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Do you feel that info is necessary for salvation? The OT saints knew Jesus but not by the five letters J-e-s-u-us. They knew Him as Yahweh, and knew nothing about the cross. This is saving faith. Saving faith CAN involve doctrine but need not do so, because first and foremost it means meeting the Lord, which happens by Direct Revelation. For example, John the Baptist was Spirit-filled even from the mother's womb. What did He know about the cross at that point? Nothing.It would be interesting if someone could identify who Jesus and why He came to earth, and what He did on the cross for us, by some other source of information than the Scriptures.
How do we know whether it is the right Jesus, and not a demon pretending to be Him? Seeing that, according to a well-known author, that nine out of every ten impressions come from the world, flesh or the devil, then just accepting some sort of direct "revelation" might be very risky. If a person "meets" a Jesus by direct revelation and not through reading and studying the written gospels, then they probably are not encountering the Jesus of the Bible.By meeting Him. That's what Direct Revelation is.
Salvation isn't obtained by reading about Jesus. It's obtained by meeting Jesus, and then continuing to meet with Him on a regular basis. Admittedly He hasn't yet appeared to you and me as CLEARLY as He did to the great prophets. But He has shown Himself to you, indistinctly. Otherwise you'd only have a written biography, and thus no relationship with Him, no fellowship with Him, and no salvation.
I'm trying to clarify the difference between exegesis and Direct Revelation. I hope you're taking it all in.
How do you know it is the real Jesus? The Scripture says that if someone says that Jesus is here or He is there, or out in the desert, don't believe him. Even if someone who looks like Jesus appears to me, I would tell it to go away because I am waiting to see the real Jesus when I get to glory and meet Him face to face. It would be interesting to know what Jesus looked like when he got the visitation. If he was an European with long straight brown hair and a small beard, I would say the "vision" is a fake.Jesus comes directly to you, as occurred here.
Faith cometh by hearing the divine Word. In both Rom 4 and Galat 3, Paul points us back to this example:
"The Word of the Lord came to [the prophet] Abram in a [revelatory] vision" (Gen 15).
Abraham didn't receive a Bible. He received Christ the divine Word, and heard His voice:
"My sheep listen to my voice, I know them, and they follow me" (Jn 10:27).
Thus salvation has never been by the written Word. It has ALWAYS been by the divine Voice speaking the truth into our hearts.
If you are ignoring the Scriptures, in my opinion, you cannot know any of this. Faith comes by hearing the word of God, and that comes through the Scriptures. If faith came through direct revelation, then it would have been said that way. Jesus had Abraham tell the rich man in hell that if the guy's brothers didn't believe Moses and the prophets (the existing OT Scriptures) then even someone rising from the dead wouldn't convince them. It seems that Jesus made the written Scriptures the basis of faith, and did not mention anything about direct revelation.Do you feel that info is necessary for salvation? The OT saints knew Jesus but not by the five letters J-e-s-u-us. They knew Him as Yahweh, and knew nothing about the cross. This is saving faith. Saving faith CAN involve doctrine but need not do so, because first and foremost it means meeting the Lord, which happens by Direct Revelation. For example, John the Baptist was Spirit-filled even from the mother's womb. What did He know about the cross at that point? Nothing.
Do you feel that info is necessary for salvation? The OT saints knew Jesus but not by the five letters J-e-s-u-us. They knew Him as Yahweh, and knew nothing about the cross. This is saving faith. Saving faith CAN involve doctrine but need not do so, because first and foremost it means meeting the Lord, which happens by Direct Revelation. For example, John the Baptist was Spirit-filled even from the mother's womb. What did He know about the cross at that point? Nothing.
Students of ancient language know that written language existed well before Moses. It is quite believable that Moses had access to written material which he, as inspired by the Holy Spirit, compiled it into what we know as the book of Genesis.Not really dear friend. Before the written word of God there was the spoken Word of God (see
GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). This is why it is written of Abraham in GENESIS 26:5 that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The scriptures teach that Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God in ROMANS 10:17 so there is two ways to receive God's Word.
That is [1] by the spoken Word of God and [2] by the written Word of God.
Now, if faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God how can you have faith if you teach there is no Word? You cannot and if you cannot have faith because you have no Word than all you have is sin because the scriptures teach "WHATSOEVER is not of faith is sin *ROMANS 6:23.
Can you see dear friend that what your teachings is another gospel that is not biblical and will lead you away from God and His Word? If you have no Word you have no faith and if you have no faith then all you have left is sin and the wages of sin according to the scriptures is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMAN 10:17; ROMANS 14:23; ROMANS 6:23.
May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
Reading the gospels won't solve the problem because the feeble human mind - no matter how well versed in the Scriptures - cannot properly, on its own, conceptualize an ineffably holy God - it will only form and worship a conceptual idol that is a far cry from the real God. Consider the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and the Jews. All these people study the gospels and STILL worship the wrong God! This is why you need Direct Revelation.How do we know whether it is the right Jesus, and not a demon pretending to be Him? Seeing that, according to a well-known author, that nine out of every ten impressions come from the world, flesh or the devil, then just accepting some sort of direct "revelation" might be very risky. If a person "meets" a Jesus by direct revelation and not through reading and studying the written gospels, then they probably are not encountering the Jesus of the Bible.
Good point Paul there is no other way other then the Word of God.It would be interesting if someone could identify who Jesus and why He came to earth, and what He did on the cross for us, by some other source of information than the Scriptures.
See my last post 71.I see, so how do you know it is not the devil coming to you?
By meeting Him. That's what Direct Revelation is.
Salvation isn't obtained by reading about Jesus. It's obtained by meeting Jesus, and then continuing to meet with Him on a regular basis. Admittedly He hasn't yet appeared to you and me as CLEARLY as He did to the great prophets. But He has shown Himself to you, indistinctly. Otherwise you'd only have a written biography, and thus no relationship with Him, no fellowship with Him, and no salvation.
I'm trying to clarify the difference between exegesis and Direct Revelation. I hope you're taking it all in.
No need there was no scripture provided only your opinion which is not biblical.See my last post 71.
See post 71.Indeed so how do you know if your not meeting the devil?
In my opinion, "direct revelation" belongs to the likes of Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn. They can dream up all sorts of things and call it direct revelation.Reading the gospels won't solve the problem because the feeble human mind - no matter how well versed in the Scriptures - cannot properly, on its own, conceptualize an ineffably holy God - it will only form and worship a conceptual idol that is a far cry from the real God. Consider the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and the Jews. All these people study the gospels and STILL worship the wrong God! This is why you need Direct Revelation.
You're asking how can we know that we are worshiping the true God. The question of "how do I know something" is a difficult one that seems to ultimately lead to some circularities. A more realistic goal is to reach a state where we FEEL that we know something, that is, that we FEEL CERTAIN of something. That's how Direct Revelation works - God let's us know something by persuading our minds, causing us to feel certain about it. For example, based on Sola Scriptura, Paul had for 20 years believed that the Messiah would liberate captive Israel. That's why Paul couldn't imagine for a moment that Jesus Christ was the Messiah. Then, on the Road to Damascus, he saw a vision and heard a voice that caused him to feel certain that Jesus was the Messiah. He immediately threw out 20 years of Bible-based conclusions and never looked back.
Feeling certain is authoritative because it places upon you a moral obligation, since there are no conceivable exceptions to the following rule (which I refer to as the rule of conscience):
"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B"
Since that's an inviolable rule, Direct Revelation has no choice but to operate within that framework. In order to influence us effectively it MUST elevate our degree of certainty in regard to the message delivered. Therefore we can draw self-evident, tautological conclusions like this one:
"You can accept a revelation without question when it raises your level of certainty so high that you CANNOT question the veracity of the message - when you find yourself literally UNABLE to question it."
Nope nothing mentioned there your just ignoring the question asked of you. The only standard of right and wrong is the Word of God.See post 71.
No need there was no scripture provided only your opinion.
Of course I believe the scriptures are true. I have provided them here in this OP showing why they disagree with you. Only God' Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. All you have provided is your own catholic teachings and opinions that are not biblical. I can understand why as the Catholic Church does not follow the bible.My beliefs typically take into account first principles (axioms) that seem to be tautologies. You have no first principles? Too bad. I guess you don't believe that Scripture is true - you have no basis for that belief since you have no first principles.
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