Why Sola Scriptura isn't God's plan

[Ortho_Cat]

The question is very relevant. If the scriptures are the word of God then God knows His word and has preserved it. Nothing that the councils could have done could have changed the final outcome because no book that was not the word of God could have made it to the canon. See the quandary?

So you deny that the members of the council had free will, then? The members of the council were holy men who co-operated with the grace of God to preserve the authentic apostolic tradition which had been handed down and put into written form. Not all of it, mind you, just that which was written down and deemed to be found worthy of canonization.

 

[SummaScriptura]

How soon you think Catholics and Protestants be back togrether?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

There's only one that I know of.

"Roman Catholic sects There are many groups outside [?] the Roman Catholic Church which are regarded as Catholic sects, such as the Community of the Lady of All Nations, the Palmarian Catholic Church, the Philippine Independent Church, the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church, the Free Catholic Church, the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, and others." - Sect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The (common) argument that because there are differences among Protestants, therefore they've all got it wrong, Catholicism came first, is superficial.

The differences between the Apostolic (and or Early) Church and Rome should be alarming.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I really don't have much to say in response to your post since I am not Catholic. Perhaps a Catholic might care to take up this discussion with you...

Orthodox Catholic Church? Anyway, I have a different question for you, related to the topic. Suppose I am shopping for a Church. I go to a Catholic priest , an Orthodox bishop , and a Protestant pastor . They all claim their teachings are established by Jesus Christ and the apostles, but upon doing some research I find their teachings are quite different. Which of them do I put stock in, and how will I know I've made the right decision?

 

[Heavens]

I came across this article a while ago:

The Practical Problems With Sola Scriptura

Protestant apologists, please read and counter the above criticism against sola scriptura.

Thanks!

Totally ignorant article.

First lines show ignorance as to what Scriptural Sola even is;

An essential part of this doctrine, as it has been historically articulated by Protestants, is that theology must be done without allowing Tradition or a Magisterium (teaching authority) any binding authority. If Tradition or a Magisterium could bind the conscience of the believer as to what he was to believe then the believer would not be looking to Scripture alone as his authority.
A necessary corollary of the doctrine of sola scriptura is, therefore, the idea of an absolute right of private judgment in the interpretation of the Scriptures. Each individual has the final prerogative to decide for himself what the correct interpretation of a given passage of Scripture means, irrespective of what anyone-or everyone-else says. If anyone or even everyone else together could tell the believer what to believe, Scripture would not be his sole authority; something else would have binding authority. Thus, according to sola scriptura, any role Tradition, a Magisterium, Bible commentaries, or anything else may play in theology is simply to suggest interpretations and evidence to the believer as he makes his decision. Each individual Christian is thus put in the position of being his own theologian.

Lol.

It's just a "control" thing by a carnal group of "authoritarians" trying to bully others into thinking the "establishment" has pre-eminence.
It's no different than other cultish denominations who attempt to "mastermind" over the members. Those who get sucked into such a group are simply parrots of a religious system that has gone altogether hijack into parts unknown or unspoke by God.

The Holy Spirit guides Scriptura Sola students. Not individual logic or private theology. Those against Scriptura Sola are simply the lost with no understanding of the Word of God. Look at those groups that preach against Scriptura Sola and what they preach and how they carry on. They haven't a remote clue of the things of God because of the perversion of scriptures by their carnal traditional and totally blind "authorities".

Scriptura Sola is God's ONLY desire for individuals.

(2Ti 3:15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

(Act 17:11) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

This is God's word to individuals.

He opens our eyes;

(Luk 24:45) Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

No one else can do that
Especially the authors of that article that spawned this thread. They are as lost as those who listen to them.

 

[Dark_Lite]

"Roman Catholic sects There are many groups outside [?] the Roman Catholic Church which are regarded as Catholic sects, such as the Community of the Lady of All Nations, the Palmarian Catholic Church, the Philippine Independent Church, the Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church, the Free Catholic Church, the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, and others." - Sect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The (common) argument that because there are differences among Protestants, therefore they've all got it wrong, Catholicism came first, is superficial.

The differences between the Apostolic (and or Early) Church and Rome should be alarming.

There is only one Catholic Church. Those other groups schismed from it or schismed from groups that schismed from the Church. None of them are in communion with Rome. Most of them are probably from the Old Catholic tradition. They claim apostolic succesion, and some may even have it, but they are certainly not Catholic for the purposes of this conversation.

 

[Dark_Lite]

It's just a "control" thing by a carnal group of "authoritarians" trying to bully others into thinking the "establishment" has pre-eminence.
It's no different than other cultish denominations who attempt to "mastermind" over the members. Those who get sucked into such a group are simply parrots of a religious system that has gone altogether hijack into parts unknown or unspoke by God.

Unsupported assertions are fun. If you think the ancient Churches attempt to mastermind over their members, you should check again. I mean, have you seen the state of Catholic belief in the United States? Oh yeah, they're doing such a good job at controlling our minds. Oh, and then there's the fact that all denominations have at least some doctrinal unity within themselves and some kind of hierarchy, just like Catholicism and Orthodoxy. But let's not let facts get in the way of our own reality, right?

The Holy Spirit guides Scriptura Sola students. Not individual logic or private theology.

Then the Holy Spirit seems to have a case of multiple personality disorder, or many of those people being "guided" aren't listening very well or they're actually being mislead by evil spirits. There is a large amount of contradictory beliefs amongst Sola Scriptura adherents. Which set of beliefs is correct?

Those against Scriptura Sola are simply the lost with no understanding of the Word of God. Look at those groups that preach against Scriptura Sola and what they preach and how they carry on. They haven't a remote clue of the things of God because of the perversion of scriptures by their carnal traditional and totally blind "authorities".

More unsupported assertions with a dash of insulting rhetoric. Yawn. Come up with something better than "they are wrong because clearly they are blind." This is a place that requires one to support their views, not fling out baseless insults.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Dark_Lite; Unsupported assertions are fun. If you think the ancient Churches attempt to mastermind over their members, you should check again. I mean, have you seen the state of Catholic belief in the United States? Oh yeah, they're doing such a good job at controlling our minds.

That said, you on the other hand, claim doctrinal unity on the "strength" of Magesterial assertions.

Oh, and then there's the fact that all denominations have at least some doctrinal unity within themselves and some kind of hierarchy, just like Catholicism and Orthodoxy. But let's not let facts get in the way of our own reality, right?

You mean, inerrancy, required celebacy, etc. aside?

Then the Holy Spirit seems to have a case of multiple personality disorder,

...even in your own congregations.

...or many of those people being "guided" aren't listening very well or they're actually being mislead by evil spirits.

There's about one in every 12.

There is a large amount of contradictory beliefs amongst Sola Scriptura adherents. Which set of beliefs is correct?

Which of the large amount of contradicting beliefs that people in your church have is correct?

...See the whole point of Sola Scriptura is that it makes it possible for you to find out for yourself, without having to blindly trust & ask someone like me.

 

[ivebeenshown]

...See the whole point of Sola Scriptura is that it makes it possible for you to find out for yourself, without having to blindly trust & ask someone like me.

Which is exactly what David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc. did, so people could blindly trust someone like him.

 

[Dark_Lite]

That said, you on the other hand, claim doctrinal unity on the "strength" of Magesterial assertions.
You mean, inerrancy, required celebacy, etc. aside?
...even in your own congregations.
There's about one in every 12.Which of the large amount of contradicting beliefs that people in your church have is correct?

...See the whole point of Sola Scriptura is that it makes it possible for you to find out for yourself, without having to blindly trust & ask someone like me.

What individual Catholics believe does not matter. Claiming that the personal opinions of Catholics creates a division in Catholicism that is equivalent to the divisions in Protestantism is disingenuous. The Catholic Church has one set of teachings. The Protestant denominations, however, being all completely disparate movements, have numerous conflicting sets of teachings. And certain denominations have doctrinal disunity within themselves! Baptists are a good example. The extreme emphasis placed on the local church leads to widespread disagreement within the Baptist movement.

 

[sunlover1]

Which is exactly what David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc. did, so people could blindly trust someone like him.

And so what's your point?
Someone was depraved and so that makes Scripture null and void?

 

[Rick Otto]

Which is exactly what David Koresh, Jim Jones, etc. did, so people could blindly trust someone like him.

So what does that prove?
Not that Sola Scriptura is wrong, rather that people can be every bit as wrong as people blindly trusting infallably inerrant pontiffs who disbelieve in freedom of religion enough to burn people alive for disagreeing.

 

[ivebeenshown]

And so what's your point?
Someone was depraved and so that makes Scripture null and void?

No, it's that (most) people are fallible interpreters so Sola Scriptura is null and void.

 

[StThomasMore]

How horrifying.

actually Jefferson's butchering and plagiarizing of the bible was quite horrifying.

 

[StThomasMore]

What individual Catholics believe does not matter. Claiming that the personal opinions of Catholics creates a division in Catholicism that is equivalent to the divisions in Protestantism is disingenuous. The Catholic Church has one set of teachings. The Protestant denominations, however, being all completely disparate movements, have numerous conflicting sets of teachings. And certain denominations have doctrinal disunity within themselves! Baptists are a good example. The extreme emphasis placed on the local church leads to widespread disagreement within the Baptist movement.

I don't think baptists believe in a universal unifying Church. They are independent and many pride themselves on being cut off and separated from the big groups, which they believe are corrupt. They believe the universal Church is false ecumenism. More kinda the 'true underdog' view.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Dark_Lite;What individual Catholics believe does not matter.

Easy for you to say. Try telling that to a billion individual Catholics.

Claiming that the personal opinions of Catholics creates a division in Catholicism that is equivalent to the divisions in Protestantism is disingenuous.

Is it as disingenuous as substituting the word "opinions" for "beliefs"?
Your concept of unity seems self-servingly flexible.

The Catholic Church has one set of teachings.

That would be a misleading oversimplification. Maybe they have closer to one "official' set of teachings, but the Magesterium doesn't surveil each & every classroom & individual priests & nuns tend to flavor their curriculum with opinion.

The Protestant denominations, however, being all completely disparate movements, have numerous conflicting sets of teachings

...And no surprise. Many of them still carry Rome's baggage in doctrines & practices. Churchianity has Christianity in a headlock.

And certain denominations have doctrinal disunity within themselves! Baptists are a good example. The extreme emphasis placed on the local church leads to widespread disagreement within the Baptist movement.

Oh my! Christians having disagreements! How ever will we get our daughters married?Relax. Enjoy your liberty in Christ while you can. The immature & willfully ignorant are having their day, but it will soon be over.

 

[Rick Otto]

No, it's that (most) people are fallible interpreters so Sola Scriptura is null and void.

Most people are bad mathmeticians so math is worthless.
i get it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

actually Jefferson's butchering and plagiarizing of the bible was quite horrifying.

Seems some of that occurs right here on the GT board
We all but sheep destined for slaughter

http://www.christianforums.com/t7245442-2/#post47285908
The "lambkin" in Revelation and John 21 question

Young) Acts 8:32 And the contents of the Writing that he was reading was this: `As a sheep unto slaughter/sfaghn <4967> He was led,
and as a lamb before His shearer dumb, so He doth not open His mouth;
[Isaiah 53:7/Romans 8:36/Reve 5:6]

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lambkin standing, as having been slaughtered/slain/esfagmenon <4969> (5772)

 

[SummaScriptura]

I don't think baptists believe in a universal unifying Church. They are independent and many pride themselves on being cut off and separated from the big groups, which they believe are corrupt. They believe the universal Church is false ecumenism. More kinda the 'true underdog' view.

Dr. More, please don't put heresy in the mouths of Baptists. You know, even Wikidpedia is better than you running off the top of your head. For your information, Baptists subscribe to the Apostles Creed. Its Catholics who deny the Universal Church by claiming to be it. Roman Catholic is an oxymoron after all.

 

[Chesterton]

Roman Catholic is an oxymoron after all.

Roman Catholics are neither Roman nor Catholic. Discuss amongst yourselves. (I'm getting all verklempt.)