WHY SOLA SCRIPTURA MAKES SENSE - UPDATED.

LoveofTruth said:

This is the error you speak here, consider

"...if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21 KJV)

It is now the Holy Ghost that guides us into all truth and believers are made free from the law of sin and death by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. This is a new and living way.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16:13 KJV)

"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.” (1 John 2:20 KJV)

“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.” (1 John 2:27 KJV)

“And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:” (John 16:8 KJV)

and the rest...

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No one receives the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) by disobeying and not loving God. You are confusing justification with love and faith.

Jesus speaking here....

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So we can't receive His Spirit by not loving Him which is being disobedient to Him.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.

We are not justified by the law, we are justified by God, keeping God's law is a consequence of our faith, disobedience is rebellion - two choices. Two roads. Two Paths. The choice is ours...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 ]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It helps to reconcile scripture if we start at the end result when Jesus comes because at that time all decisions will be made, and our fates sealed. Rev 22:11 If you see the end result that lawlessness separates us from Jesus - why keep promoting this same position as if Jesus is going to change His mind and everyone, He has condemned in scripture, we are more special and He is going to give us a pass, when He says He won't, because it shows we did not believe in Him to live by His teachings and the example He left for us to follow.

LoveofTruth said:

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:18-24 KJV)

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Yet how many people who quote this never have even tried to keep God's law and think bypassing the schoolmaster will bring them to Christ.

Psa 19:The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;

The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ because it converts the soul, until faith. Can't skip this step.

Once we have faith then what happens?

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So we keep God's law to convert the soul until faith which brings us to Christ and once we have faith we establish the law and once in Christ He enables us to obey the law.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Its really a beautiful thing, yet so many argue against for some strange reason.

SabbathBlessings said:

No one receives the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) by disobeying and not loving God. You are confusing justification with love and faith.

Jesus speaking here....

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.

We are not justified by the law, we are justified by God, keeping God's law is a consequence of our faith, disobedience is rebellion - two choices. Two roads. Two Paths. The choice is ours...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 ]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

It helps to reconcile scripture if we start at the end result when Jesus comes because at that time all decisions will be made, and our fates sealed. Rev 22:11 If you see the end result that lawlessness separates us from Jesus - why keep promoting this same position as if Jesus is going to change His mind and everyone, He has condemned in scripture He is going to give us a pass, when He says He won't because it shows we did not believe in Him to live by His teachings and the example He left for us to follow.

Yet how many people who quote this never have even tried to keep God's law and think skipping this step will bring them to Christ.

Psa 19:The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;

The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ because it converts the soul, until faith. Can't skip this step.

Once we have faith then what happens?

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

So we keep God's law to convert the soul until faith which brings us to Christ and once we have faith we establish the law and once in Christ He enables us to obey the law.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

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Jesus gave many commandments that are unique to the New Testament. He would even say it has been said and then quote the Mosaic law and right after that he would say “but I say unto you”. So yes we (only as we abide in Christ and he in us through faith) can do all things the Spirit teaches, but it is God which works in us by a Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ being in us we can do nothing. As scripture shows. We read this aspect of having Jesus in us and how we continue in his word here,

John 15: 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17. These things I command you, that ye love one another.”

Notice Jesus commands “things” (plural things here) and he was not speaking specifically of Moses law. He speaks of hearing the Father's commands (and he is not referring to the Ten Commandments there), and he speaks of a new commandment.

Jesus also said as the Father gave him commandment so he gives us . This hearing the Father inwardly (John 6:44) and Jesus commanding us in His word in us is different than trying to follow Moses law outwardly. You miss this vital aspect. So it is not men trying to keep outward ordinances or laws or sabbaths or sacrifices etc. In the new covenant we walk in the Spirit and are not under the law.

When all believers have Jesus in them they hear the word of God inwardly this word is Gods command. To continue in “his” word, is not speaking specifically of following the letter written and engraved in stones. It is to walk in the spirit and be led of the spirit in the love of God. Faith works by love.

Jesus rebuked others for not hearing his word or having his word abide in them. He says this to religious men who stood in front of him who heard him speak physically and who also thought they were following Moses law. But he that is only those that are if God Who hear Gods words. To hear Gods word inwardly is how we obey and follow his leading and commands.

Paul was living in this word inwardly in Christ and had Jesus speak in him (2 Cor.13:3 KJV) and the things he wrote were the commandments of the Lord . No man knows these things of God in the spirit unless they are in the spirit and have Gid working in them.

1 Corinthians 14: 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

These commandments of the Lord here, are not the Mosaic law or the sabbath etc or other ordinances , they are for those who walk in the spirit and who hear the word of God inwardly and who have been taught of the Father and Jesus abd the Holy Ghost.

Consider,

John 8: 31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free…. 37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father…. 40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham… 43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word…. 47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”

Notice that Jesus spoke of continuing in “his” word. To do this they needed to have his word abiding in them this is when a person is born again by the word of God. Only then can they see the kingdom and hear the commands of God inwardly. But these men Jesus spoke to heard his word in the physical but they did not hear his word in the spirit. So they could not obey his commands. This was not speaking of the Mosaic law here.

Jesus gave many commands that we don’t read directly in the Mosaic law. There are many of them that would take too long to list.

When Jesus used the mosaic law with the rich young ruler. He was using it as a searchlight on the man’s heart to show him his sin and to bring him to himself (Jesus) in a broken spirit and humble heart to have belief in himself (Jesus) and have life.

The only way the rich young ruler could show his repentance in this covetous issue was to repent believe in a Jesus trusting in Gods righteousness and have inward life. Then if he gave his goods to the poor this would show forth his repentance abd faith.

Nowhere do we see that if a man tries to establish his own righteousness by keeping the law or the sabbath that he will be righteous.

We are warned of this error many followed here,

Romans 10: 3. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;”

Again we read of the word of faith inwardly connected to hearing God that gives lifer and how we hear and obey Gods commands.

I am not saying that believers should not obey the voice of Jesus speaking commands in them. Far from it. I ask saying that to hear his voice is inward by the Spirit and only in faith does Christ dwell in our hearts and speak and command our spirits. This is far different from trying to keep outward ordinances in the natural and expecting that work in the flesh to justify a man.

Yes, believers do physical things and show forth their faith by the life they live in the world. But all works are from the spirit. They keep the commands of Jesus as they hear his word inwardly. The fruit of the spirit is more spiritual like live, patience, goodness, temperance, joy, etc This is not speaking of Old Testament ordinances and shadows. They live in the newness of life not the old ness of the letter spiritually.

Romans 7: 6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

They live in the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that Maude them free from the law of sin and death.,Roman’s 8.

LoveofTruth said:

Jesus gave many commandments that are unique to the New Testament. He would even say it has been said and then quote the Mosaic law and right after that he would say “but I say unto you”. So yes we (only as we abide in Christ and he in us through faith) can do all things the Spirit teaches, but it is God which works in us by a Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ being in us we can do nothing. As scripture shows. We read this aspect of having Jesus in us and how we continue in his word here,

John 15: 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17. These things I command you, that ye love one another.”

Notice Jesus commands “things” (plural things here) and he was not speaking specifically of Moses law. He speaks of hearing the Father's commands (and he is not referring to the Ten Commandments there), and he speaks of a new commandment.

Jesus also said as the Father gave him commandment so he gives us . This hearing the Father inwardly (John 6:44) and Jesus commanding us in His word in us is different than trying to follow Moses law outwardly. You miss this vital aspect. So it is not men trying to keep outward ordinances or laws or sabbaths or sacrifices etc. In the new covenant we walk in the Spirit and are not under the law.

When all believers have Jesus in them they hear the word of God inwardly this word is Gods command. To continue in “his” word, is not speaking specifically of following the letter written and engraved in stones. It is to walk in the spirit and be led of the spirit in the love of God. Faith works by love.

Jesus rebuked others for not hearing his word or having his word abide in them. He says this to religious men who stood in front of him who heard him speak physically and who also thought they were following Moses law. But he that is only those that are if God Who hear Gods words. To hear Gods word inwardly is how we obey and follow his leading and commands.

Paul was living in this word inwardly in Christ and had Jesus speak in him (2 Cor.13:3 KJV) and the things he wrote were the commandments of the Lord . No man knows these things of God in the spirit unless they are in the spirit and have Gid working in them.

1 Corinthians 14: 37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

These commandments of the Lord here, are not the Mosaic law or the sabbath etc or other ordinances , they are for those who walk in the spirit and who hear the word of God inwardly and who have been taught of the Father and Jesus abd the Holy Ghost.

Consider,

John 8: 31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free…. 37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father…. 40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham… 43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word…. 47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”

Notice that Jesus spoke of continuing in “his” word. To do this they needed to have his word abiding in them this is when a person is born again by the word of God. Only then can they see the kingdom and hear the commands of God inwardly. But these men Jesus spoke to heard his word in the physical but they did not hear his word in the spirit. So they could not obey his commands. This was not speaking of the Mosaic law here.

Jesus gave many commands that we don’t read directly in the Mosaic law. There are many of them that would take too long to list.

When Jesus used the mosaic law with the rich young ruler. He was using it as a searchlight on the man’s heart to show him his sin and to bring him to himself (Jesus) in a broken spirit and humble heart to have belief in himself (Jesus) and have life.

The only way the rich young ruler could show his repentance in this covetous issue was to repent believe in a Jesus trusting in Gods righteousness and have inward life. Then if he gave his goods to the poor this would show forth his repentance abd faith.

Nowhere do we see that if a man tries to establish his own righteousness by keeping the law or the sabbath that he will be righteous.

We are warned of this error many followed here,

Romans 10: 3. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above 7. Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8. But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;”

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We have been through these before, the Ten Commandments is not the law of Moses. Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 Exo 32:16 if we can't believe what God said and wrote personally, not sure anything else matters.

Its hard to reason with something who thinks what God wrote and God spoke alone is doing our righteousness and not God's Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-6 But when we keep our own rules, that's His righteousness, as if we are god. Not what Jesus taught plainly Mat 15:3-14 or what these passages mean.

LoveofTruth said:

Again we read of the word of faith inwardly connected to hearing God that gives lifer and how we hear and obey Gods commands.

I am not saying that believers should not obey the voice of Jesus speaking commands in them. Far from it. I ask saying that to hear his voice is inward by the Spirit and only in faith does Christ dwell in our hearts and speak and command our spirits. This is far different from trying to keep outward ordinances in the natural and expecting that work in the flesh to justify a man.

Yes, believers do physical things and show forth their faith by the life they live in the world. But all works are from the spirit. They keep the commands of Jesus as they hear his word inwardly. The fruit of the spirit is more spiritual like live, patience, goodness, temperance, joy, etc This is not speaking of Old Testament ordinances and shadows. They live in the newness of life not the old ness of the letter spiritually.

Romans 7: 6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

They live in the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that Maude them free from the law of sin and death.,Roman’s 8.

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May I show you through scripture what Jesus teaches how one walks in the Spirit verses the letter? He showed us this right from the Ten Commandments teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement.

This is Jesus speaking here, Words we are to live by:

Mat 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother [e]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’[f] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
27 “You have heard that it was said [i]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to [j]sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to [k]sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

This is a very powerful teaching of Jesus which is what Paul refers to many times, but sadly people twist out of context and miss the very important lesson Jesus taught.

Is Jesus teaching we can break the letter of the Ten Commandments? That we can literally murder someone as long as we don't have anger in our heart and literally commit adultery as long as we don't have lust. Sadly this is what most teach, but it is far from it. He is teaching if we are walking in His Spirit, He changes our heart and instead of feelings of anger and contempt, we have love and compassion for our neighbor and thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. Same if don't let our hearts linger on things we should not be, thou shalt not commit adultery would automatically be kept. Walking in the spirit of the law is greater than the letter not lessor. If we are breaking the letter, we can be assured we are not walking in the spirit.

Paul teaches this exact teaching, you quoted part of it but you cut out the whole context....

Romans 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh(sin) but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

How does one have peace?

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

It's why Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments quoting two of the Ten Commandments, because breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12. It why God wrote His law and placed them in our hearts, Heb 8:10-12 He gives us the power to change our heart and enables to keep as long as we don't rebel and in doing so our hearts are far from Him and leads us down the wrong path. Mat 15:3-14. Jesus wants us close, its why He placed His law in our hearts because it brings us to Him Psa 19:7 Gal 3:24 and once we have true faith, it establishes the law Rom 3:31 and once in Christ He enables us to keep it. John 14:15-18

LoveofTruth said:

John 15: 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17. These things I command you, that ye love one another.”

Notice Jesus commands “things” (plural things here) and he was not speaking specifically of Moses law. He speaks of hearing the Father's commands (and he is not referring to the Ten Commandments there), and he speaks of a new commandment.

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So basically you are teaching Jesus taught to do as I say, not as I do, the opposite of scripture 1 John 2:6 because Jesus kept the Ten Commandments and your teaching indicates we should ignore His teaching such as Mat 15:3-14, Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mark 7:7-13 etc. which means Jesus is teaching how to keep our hearts far from Him Mat 15:3-14 which is not abiding in His love And now we can worship other gods, vain His holy name, covet and murder and Jesus contradicted Himself previously when He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten. Mat 5:19-30 Is this how we should interpret these scriptures and how we abide in His love? On the contrary! There is another way to interpret this passage that keeps in harmony with all of His teachings instead of pitting one verse against the other.

Do you know that love to God and love to neighbor is keeping His commandments

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Love to God is keeping His commandments- the first 4 is love to God. Love to neighbor is keeping the last 6. The summary- love to God and love to neighbor does not delete the details- the commandments. And as Jesus taught the Ten Commandments are so much more than what is stated if keeping the spirit of the law, which is greater, not lessor than the letter. Mat 5:19-30 and why His law is the perfect law of Liberty Psa 19:7 James 2:10-12 because it is written by the finger of God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 kept under His mercy seat in heaven Rev 11:19 and what all man will be Judged by Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” This is the second greatest commandment love thy neighbor which we see are the commandments of our moral duty towards man. Love to God- the greatest commandment are the summary of the first 4 our moral duty how to love God. All of the scriptures hang on these two commandments- love to God, love to man.

Because we can't love God by worshipping other gods, bowing to idols, using His name in vain or breaking His holy Sabbath day.

We can't love our neighbor when we commit adultery, murder, steal, bear false witness etc. It really is just common sense.

We can't love Jesus, know Him or honor Him or our neighbor by doing any of these things. This is a teaching from the other spirit who wants to keep us in the bondage of sin 1 John 3:8 which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 instead of looking to the law of liberty the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 to free us through the Spirit of Truth John 14:15-18. Can you imagine how much freedom one would have if everyone was keeping God's law- no more crime, no more murder, lies, adultery everyone would be in harmony with God - it sounds like heaven. Its why those who practice unrepented sin and unrighteousness will be missing out Heb 10:26-30, instead of coming in harmony with God's will for us. Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10 through love and faith John 14:15 John 15:10 Rev 14:12 Rom 3:31 which reconciles Rev 22:14

SabbathBlessings said:

We have been through these before, the Ten Commandments is not the law of Moses.

Click to expand...

You are wrong here we read of the law written and engraved in stones which was connected to Moses giving the law.

We read this in 2 Cor.3

2 Corinthians 3: 7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

Notice that the law and the Ten Commandments are referred to as being written and engraved the Ten Commandments were written in the book of the law and engraved in stones.

Also Paul quotes the law part of the Ten Commandments abd says “the law had said” showing the Ten Commandments are part of the law.

Romans 7: 7. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.@

You are wrong in your teaching here.

And read here of “the whole law“.

Deuteronomy 4: 8. And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? 13. And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. 14. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.”

The ten commandments were part of the law of Moses. Yes, even the Gentiles which have not the law have the work of the law written in thier hearts (Roman’s 2:14-16, as all men do (Deuteronomy 30) showing that the commandments were not far from all connected to the word of God near them on thier hearts and Gods voice.

SabbathBlessings said:

So basically you are teaching Jesus taught to do as I say, not as I do, the opposite of scripture 1 John 2:6 because Jesus kept the Ten Commandments and your teaching indicates we should ignore His teaching such as Mat 15:3-14, Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mark 7:7-13 etc. which means Jesus is teaching how to keep our hearts far from Him Mat 15:3-14 which is not abiding in His love And now we can worship other gods, vain His holy name, covet and murder and Jesus contradicted Himself previously when He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten. Mat 5:19-30 Is this how we should interpret these scriptures and how we abide in His love? On the contrary! There is another way to interpret this passage that keeps in harmony with all of His teachings instead of pitting one verse against the other.

Do you know that love to God and love to neighbor is keeping His commandments

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Love to God is keeping His commandments- the first 4 is love to God. Love to neighbor is keeping the last 6. The summary- love to God and love to neighbor does not delete the details- the commandments. And as Jesus taught the Ten Commandments are so much more than what is stated if keeping the spirit of the law, which is greater, not lessor than the letter. Mat 5:19-30 and why His law is the perfect law of Liberty Psa 19:7 James 2:10-12 because it is written by the finger of God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 kept under His mercy seat in heaven Rev 11:19 and what all man will be Judged by Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” This is the second greatest commandment love thy neighbor which we see are the commandments of our moral duty towards man. Love to God- the greatest commandment are the summary of the first 4 our moral duty how to love God. All of the scriptures hang on these two commandments- love to God, love to man.

Because we can't love God by worshipping other gods, bowing to idols, using His name in vain or breaking His holy Sabbath day.

We can't love our neighbor when we commit adultery, murder, steal, bear false witness etc. It really is just common sense.

We can't love Jesus, know Him or honor Him or our neighbor by doing any of these things. This is a teaching from the other spirit who wants to keep us in the bondage of sin 1 John 3:8 which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 instead of looking to the law of liberty the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 to free us through the Spirit of Truth John 14:15-18. Can you imagine how much freedom one would have if everyone was keeping God's law- no more crime, no more murder, lies, adultery everyone would be in harmony with God - it sounds like heaven. Its why those who practice unrepented sin and unrighteousness will be missing out Heb 10:26-30, instead of coming in harmony with God's will for us. Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10 through love and faith John 14:15 John 15:10 Rev 14:12 Rom 3:31 which reconciles Rev 22:14

Click to expand...

All have sinned , except Jesus . So all men broke the law. The law is not of faith, Paul said he through the law was dead to the law it slew him and was a ministration of condemnation and death.

No man can do anything in the life and spirit unless Jesus Christ is on him through faith. Without Christ we can do nothing.

SabbathBlessings said:

So basically you are teaching Jesus taught to do as I say, not as I do, the opposite of scripture 1 John 2:6 because Jesus kept the Ten Commandments and your teaching indicates we should ignore His teaching such as Mat 15:3-14, Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19 Mark 7:7-13 etc. which means Jesus is teaching how to keep our hearts far from Him Mat 15:3-14 which is not abiding in His love And now we can worship other gods, vain His holy name, covet and murder and Jesus contradicted Himself previously when He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten. Mat 5:19-30 Is this how we should interpret these scriptures and how we abide in His love? On the contrary! There is another way to interpret this passage that keeps in harmony with all of His teachings instead of pitting one verse against the other.

Do you know that love to God and love to neighbor is keeping His commandments

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Love to God is keeping His commandments- the first 4 is love to God. Love to neighbor is keeping the last 6. The summary- love to God and love to neighbor does not delete the details- the commandments. And as Jesus taught the Ten Commandments are so much more than what is stated if keeping the spirit of the law, which is greater, not lessor than the letter. Mat 5:19-30 and why His law is the perfect law of Liberty Psa 19:7 James 2:10-12 because it is written by the finger of God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 kept under His mercy seat in heaven Rev 11:19 and what all man will be Judged by Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” This is the second greatest commandment love thy neighbor which we see are the commandments of our moral duty towards man. Love to God- the greatest commandment are the summary of the first 4 our moral duty how to love God. All of the scriptures hang on these two commandments- love to God, love to man.

Because we can't love God by worshipping other gods, bowing to idols, using His name in vain or breaking His holy Sabbath day.

We can't love our neighbor when we commit adultery, murder, steal, bear false witness etc. It really is just common sense.

We can't love Jesus, know Him or honor Him or our neighbor by doing any of these things. This is a teaching from the other spirit who wants to keep us in the bondage of sin 1 John 3:8 which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 instead of looking to the law of liberty the Ten Commandments James 2:10-12 to free us through the Spirit of Truth John 14:15-18. Can you imagine how much freedom one would have if everyone was keeping God's law- no more crime, no more murder, lies, adultery everyone would be in harmony with God - it sounds like heaven. Its why those who practice unrepented sin and unrighteousness will be missing out Heb 10:26-30, instead of coming in harmony with God's will for us. Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10 through love and faith John 14:15 John 15:10 Rev 14:12 Rom 3:31 which reconciles Rev 22:14

Click to expand...

Love fulfills the law and every time some read the words “commandments” they wrongly assume the Ten Commandments. There are verses that I showed about other commandments, in the spirit and only known and done by believers .

LoveofTruth said:

Love fulfills the law

Click to expand...

And love is more than a feeling, nor does it go undefined in scripture. John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6

That why God said right in the Ten Commandments, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Obeying Him has always been about love. If we love God we will only worship Him. If we love our neighbor we won't steal from them. This is how love fulfills the law, not I love you but I am not going to do anything you ask. That is called rebellion in scriptures and sin, which separates us from God Isa 59:2

LoveofTruth said:

and every time some read the words “commandments” they wrongly assume the Ten Commandments. There are verses that I showed about other commandments, in the spirit and only known and done by believers .

Click to expand...

So when I quote directly from Jesus does that mean He "wrongly assumed" when He quotes directly from the Ten Commandments such as Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 . We are to live by every Word from the mouth of God. Mat 4:4 He will only lead us on the narrow path back to Him, teaching to go away from what Jesus taught only leads one in a ditch. Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19 Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:4 I am going to stick with what He said.

LoveofTruth said:

You are wrong here we read of the law written and engraved in stones which was connected to Moses giving the law.

We read this in 2 Cor.3

2 Corinthians 3: 7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

Notice that the law and the Ten Commandments are referred to as being written and engraved the Ten Commandments were written in the book of the law and engraved in stones.

Also Paul quotes the law part of the Ten Commandments abd says “the law had said” showing the Ten Commandments are part of the law.

Romans 7: 7. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.@

You are wrong in your teaching here.

And read here of “the whole law“.

Deuteronomy 4: 8. And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? 13. And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. 14. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.”

The ten commandments were part of the law of Moses. Yes, even the Gentiles which have not the law have the work of the law written in thier hearts (Roman’s 2:14-16, as all men do (Deuteronomy 30) showing that the commandments were not far from all connected to the word of God near them on thier hearts and Gods voice.

Click to expand...

Well your argument is not with me, because this is God's writing personally. Moses is not God.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. This is God- He calls His Ten Commandments right in the unit of Ten- My commandments, not the commandments of Moses or the law of Moses. This is God's work alone, why give glory to Moses for God's work? Moses certainly didn't take credit for it.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He (God) commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments consisted of just that and God added no more to them. The other laws were all handwritten by Moses called the law of Moses and was placed outside the ark as a witness against for breaking the Ten Commandments Deut 31:24-26 what was inside which is God's law that defines what sin is when breaking 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 and what all man will be Judged by Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Unless one understands the difference of these laws, the law that defines what sin is and the laws that was added because of transgression to God's holy law, Paul will be virtually impossible to understand. We could always rely on the teachings of Jesus, but that's been shot down too many times. Guess no point in continuing as we always end up in the same spot. So many scripture never reconciled, just on to the next argument. Like I said before, we will have to agree to disagree and all gets sorted out soon enough.

SabbathBlessings said:

And love is more than a feeling, nor does it go undefined in scripture. John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6

Click to expand...

“And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” (John 14:16 KJV)

SabbathBlessings said:

That why God said right in the Ten Commandments, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Obeying Him has always been about love. If we love God we will only worship Him. If we love our neighbour we won't steal from them. This is how love fulfills the law, not I love you but I am not going to do anything you ask. That is called rebellion in scriptures and sin, which separates us from God Isa 59:2

Click to expand...

All Have already sinned and broken Gods law. Thats why God had a sacrifice for sin, the law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15) and by the law is the knowledge of sin,and exposes man in his sin and leads them to the need of the sacrifice for sin, which was a shadow of Christ one time sacrifice for sin. The new testament is in Jesus Christ blood, as he said.

If all have broken the law and they then say they kept this law or that, they still have broken the law. If your hanging by a cliff over a fire by ten links and you break one link you are still going to fall.

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10 KJV)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?” (John 7:19 KJV)

SabbathBlessings said:

So when I quote directly from Jesus does that mean He "wrongly assumed" when He quotes directly from the Ten Commandments such as Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 .

Click to expand...

Jesus would quote the ten commandments and say

"“It is also written in your law,..." (John 8:17)

but in Matthew when he said

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; ..." (Matthew 5:21 KJV)

then he would say,

"But I say unto you..." (Matthew 5:22 KJV)

and when i speak of the word commandments we read Paul saying the things he wrote ( all the scriptures he wrote unless he specifically said a few time that certain things he wrote were not by commandments, but everything else was the commandment of the Lord). And Jesus would say he gave a new commandment etc.

SabbathBlessings said:

We are to live by every Word from the mouth of God.

Click to expand...

If men do not have Jesus Christ in them, then they do not have the word sown in their heart and have not his word abiding in them. To have his word abiding in them is to hear his voice and commands as he leads us. When Paul and others wrote scripture they heard this word of God in them. We read of men in the past having the word of God come to them and they heard it and wrote it down. Jesus said if you continue in my word. He also said to some that they did not have his word abiding in them . So he that is if God heareth Gods words.

Also the Old Covenant was a bondage for those who were in it. We do not go back to the bondage if we have been free in Christ. Now the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death.

So I will follow Jesus and the leading of the Spirit. This is how we understand scripture and how we continue n his word. Yes, when we read things of Jesus like love your enemy or many commands he gave to believers we have his word in us revealing the truth and the witness is in ourself as we abide in that word. There is a manifestation of the truth (2 Cor. 4L2 KJV) as we read or hear any speak the word. Our conscience also bears witness.

SabbathBlessings said:

Mat 4:4 He will only lead us on the narrow path back to Him, teaching to go away from what Jesus taught only leads one in a ditch. Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19 Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:4 I am going to stick with what He said.

Click to expand...

I never teach to go away from what Jesus taught. But certain things Jesus taught were in a context of men who were also under the law and did animal sacrifice and were under the law. But Jesus finished the work and died and rose again. All the shadows are giving way to the substance and reality of what he did.

Jesus spoke of them at that time even doing various things of the law ( that were to end in time) like tithing etc but he warned them that they omitted the weightier matters of the law.

Jesus also was circumcised as being under the law. But Paul says now if men are circumcised they are debtor to do the whole law.

SabbathBlessings said:

Well your argument is not with me, because this is God's writing personally. Moses is not God.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. This is God- He calls His Ten Commandments right in the unit of Ten- My commandments, not the commandments of Moses or the law of Moses. This is God's work alone, why give glory to Moses for God's work? Moses certainly didn't take credit for it.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Deut 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His covenant which He (God) commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments consisted of just that and God added no more to them. The other laws were all handwritten by Moses called the law of Moses and was placed outside the ark as a witness against for breaking the Ten Commandments Deut 31:24-26 what was inside which is God's law that defines what sin is when breaking 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 and what all man will be Judged by Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15

Unless one understands the difference of these laws, the law that defines what sin is and the laws that was added because of transgression to God's holy law, Paul will be virtually impossible to understand. We could always rely on the teachings of Jesus, but that's been shot down too many times. Guess no point in continuing as we always end up in the same spot. So many scripture never reconciled, just on to the next argument. Like I said before, we will have to agree to disagree and all gets sorted out soon enough.

Click to expand...

the ten commandments were also written in the book. Yes they were originally written with the finger of God, but they were part of the old covenant as you even showed that verse, But the old covenant was fading away ready to vanish in its ministration to them. The lawmade nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did.“For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

The law was added because of transgression. The commandments are saying don't do this or that and other things. But they do not give the power to have Gods love in the heart. They show men that they are not in the love of God when they break them and lead them to the need of Christ to save them.

Peace to all,

To me, the spirit is present before creation is even created was ever created, as The Word, the eternal law of the Universe as all laws combined. When applied to the physical world, the Body, the Word became Flesh, is becoming unfailing order and fulfilling faith and morality throughout the universe as Transfigured.

Peace always,
Stephen

LoveofTruth said:

“And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.” (John 14:16 KJV)

All Have already sinned and broken Gods law. Thats why God had a sacrifice for sin, the law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15) and by the law is the knowledge of sin,and exposes man in his sin and leads them to the need of the sacrifice for sin, which was a shadow of Christ one time sacrifice for sin. The new testament is in Jesus Christ blood, as he said.

If all have broken the law and they then say they kept this law or that, they still have broken the law. If your hanging by a cliff over a fire by ten links and you break one link you are still going to fall.

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10 KJV)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?” (John 7:19 KJV)


Jesus would quote the ten commandments and say

"“It is also written in your law,..." (John 8:17)

but in Matthew when he said

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; ..." (Matthew 5:21 KJV)

then he would say,

"But I say unto you..." (Matthew 5:22 KJV)

and when i speak of the word commandments we read Paul saying the things he wrote ( all the scriptures he wrote unless he specifically said a few time that certain things he wrote were not by commandments, but everything else was the commandment of the Lord). And Jesus would say he gave a new commandment etc.

If men do not have Jesus Christ in them, then they do not have the word sown in their heart and have not his word abiding in them. To have his word abiding in them is to hear his voice and commands as he leads us. When Paul and others wrote scripture they heard this word of God in them. We read of men in the past having the word of God come to them and they heard it and wrote it down. Jesus said if you continue in my word. He also said to some that they did not have his word abiding in them . So he that is if God heareth Gods words.

Also the Old Covenant was a bondage for those who were in it. We do not go back to the bondage if we have been free in Christ. Now the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death.

So I will follow Jesus and the leading of the Spirit. This is how we understand scripture and how we continue n his word. Yes, when we read things of Jesus like love your enemy or many commands he gave to believers we have his word in us revealing the truth and the witness is in ourself as we abide in that word. There is a manifestation of the truth (2 Cor. 4L2 KJV) as we read or hear any speak the word. Our conscience also bears witness.

I never teach to go away from what Jesus taught. But certain things Jesus taught were in a context of men who were also under the law and did animal sacrifice and were under the law. But Jesus finished the work and died and rose again. All the shadows are giving way to the substance and reality of what he did.

Jesus spoke of them at that time even doing various things of the law ( that were to end in time) like tithing etc but he warned them that they omitted the weightier matters of the law.

Jesus also was circumcised as being under the law. But Paul says now if men are circumcised they are debtor to do the whole law.

Click to expand...

Anyone can make any argument they want by plucking out a verse here and a verse there, but they will never receive the Truth of God's Word. I tried many times to bring in the whole context, but it seems not of interest.

Many don't believe in Jesus teachings and just as you indicated and think when Jesus says "whoever" means "other people" the ones "under" the law. instead of what Jesus kept, lived and taught as our example 1 John 2:6 and His Word we are to live by Mat 4:4 Is meant for others I guess we will see how it all works out. Jesus tells us how it does, Mat 7:23 Mat 5:19 1 John 2:3-6 Rev 22:14-15 but guess thats meant for other people for their learning and correction instead of ours. 2 Tim 3:16

LoveofTruth said:

the ten commandments were also written in the book. Yes they were originally written with the finger of God, but they were part of the old covenant as you even showed that verse, But the old covenant was fading away ready to vanish in its ministration to them. The lawmade nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did.“For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He (God) wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

The law was added because of transgression. The commandments are saying don't do this or that and other things. But they do not give the power to have Gods love in the heart. They show men that they are not in the love of God when they break them and lead them to the need of Christ to save them.

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So we are to take your word that Moses wrote the Ten Commandments and put it beside the ark and ignore Deut 31:24-26 when God in His own Word that He personally wrote and spoke said otherwise. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 after God personally wrote the Ten Commandments He added no more Deut 5:22 its a stand alone unit what all man will be Judged by James 2:10-12, not handwritten in a book but engraved in stone by the finger of God Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 not placed outside the ark, placed inside Exodus 25:16 Exo 40:20 and God said He would not alter His Words Psa 89:34 which is why the words of His covenant is now placed in our hearts Heb 8:10 based on better promises Heb 8:6 and God keeps His promises. Pro 30:5-6 There is no Greater Authority so I am going to believe His Word and live by them, because Jesus tells us clearly what happens when we rebel and keep our own rules in lieu of God’s commandments, its not the path we are told to take Mat 15:3-14, but we are given free will.


So your understanding is the law that defines sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30, is the same law that was added because of transgression- (breaking the law that defines sin) . As stated, unless you understand the different laws and their purposes, Paul will never be understood properly. Not every one cares and thats their choice because it does require a lifestyle change, not meant to punish but to bless and join ourselves with Christ. Isa 56:1-6 to receive His sanctification Eze 20:12 because man cannot sanctify themselves we need God.

Even when scriptures clearly disagree with you, you won't allow It to correct as we are told 2 Tim 3:16

I'm bowing out, there is no point in continuing so I am signing out of this thread, unless another poster would like to examine the scriptures in their full context and reconcile with the rest of the scriptures and with the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is my last post to you, but I really do wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word. You take care.

SabbathBlessings said:

Anyone can make any argument they want by plucking out a verse here and a verse there,

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That is a false argument And I see it an admission that the scriptures I show you correct your teaching but you are unwilling to change no matter what scripture is shown.

It’s like sone who say , “I believe what I believe , don’t bother me with the facts”

SabbathBlessings said:

but they will never receive the Truth of God's Word. I tried many times to bring in the whole context, but its obvious, not of interest.

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All your arguments failed not one justified any believer to be bound up again under the law to be righteous or by keeping a sabbath law which was a shadow of things to come.
I’m truly believe the veil on in the heart of many who read the Old Testament and who seek to establish their own righteousness by the law.

They will eventually have no other option but to “bow out”

SabbathBlessings said:

Many don't believe in Jesus teachings

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I believe all Jesus teachings. But many things Jesus said were for those in context to what time he spoke and being under the law also.

To miss this is to miss as great deal

Jesus also said he had many things to say and yo judge of them but they were not able to hear them until the Holy Ghost would guide them into all truth.

We see sone of this time of reformation abdf transition from the old covenant to the new covenant in Acts and other places. But many were still struggling under the law as believers even many years after Christ death, (Acts 25, 21)

SabbathBlessings said:

So the law that defines sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12, is the same law that was added because of transgression (sin).

Even when scriptures clearly disagree with you, you won't allow them to guide you.

I'm bowing out, there is no point in continuing. This is my last post to you so be well.

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The true Light lighteth every man that comes into the world (John 1:9) The light will reprove all sin (John 3). Even those who did not have the Mosaic law had the work of the law written in thier hearts (Roman’s 2:14) and God did not leave himself without witness .

LoveGodsWord said:

Hi all wanted to update this one to show that faith in God's Word alone is the sole source of eternal life.

Those who seek to tear it down do so at their own peril. In it is the light of life and without it there is only darnkess. Those who do not come to the light (the Word) do not come lest their evil deeds are exposed. This is the reason many seek to put out the light. It is a lamp and a light to our path and without it we cannot find our way to JESUS.

Let's share the scriptures...

PSLAMS 27:1 The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

PSLAMS 36:9 For with you is the fountain of life: in your light shall we see light.

PSLAMS 43:3 O send out your light and your truth: let them lead me; let them bring me to your holy hill, and to your tabernacles.

PSLAMS 119:105 YOUR WORD IS A LAMP UNTO MY FEET AND A LIGHT UNTO MY PATH.

PSALMS 119:130 THE ENTRANCE OF YOUR WORDS GIVES LIGHT; IT GIVES UNDERSTANDING TO THE SIMPLE

PROVERBS 6:23 FOR THE COMMANDMENT IS A LAMP AND THE LAW IS LIGHT; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

ISAIAH 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is NO LIGHT IN THEM

JOHN 1:1-4; 14 [1], In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. [2], The same was in the beginning with God. [3], All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4], In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [5], And THE LIGHT (Word) SHINES IN DARKNESS; and the darkness comprehended it not.

[14] AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMOUNG US and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

JOHN 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that LIGHT (the Word) IS COME INTO THE WORLD, and men loved darkness rather than LIGHT (the Word), because their deeds were evil. FOR EVERYONE THAT DOES EVIL HATES THE LIGHT (the Word), neither comes to the LIGHT (the Word), lest his deeds should be reproved. BUT HE THAT DOES TRUTH COMES TO THE LIGHT (the Word), that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.

JOHN 8:12 Then spoke Jesus again to them, saying, I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD (The Word see JOHN 1:1-4; 14): he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16-17 [16], ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD (God breathed) and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. [17], That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished to all good works.

2 TIMOTHY 2:15 STUDY TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED TO GOD, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.

JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I HAVE SAID TO YOU.

JOHN 16:13 [13], However, WHEN HE THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH IS COME HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

JOHN 17:17 SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THE TRUTH THY WORD IS TRUTH

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD THEN YOU ARE MY DISCIPLES INDEED AND YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

EPHESIANS 2:8 [8], FOR BY GRAECE ARE YOU SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (links to)

ROMANS 10:17 FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD

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According to the scriptures God's salvation only comes by faith in God's WORD. If there is no Word there is no faith and if there is no faith there is no salvation to those who reject God's Words. There is no righteousness without faith as there is no faith without Gods' Word. BEWARE of those who seek to teach you contrary to the scriptures.

What are your thoughts?

ACTS 17:11 [11], These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE (no flamming and goading)

God bless.

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God's Word wasn't necessarily all recorded in Scripture alone as Scripture, itself, attests. Aside from that the Bereans and the Ethiopian Eunuch, as examples, required help from an outside source, Christ's disciples, in order to correctly understand Scripture. Disagreement over the meaning of Scripture is a significant problem between those who adhere to Sola Scriptura.

If any outside teaching goes away from God’s Word, there is no light- meaning its danger. Isa 8:20 so changing one Word we are warned Pro 30:5-6. God’s Word is to be the light to our path Psa 119:105 not teachings and doctrines of commandments of man Mat 14:3-14 Mark 7:7:13

Its why the Bereans examined the scriptures to be sure it was so Acts 17:11

LoveofTruth said:

All have sinned , except Jesus . So all men broke the law. The law is not of faith, Paul said he through the law was dead to the law it slew him and was a ministration of condemnation and death.

No man can do anything in the life and spirit unless Jesus Christ is on him through faith. Without Christ we can do nothing.

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So, do you plan to continue sinning or will you do as Jesus asks of us to repent, remember that Jesus always said after healing, ""go and sin no more" this is a command! it means try and try again until you get it right. None will enter the Kingdom of they do not repent.

You hide behind words of Paul that you misinterpret, if is not the law that is dead but the penalty of sin. Why do you think that in Matt, John, Luke and mark Jesus was teaching the commandments to have them abolished a few years later? will you choose the narrow path that leads to eternal life of the wide path that leads to death! the choice is yours. God asks us to choose life.

Deuteronomy 30:19
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."


Wake up time is short. Repent the Kingdom of heaven is at hand.

JesusFollowerForever said:

time is short.

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Amen!