Why so many rules?

[razeontherock]

So I will go out on a limb and then argue that most Protestants are extremely far off then with their "Jesus loves you" approach seeing as how its not really the simple. Is that not a fair assessment?

I do see your point and that was a good comeback - but no, that's not a fair assessment. The difference is "the Love of G-d." Really, we shouldn't even use the word Love" in English, because what we mean is so foreign and that word is so common. There are those who claim Jesus did this very thing when using "agape," as it wasn't used or even well-defined. I'm certainly no Greek scholar so I won't opine about that, but it is one way of making the point ...

 

[razeontherock]

So the Old testament is not pertinent to Christianity?

Just because its not the Bible you use now doesn't mean it didn't used to be. Gods word wasn't good enough the first time around you had to give it a update
So, how am I confused?

Oy, vey!

 

[HosannaHM]

I do see your point and that was a good comeback - but no, that's not a fair assessment. The difference is "the Love of G-d." Really, we shouldn't even use the word Love" in English, because what we mean is so foreign and that word is so common. There are those who claim Jesus did this very thing when using "agape," as it wasn't used or even well-defined. I'm certainly no Greek scholar so I won't opine about that, but it is one way of making the point ...

Love might not be the most powerful word in english, but Grace may be a bit more sufficient

 

[Yardstick]

Our scholars have deduced five purposes/goals of the law:

- preservation of religion
- preservation of life
- preservation of intellect
- preservation of wealth
- preservation of lineage/honor

I've seen a three point version that combines some of these together mentioned by Jewish sages regarding Torah law.

One shaikh once told us that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is one way to look at these same goals, with life = 'life'... religion = 'liberty' (freedom of choice)... and intellect, wealth, and honor all falling under 'pursuit of happiness'. That was his way of looking at it anyway.

Thank you for your response. This was helpful.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

My thoughts exactly. This is why I don't comprehend your disdain for what you refer to as "American Evangelicalism." (Or something) There's none of that.

LOL.

Are you serious? Is this really some case of selective blindness?

Others have already given you a list of typical "values" and behaviours commonly exhibited by fundamentalist/evangelical Christians in the United States, and your response was always the same: "Nuh-uh, that's not TRUE Christianity. It's an addendum that's got nothing to do with their religious affiliation."

Well then, why is it that it's pretty much ONLY these groups who pursue these agendas? You won't find too many Non-Fundamentalists trying to have their creation myth taught as fact in science classes, or insisting that homosexuals ought to be discriminized against (preferably even prosecuted for "Sodomy"), or proclaiming that pop culture and the media are controlled by an evil leftist conspiracy trying to turn God's Own Country into a lewd harem of sexually perverted drug addicts.

 

[Arthra]

One of the things I value within Christianity is its simplicity. Essentially there is one rule, the golden rule. Love God and your neighbor. Everything else can be summed up in that one rule. Don't kill, cheat, lie, etc. But it seems in both Islam, and Ba'hai many other laws were added. No drinking, wear this, say these things here. Why is this necessary, especially when they aren't relevant to the golden rule?


As a disclaimer, I'm not interested in attacking anyones faith. It's simply something I've never understood.

Thanks for your post.. Sorry I overlooked the thread until now but I'd be happy to respond to your post.

I'm not speaking for Islam.. but only as a Baha'i.

The Kitab-i-Aqdas which Baha'u'llah revealed around 1871 in Akka is the book that has the laws and ordinances of the Baha'i Faith.

An authorized translation in English was available in 1992.

It is not a large book as books go consisting of seventy two pages. So the ordinances of our Faith is contained in a very small book compared to say the books of canon law in traditional Christianity or say the Buddhist Monastic Code, the Laws of Manu, the Sharia codes, Halakha and so on..

Not all the ordinances of the Kitab-i-Aqdas are operable..that is, they have yet to be instituted as yet as they are meant for a future time for larger Baha'i communities.

The "Golden Rule":

"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the Law and the prophets."

(Matthew 7:12 RSV)

goes a bit further in the Baha'i Writings:

"Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself."

It seems Yardstick that you have a concern about the Baha'i law to abstain from alcohol.. Baha'is do not drink alcohol..

We can use it as a solvent or cleanser..or maybe as a fuel.

If it's prescribed by a doctor it can be used as a medicine, but other wise it is forbidden for us.

There are cases in the Bible where people abstained from wine:

6:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 6:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

(King James Bible, Numbers)

Also many Christians abstain from alcoholic beverages..ever heard of the Temperance Movement? My grandmother a Methodist was a Prohibitionist.

 

[b&wpac7]

6:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 6:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Of course, that was only for those who took the Nazarite vow. In many of our practices it is customary to have wine.

 

[Yardstick]

Thanks for your post.. Sorry I overlooked the thread until now but I'd be happy to respond to your post.

I'm not speaking for Islam.. but only as a Baha'i.

The Kitab-i-Aqdas which Baha'u'llah revealed around 1871 in Akka is the book that has the laws and ordinances of the Baha'i Faith.

An authorized version in English was available in 1992.

It is not a large book as books go consisting of seventy two pages. So the ordinances of our Faith is contained in a very small book compared to say the books of canon law in traditional Christianity or say the Buddhist Monastic Code, the Laws of Manu, the Sharia codes, Halakha and so on..

Not all the ordinances of the Kitab-i-Aqdas are operable..that is, they have yet to be instituted as yet as they are meant for a future time for larger Baha'i communities.

The "Golden Rule":

"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the Law and the prophets."

(Matthew 7:12 RSV)

goes a bit further in the Baha'i Writings:

"Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself."

It seems Yardstick that you have a concern about the Baha'i law to abstain from alcohol.. Baha'is do not drink alcohol.. We can use it as a solvent or cleanser.. If it's prescribed by a doctor it can be used as a medicine, but other wise it is forbidden for us.

There are cases in the Bible where people abstained from wine:

6:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 6:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

(King James Bible, Numbers)

Also many Christians abstain from alcoholic beverages..ever heard of the Temperance movement? My grandmother a Methodist was a prohibitionist.

Thank you for your response. Why do you feel it is necessary to have more laws than:

"Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself."

As you've stated, Jesus tells us that this rule contains within it everything we need. Do the Ba'hai's disagree?

I brought up alcohol because it seemed like a good example. The majority of people are able to drink alcohol without abusing it, it's used in my Church, Jesus drank it, Red Wine has health benefits, plus I'm a home winemaker. It doesn't really make sense to me to ban it in light of these facts. Unless it can be demonstrated to go against the golden rule. (Which in fact in certain cases I'm sure it can be.)

It would make more sense to me to ban soda than wine!

 

[JJWhite]

One verse in the Qur'an states: “They ask you (Muhammad) regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major harm, and there is some benefit for men, but the harm of them is far greater than benefit.”

 

[Yardstick]

One verse in the Qur'an states: “They ask you (Muhammad) regarding wine and gambling. Say, in both of them is major harm, and there is some benefit for men, but the harm of them is far greater than benefit.”

I suppose the problem for me than, is that I simply haven't had that experience.

 

[JJWhite]

Drinking alcohol was one thing that was prohibited through stages (over years) during Prophet Muhammad's lifetime.. I think it was prohibited in four stages, and the alcohol issue is one of the few examples where abrogation of earlier Qur'aanic rulings is clearly stated. The fact that it wasn't prohibited quickly seems to indicate to me that this was a new rule being introduced in 'Islam'.

 

[b&wpac7]

I suppose the problem for me than, is that I simply haven't had that experience.

I usually go with the idea that moderation is the key. A glass of wine with dinner isn't bad.

 

[awitch]

There are cases in the Bible where people abstained from wine:

6:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 6:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

If the Westboro Baptist Church ever comes to New Jersey, I will stand with them holding a sign that says "God hates raisins!" and quote that verse.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Aceto Balsamico is an abomination?
Raisins are evil?

Wow. And yet there are still people who'd insist that these are not random cultural taboos like the ones you can find in other places...

 

[b&wpac7]

Aceto Balsamico is an abomination?
Raisins are evil?

Wow. And yet there are still people who'd insist that these are not random cultural taboos like the ones you can find in other places...

These things only applied to those who took the vow and I didn't see it say anywhere that it was an abomination.

 

[b&wpac7]

I'm not saying your cultural taboo comment is wrong, just if you're going to make fun of it at least get it right.

 

[Yardstick]

Those are rules for a particular religious order, the Nazarites. It has nothing to do with cultural taboos. It's a sacrafice made by those who choose to be apart of that particular order. Would you suggest that a Fransiscan monk taking a vow of poverty is a 'random cultural taboo?'

 

[awitch]

These things only applied to those who took the vow and I didn't see it say anywhere that it was an abomination.

Not to go to far off topic, but for those who did take the vow, what's wrong with raisins?

 

[HosannaHM]

Sounds like a culture DEBATE on this thread to me lol

 

[b&wpac7]

Not to go to far off topic, but for those who did take the vow, what's wrong with raisins?

Well, it seems to be a general prohibition against grape products. There were other things involved like not cutting hair and such. I don't think it had to do with anything being wrong with grapes or raisins, just that these people were vowing to devote themselves to God and this was a way of showing that devotion.

I wouldn't have taken such a vow.