are so financially strapped, married or not. Well, BC does have a failure rate. I know a few kids conceived while BC was being used.

SO.. I say stop, and the best way to stop is to remove the temptation.

JMO

 

[Mr.Cheese]

From what I've read concerning her family life, I think I understand where Jill is coming from. I'm not gonna look down on her for her current living situation. I think she's doing the best she can with what she has.

 

[JillLars]

Today at 07:43 PM lucypevensie said this in Post #35

To me this sounds like the 2nd best option you have. The option I'd recommend even more (but I'm sure won't be popular) is that you both take a step back and move out, stop living together in order to remove the temptation to have out-of wedlock sex until you are ready to marry. It sounds like you don't want to risk having a child when things are so financially strapped, married or not. Well, BC does have a failure rate. I know a few kids conceived while BC was being used.

SO.. I say stop, and the best way to stop is to remove the temptation.

JMO

I can't move out, don't have anywhere else to live...as I have mentioned before...I also think that this isn't the right time to get married simply because of everything that my family is going through...if I can give them a couple years to get settled I think it will be happier for everyone...complicated circumstances...

 

[JillLars]

Today at 10:26 AM Cammie said this in Post #33

Jill- please read this news story.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard020814.html

Cammie, I read the article you posted, and in no way shape or form does that survey describe anything about my relationship or my boyfriend as a person.  I'm not sure if you were trying to imply those things about him, but it kind of came off that way.  Unless you know my boyfriend, and me, you really aren't in any position to judge me. 

 

[OLDoMiNiON]

Thats the point. We are not judging you, just trying to prove to you that what you are doing is wrong in Gods eyes! If you want to carry on doing it, then by all means - it's between you and God. But if you are serious about being a christian, shouldn't you be more like Jesus? I leave it upto you!
(btw - please read my last post - it may help you a bit!)

l.i.C
Chris

 

[JillLars]

Well for Cammie to post an article about how guys don't want to get married for all those different reasons, is judging me and my boyfriend, it doesn't prove that what I'm doing is wrong in God's eyes, its just taking a shot at my relationship based on some survey that generalizes guys.