Why Sola Scriptura isn't God's plan

[Hentenza]

So when Paul talks of appointing particular men as bishops he's saying to appoint them as Jesus?

Post the verse.

 

[Montalban]

What? Do you belong to a private country club?

You're welcome to join.

Hint: Christ established ONLY one universal church.

Funny that you accept the Catholic definition of Catholic!

When Ignatius first used it, it meant 'complete'.

Deflecting does not help your argument.

You're also confused on who'd deflecting. Unable to defend your own position you've been (quite successfully) getting us to address your goal-shift. For that I'm sure you deserve some recognition.

Both your denomination and the RC claim to be the "one true" church but you have radically different "T"raditions including the "apostolic succession". Both of your traditions can not be true so how do you know which one (if any) is true?

That's another piece of illogic.

If I claim that I am Hentenza, and you make that claim, does it mean you are wrong because we both made the same claim?

Your illogic here is you've jumped from talking about that there might be one church, to which church is that church.

 

[Hentenza]

When it comes to doctrinal diviation of the truth (i.e. Arian controversy etc) then Tradition becomes a necessity IMHO. To me if one is orthodox (small o) that is because of Tradition. The councils are part of that... or we will have lots of Protestants who are Arian in their theology...so IMHO tradition as in dogma has passed into the Protestant Churches... Or the Holy Trinity... as much as someone tries to detach himself from it ... they still cannot .... Can we be orthodox Christians if we get rid of the councils? NOPE we will have to deny the canon of the Bible...too.. Makes sense??

Sister, we are going to disagree.

 

[Montalban]

Post the verse.

1 Timothy 3: 1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;

and

Titus 1:6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled

 

[Montalban]

I know what the EO believes but that, in it self, does not justify the EO's argument of the co-authority of scripture and tradition. Again, the RC has different "T"raditions than the EO which has different "T'raditions than other tradition plus scripture churches. Basically we have ONE word of God and many "T"raditions making "T"raditions subjective to which church one belongs to.

Which is yet another piece of illogic.

You questioned what those traditions are, not whether they're correct or not.

You asked for a list. Twice now you've shot down your own refutation by admitting you know what we believe.

You've confused that with a totally different argument, 'is what we believe correct'.

The problem here is you keep arguing one thing for another.

 

[Philothei]

Sister, we are going to disagree.

God bless Hentenza

 

[Hentenza]

You're welcome to join.

I am already part of the one true church. Your denomination is part of it too.

Funny that you accept the Catholic definition of Catholic!

Actually I do not. Catholic is an adjective not a noun.

You're also confused on who'd deflecting. Unable to defend your own position you've been (quite successfully) getting us to address your goal-shift. For that I'm sure you deserve some recognition.

What goal shift? You claim that scriptures are co-authoritative with Tradition but you can not quantify Tradition so excuse me if we don't just take your word for it.

So who's "T"raditions are the "true" (TM) Traditions? Yours? The RC's? Other tradition plus scripture denomination's?

 

[Hentenza]

You questioned what those traditions are, not whether they're correct or not.

I can not know if they are correct or not unless I know what they are.

You asked for a list. Twice now you've shot down your own refutation by admitting you know what we believe.

I'm yet to get the list.

 

[Montalban]

I am already part of the one true church. Your denomination is part of it too.

As noted, you refute yourself by arguing against us here.

Actually I do not. Catholic is an adjective not a noun.

It is both. Sometimes that happens in English

And for Catholics it means 'universal', which is how you used it.

What goal shift? You claim that scriptures are co-authoritative with Tradition but you can not quantify Tradition so excuse me if we don't just take your word for it.

You shifted from demanding a list, to not.

So who's "T"raditions are the "true" (TM) Traditions? Yours? The RC's? Other tradition plus scripture denomination's?

That's another question, as I noted.

But you seem to confuse issues.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

So when Paul talks of appointing particular men as bishops he's saying to appoint them as Jesus?

Sorry, I ROFL'd...

 

[Montalban]

I can not know if they are correct or not unless I know what they are.

You said you know what we believe. You've said it twice now!

And knowing what they are is different from knowing that they are true. But you're still stuck on the first point, as you keep demanding something yet saying you already know it

I'm yet to get the list.

Yes, I noted already you don't have a point, other that to undermine yourself!

 

[Ortho_Cat]

If you guys want to talk about EO tradition, someone bump up the 'tradition talk' thread

 

[Montalban]

Sorry, I ROFL'd...

Well they do have their personal Jesus

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Well they do have their personal Jesus

Actually Jesus is very personal. I can go straight to Him, without the intercession of a priest, a pastor, or praying to any saint in heaven or to Mary. As a matter of fact, the Bible says I can approach God's throne with confidence, so that I may receive His mercy and grace to help me in my time of need (Hebrews 4:16). Since Jesus is the only Mediator between me and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and He is my Savior and Lord, I would say that is very personal.

 

[laconicstudent]

<staff edit>
"....and in a random format I arbitrarily specify".

 

[Montalban]

"....and in a random format I arbitrarily specify".

Only if it's a PPD is it true!
-anon

(well, actually me)

 

[Montalban]

Actually Jesus is very personal. I can go straight to Him, without the intercession of a priest, a pastor, or praying to any saint in heaven or to Mary. As a matter of fact, the Bible says I can approach God's throne with confidence, so that I may receive His mercy and grace to help me in my time of need (Hebrews 4:16). Since Jesus is the only Mediator between me and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and He is my Savior and Lord, I would say that is very personal.

It's funny you can say that yet you need to quote an authority of scriputre to me to do so

God works through other men.

 

[Thekla]

It's funny you can say that yet you need to quote an authority of scriputre to me to do so

God works through other men.

Whom we are not to trust

Which is problematic for the EO, as the Holy Scriptures carry such great authority in our Church ..

 

[Montalban]

...and women too

 

[Rick Otto]

Actually Jesus is very personal. I can go straight to Him, without the intercession of a priest, a pastor, or praying to any saint in heaven or to Mary. As a matter of fact, the Bible says I can approach God's throne with confidence, so that I may receive His mercy and grace to help me in my time of need (Hebrews 4:16). Since Jesus is the only Mediator between me and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and He is my Savior and Lord, I would say that is very personal.

Indeed. Imagine being flip about a brother's personal relationship with Jesus.